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yongsaver

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Let’s say u have 250k in SA. 50k is by cash top up, the remaining is by cpf contribution from work, oa transfer to sa and interests Then this year u turn 55. 181k will be transfer to RA.

In this case, the 181k u transferred, how much of it comprises of the 50k by cash top up?

While SA can go beyond the FRS, top ups with cash and OA transfer is limited by FRS. Meaning your top up and OA trans was done while FRS has not been reached. i am guessing they should base it on First in First to get transferred to RA.
 

yongsaver

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Let me attempt to answer this and experts can feel free to correct me so that everybody can learn together.

CPF differentiates between top ups and contributions. Under RSTU, you can do cash top-up to SA, transfers from OA to SA, transfer from spouse/family member -there are rules for both the recipient and transferor on the amount that can be transferred. Current limit for top up to SA for recipient is Current FRS - SA balance - amount used for CPF-IS (SA).

For contributions, there is an annual CPF limit of $37,740 across all accounts. You may receive employment contributions (both employer and employee) or VC as self-employed. There is no limit other than the annual limit and you need to contribute to all 3 accounts based on the contribution rates by age groups. In other words, from contributions alone, it is technically possible for SA balance to exceed FRS.

Now let's hear from the experts. CPF is really complicated to understand...

Yes. SA can definitely exceed FRS. In fact when it does so, interest from SA alone is more than enough to keep in tandem with the yearly increase in the FRS amount.
 

terence2112

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Let’s say u have 250k in SA. 50k is by cash top up, the remaining is by cpf contribution from work, oa transfer to sa and interests Then this year u turn 55. 181k will be transfer to RA.

In this case, the 181k u transferred, how much of it comprises of the 50k by cash top up?

The 50k will be taken to account for the FRS when you turn 55, cause that was the whole point of the topping up, which is to cater for your retirement.
After which should be the OA to SA transfer, then the remaining from the SA balance, then OA is the last resort.
 

Thoreldan

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Pls pardon me.. say same example but different question

250k in sa, 50k via cash top up.
Frs is 181k.

Lets say i reach 55 this yr. The amt i can withdraw is still (250k - 181k) 69k, correct?

Or does the 50k cash top up changes the equation?
 

zoneguard

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250k in sa, 50k via cash top up.
Frs is 181k.

Lets say i reach 55 this yr. The amt i can withdraw is still (250k - 181k) 69k, correct?

Or does the 50k cash top up changes the equation?

So FRS in RA of 181k will be formed from 50k of SA from cash top up and 131k of SA. SA balance of 250k-181k = 69k may be withdrawn.

That's my understanding. BUT CPF is darn complicated and I also don't know if there's any other rule in the CPF rule book to disallow the withdrawal...
 

Thoreldan

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So FRS in RA of 181k will be formed from 50k of SA from cash top up and 131k of SA. SA balance of 250k-181k = 69k may be withdrawn.

That's my understanding. BUT CPF is darn complicated and I also don't know if there's any other rule in the CPF rule book to disallow the withdrawal...

Thks bro 👍
 

Utonian

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Pls pardon me.. say same example but different question

250k in sa, 50k via cash top up.
Frs is 181k.

Lets say i reach 55 this yr. The amt i can withdraw is still (250k - 181k) 69k, correct?

Or does the 50k cash top up changes the equation?
This should be correct if you are leaving FRS in the RA.

From CPF FAQ:
You can withdraw your Special Account and Ordinary Account savings after setting aside your Full Retirement Sum in your Retirement Account. The Full Retirement Sum can be set aside fully with cash, or with cash (i.e. at least the Basic Retirement Sum) and property.

The cash top 50k only matters if you are only planning to keep BRS

From CPF FAQ:
You may also withdraw your Retirement Account savings (excluding top-up monies, government grants, and interest earned) above your Basic Retirement Sum if you own a property.
 

elf108

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Best to apply SA shielding method before RA form ?
 

terence2112

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So FRS in RA of 181k will be formed from 50k of SA from cash top up and 131k of SA. SA balance of 250k-181k = 69k may be withdrawn.

