CPF Easy Info Thread. :)

w1rbelw1nd

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Not really. CPF-OA has a list of restrictions for investment. Cash has unlimited (but also susceptible to scams), though most would go TD ameritrade/charles swab etc brokers to buy overseas stock instead. So cash is still king imho.

Alright, I think I get your point. People (even I) still like to anchor their thoughts around that option of 2.5% interest around your CPF as our "cash/bond holdings". If its already in that taking away that option may be viewed as being sub-optimal.

Back to the point about rebalancing, I guess withdrawing is fine, but just quickly get it invested in equities? Eventually some part of the bond holdings will have to be in made up of cash accounts, as pointed out.

These are interesting discussions, will be fun if someone actually shares how they implement it and also share other considerations.
 

nyl3v3

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hello experts,
i need some advice for my aunt who doesn't have a lot of monies in her cpf accounts. so far, what i read from money mind, most of the time are those who have lotsa monies (in cash/cpf) and i can't find much info about ppl who have little in their cpf accounts online too. hope i can get some help from you guys if you don't mind helping.

my aunt is 62 this year.
- did not hit the all those retirement sum when she turned 55.
- currently, she has less than 20k in her OA and RA accounts.

- booked a 2 room flexi flat (around 100k for 35-40 years lease) which will be ready in 2022 when she turns 65.
- i am hoping that she would sell her current 5-room flat around 450k when she's about to get the keys to her new place.
- she has paid off her housing loan for this 5rm flat.
- cpf sum and accrued interest used was about 60k so far.
- she will get silver housing bonus when she sells her place and moves into the new one in time to come.

what would you guys suggest her to do for her to live less of a worry for the rest of her life? would you guys suggest for her to park all her monies into the RA? or just like basic, full or enhanced retirement sum? i would assume she should do standard payout plan so she can have a decent sum for herself monthly.

she kinda had a hard life, being a widow and her children are always out to get whatever monies she has so i would really like to help her out here. thank you in advance for your input. hope i didn't leave out any crucial info for discussion.
 
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polyglob

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So finally u got your answer or still no answer?

The current answer as I understand it:

Don't use CPF only as the bond part of my stocks+bond portfolio because there are various restrictions when rebalancing into CPF. Having a separate bond holding built from cash will make the rebalancing mechanics easier.
 

Value.Matrix

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hello experts,
i need some advice for my aunt who doesn't have a lot of monies in her cpf accounts. so far, what i read from money mind, most of the time are those who have lotsa monies (in cash/cpf) and i can't find much info about ppl who have little in their cpf accounts online too. hope i can get some help from you guys if you don't mind helping.

my aunt is 62 this year.
- did not hit the all those retirement sum when she turned 55.
- currently, she has less than 20k in her OA and RA accounts.

- booked a 2 room flexi flat (around 100k for 35-40 years lease) which will be ready in 2022 when she turns 65.
- i am hoping that she would sell her current 5-room flat around 450k when she's about to get the keys to her new place.
- she has paid off her housing loan for this 5rm flat.
- cpf sum and accrued interest used was about 60k so far.
- she will get silver housing bonus when she sells her place and moves into the new one in time to come.

what would you guys suggest her to do for her to live less of a worry for the rest of her life? would you guys suggest for her to park all her monies into the RA? or just like basic, full or enhanced retirement sum? i would assume she should do standard payout plan so she can have a decent sum for herself monthly.

she kinda had a hard life, being a widow and her children are always out to get whatever monies she has so i would really like to help her out here. thank you in advance for your input. hope i didn't leave out any crucial info for discussion.

Sounds like my mother scenario too. It depends on her daily monies required. If really do not want to worry, she can go up to the enhanced retirement sum (ERS) and choose escalating plan when she turns 65. If the payouts are enough, she should be set for life without much worries.

The price of the 2room flexi, depending on location, should be about $130,000 i believe.

For her kids wise issues, nobody can help, except CPF which can lock up her monies. But she will be "scolded for letting cpf eat her money" if she chose ERS and cpf life (because of the silver bonus) Since she will likely be on RSS instead had she not taken the bonus.

She will have a bit of lump sum about $50k. So if she wants, can settle her own funeral arrangements and all.
 

Value.Matrix

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Alright, I think I get your point. People (even I) still like to anchor their thoughts around that option of 2.5% interest around your CPF as our "cash/bond holdings". If its already in that taking away that option may be viewed as being sub-optimal.

Back to the point about rebalancing, I guess withdrawing is fine, but just quickly get it invested in equities? Eventually some part of the bond holdings will have to be in made up of cash accounts, as pointed out.

These are interesting discussions, will be fun if someone actually shares how they implement it and also share other considerations.

I can share traded annuities but that would open another can of worms. Would it be better to diversify across different bonds or buy a bond fund instead for it. For MAS regulated entities.
 

w1rbelw1nd

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I can share traded annuities but that would open another can of worms. Would it be better to diversify across different bonds or buy a bond fund instead for it. For MAS regulated entities.