That's my understanding. BUT CPF is darn complicated and I also don't know if there's any other rule in the CPF rule book to disallow the withdrawal...

Yes, this is right.
Just remember The Central theme for all CPF schemes is geared towards one thing and one thing only, to have your FRS when you turn 55.

There should be more education on this. If One knows the end point, one should think how to get there at an early stage.
 

BBCWatcher

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Best to apply SA shielding method before RA form ?
Yes, that's advisable as long as your Retirement Account still gets decently funded (or better) and you're going to keep the "shielded" SA dollars in your SA for at least several months. There's a cost involved with shielding (loss of 4% SA interest for at least one month on the shielded amount), and it takes a little time to recover that loss then start profiting.

I've seen a few areas of confusion, so let me lay out some simple facts in no particular order:

1. If you plan to keep the Full Retirement Sum in your Retirement Account, it never matters how your Special Account was funded (whether via cash top ups or other sources). The cash top up distinction only ever matters (IF it matters) if/when you're trying to withdraw funds from your Retirement Account after age 55.

I don't know about anyone else, but my plan is not to be poor. So I'm not at all interested in reducing my 4% interest earning Retirement Account below the Full Retirement Sum. (Rather the opposite.) I don't plan to stab myself in the eye financially speaking, so I don't worry very much about limitations on my ability to stab myself in the eye. But if your plan is to raid your own Retirement Account and drop it down as low as it'll go (or lower if you could), then yes, maybe you should worry about the particular mechanisms you use to fund your Special Account.

2. If you're below age 55 you can slam as many dollars into your Special Account as you wish, even in one go, up to the Full Retirement Sum. In fact, if you're a Singaporean citizen newborn (i.e. a CPF member) and you have a great aunt who wants to deposit S$181,000 (the 2020 Full Retirement Sum) into your Special Account as soon as you have a "T" birth certificate number (your NRIC), she can -- that's allowed.

3. There is no separate limit to how high your Special Account can go. Compulsory contributions continue to stream in, apportioned according to the standard allocation rules for your age bracket. You can also make "all three account" Voluntary Contributions ("VCs") as long as they fit within the CPF Annual Limit.

4. It's fairly rare, but it is technically possible to work for two employers in Singapore, get two salaries (plus two streams of variable pay), and have two streams of compulsory contributions each totaling $37,740 (the CPF Annual Limit). Or maybe even three salaries. Usually the employers don't like that, but it is technically possible.

5. While tax relief on annual $7,000 Special Account top ups are nice, 4% interest earlier and compounded annually is usually even nicer. Run the numbers, but usually you're going to do better slamming surplus dollars (such as surplus OA dollars) into your SA sooner rather than later. (And actually I suggest collecting your MediSave top up tax reliefs first since those have to fit within the tighter CPF Annual Limit and Basic Healthcare Sum, and since MediSave dollars can be useful at any/every age.)
 

vsvs24

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People dun know what they dun know!

I parked my emergency funds in DBS Multiplier, earning up to 3.5%pa easily!

I parked my longer term funds in WL (mthly autopilot savings) giving me 4-5% pa compounded, and CPF more than 2.5%

Dun put your capital as risk just to get higher returns, if these are emergency funds.

Dun compare chicken and duck!

(this is not CPF related topic)

What is WL ?
 

Squaredot

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I forgot to mention, another important consideration why I will choose Basic CPF Life Plan: I can convert it into a "CI policy" which gives me more payout anytime I want, for treatment, enjoy my last days, etc, upon confirmation of terminal illness or tpd. Standard/Escalating - no way, just compare the bequest to be given to bene, in this case will be yourself.

hi, i don't understand this part.
Do u mind explaining more? Thanks.
 

maple96

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hi, i don't understand this part.
Do u mind explaining more? Thanks.

Sorry, I already said I will not participate in any CPF discussions. If u asked earlier in the other thread, I might answer.

But dun worry, u still have a long way to go, before u reach 65, ask me again.
 

yongsaver

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hi, i don't understand this part.
Do u mind explaining more? Thanks.

what he/she means is if kanna terminal illness/critical illness, can request to take out balance unused CPF/bequest amount which is higher compared to the other 2 plans over time.
 

yongsaver

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Yes, that's advisable as long as your Retirement Account still gets decently funded (or better) and you're going to keep the "shielded" SA dollars in your SA for at least several months. There's a cost involved with shielding (loss of 4% SA interest for at least one month on the shielded amount), and it takes a little time to recover that loss then start profiting.

I've seen a few areas of confusion, so let me lay out some simple facts in no particular order:

1. If you plan to keep the Full Retirement Sum in your Retirement Account, it never matters how your Special Account was funded (whether via cash top ups or other sources). The cash top up distinction only ever matters (IF it matters) if/when you're trying to withdraw funds from your Retirement Account after age 55.

I don't know about anyone else, but my plan is not to be poor. So I'm not at all interested in reducing my 4% interest earning Retirement Account below the Full Retirement Sum. (Rather the opposite.) I don't plan to stab myself in the eye financially speaking, so I don't worry very much about limitations on my ability to stab myself in the eye. But if your plan is to raid your own Retirement Account and drop it down as low as it'll go (or lower if you could), then yes, maybe you should worry about the particular mechanisms you use to fund your Special Account.

2. If you're below age 55 you can slam as many dollars into your Special Account as you wish, even in one go, up to the Full Retirement Sum. In fact, if you're a Singaporean citizen newborn (i.e. a CPF member) and you have a great aunt who wants to deposit S$181,000 (the 2020 Full Retirement Sum) into your Special Account as soon as you have a "T" birth certificate number (your NRIC), she can -- that's allowed.

3. There is no separate limit to how high your Special Account can go. Compulsory contributions continue to stream in, apportioned according to the standard allocation rules for your age bracket. You can also make "all three account" Voluntary Contributions ("VCs") as long as they fit within the CPF Annual Limit.

4. It's fairly rare, but it is technically possible to work for two employers in Singapore, get two salaries (plus two streams of variable pay), and have two streams of compulsory contributions each totaling $37,740 (the CPF Annual Limit). Or maybe even three salaries. Usually the employers don't like that, but it is technically possible.

5. While tax relief on annual $7,000 Special Account top ups are nice, 4% interest earlier and compounded annually is usually even nicer. Run the numbers, but usually you're going to do better slamming surplus dollars (such as surplus OA dollars) into your SA sooner rather than later. (And actually I suggest collecting your MediSave top up tax reliefs first since those have to fit within the tighter CPF Annual Limit and Basic Healthcare Sum, and since MediSave dollars can be useful at any/every age.)

bro. i am always amazed by your 'aunt agony' skills. :D Its a compliment by the way hor.
 

vsvs24

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I am lucky to have bought whole life insurance policies (death, tpd, CI) when I was young. I dun need these insurance covers now, but since the returns are good, I continue to pay mthly premiums, until it is time for me to cashout. Every year, I get 'interest" payout of 4-5% but "reinvested" to get compounded returns.

Thanks.......
 

peppermint7

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bro. i am always amazed by your 'aunt agony' skills. :D Its a compliment by the way hor.

I know shiny things is a Male cos I googled saw his pic. But how u know BBCW is a Male? I googled but can't find BBCW pic..
 

peppermint7

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Sorry, I already said I will not participate in any CPF discussions. If u asked earlier in the other thread, I might answer.

But dun worry, u still have a long way to go, before u reach 65, ask me again.


Maple thanks for your sharing. I always learn new things from you and all others sharing and teaching us here freely :)
I am CPFidiot and am slow to comprehend everything u all wrote at times. I happen to be a slow learner in this aspect. I will try my best to keep up. (Hopefully I don't wait until myself 65 then reach the understanding)

Please feel free to continue to correct my thoughts if I have input wrongly. I am very grateful you guys/gals are willing to share and correct us along the way.
 

peppermint7

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Yes, this is right.
Just remember The Central theme for all CPF schemes is geared towards one thing and one thing only, to have your FRS when you turn 55.

There should be more education on this. If One knows the end point, one should think how to get there at an early stage.

If only CPF board can keep it simple. Then there will not be endless discussion
 
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