I know what's an annuity but whats traded annuities?

Anyone looked at how the Endowus SGD hedged PIMCO funds compare against MBH, A35 and the USD QL2/QL3 traded on SGX?

Should these PIMCO funds be considered as a viable alternative to the sad, limited options that we have?
 

Value.Matrix

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I know what's an annuity but whats traded annuities?

Anyone looked at how the Endowus SGD hedged PIMCO funds compare against MBH, A35 and the USD QL2/QL3 traded on SGX?

Should these PIMCO funds be considered as a viable alternative to the sad, limited options that we have?

https://www.ft.com/content/e4cf6e48-07cd-11e6-a623-b84d06a39ec2

Just like traded endowments.
 

Okenba

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hello experts,
i need some advice for my aunt who doesn't have a lot of monies in her cpf accounts. so far, what i read from money mind, most of the time are those who have lotsa monies (in cash/cpf) and i can't find much info about ppl who have little in their cpf accounts online too. hope i can get some help from you guys if you don't mind helping.

my aunt is 62 this year.
- did not hit the all those retirement sum when she turned 55.
- currently, she has less than 20k in her OA and RA accounts.

- booked a 2 room flexi flat (around 100k for 35-40 years lease) which will be ready in 2022 when she turns 65.
- i am hoping that she would sell her current 5-room flat around 450k when she's about to get the keys to her new place.
- she has paid off her housing loan for this 5rm flat.
- cpf sum and accrued interest used was about 60k so far.
- she will get silver housing bonus when she sells her place and moves into the new one in time to come.

what would you guys suggest her to do for her to live less of a worry for the rest of her life? would you guys suggest for her to park all her monies into the RA? or just like basic, full or enhanced retirement sum? i would assume she should do standard payout plan so she can have a decent sum for herself monthly.

she kinda had a hard life, being a widow and her children are always out to get whatever monies she has so i would really like to help her out here. thank you in advance for your input. hope i didn't leave out any crucial info for discussion.

The 5room should bring a tidy sum. I would suggest putting as much of it into RA as she can so that she gets a steady sum to live on and so that anyone looking for her for money won't be able to siphon off a huge sum at one go.
 

nyl3v3

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Sounds like my mother scenario too. It depends on her daily monies required. If really do not want to worry, she can go up to the enhanced retirement sum (ERS) and choose escalating plan when she turns 65. If the payouts are enough, she should be set for life without much worries.

The price of the 2room flexi, depending on location, should be about $130,000 i believe.

For her kids wise issues, nobody can help, except CPF which can lock up her monies. But she will be "scolded for letting cpf eat her money" if she chose ERS and cpf life (because of the silver bonus) Since she will likely be on RSS instead had she not taken the bonus.

She will have a bit of lump sum about $50k. So if she wants, can settle her own funeral arrangements and all.

just want to know why you advised to take up escalating payout? the difference between standard and escalating is one is level and the other is increasing right? thank you!
 

nyl3v3

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The 5room should bring a tidy sum. I would suggest putting as much of it into RA as she can so that she gets a steady sum to live on and so that anyone looking for her for money won't be able to siphon off a huge sum at one go.

yah that's what i thought too. it's just that i see there are so many suggestions here in this thread in managing monies, so i thought of trying my luck to pick the brains here for opinions. i guess my fam will let her know to keep as much money in RA and leave just a little cash for emergency use.
 

maple96

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yah that's what i thought too. it's just that i see there are so many suggestions here in this thread in managing monies, so i thought of trying my luck to pick the brains here for opinions. i guess my fam will let her know to keep as much money in RA and leave just a little cash for emergency use.

Based her age, she is likely to be under RSS, not CPF Life.

If I were under RSS, and has so much money as she has (after she disposed her flat), and I do not think I can live past 90 (based on family history), I will stick to RSS. RSS will let her withdraw (payout) from 65 until 90. If I do not spend all the mthly payout, I will just dump it back to RA (if still got ERS limit), this will increase future mthly payout.

Leave sufficient monies in OA, treat it like a high interest savings bank account, for emergency use. She cannot touch RA in times of emergency, so dun ask her go eat grass if she does not have sufficient emergency funds for survival. CPFB unlikely to help her even she got lots of monies in RA.

If she thinks she will live past 90, then explore CPF Life. Choose Standard Plan if she does not want to give any bequest when she die.

Dun forget to update her CPF nominations.

U did not mention if she has monies in MA. Put some monies there to earn 4% interest to pay for premiums and for emergency medical expenses if she only has medishield life.

Dun forget teach her to how to use internet to transfer monies from bank to CPF or u continue to help her when her brain deterioriates? LPA?

Edit: Ok I overlooked the SHB as value matrix pointed out, so likely she has no choice but join CPF Life. She needs to work out how much she has left after topping most of her sales proceeds into RA.

I will choose standard plan based on her situation to have a higher payout at 65, enjoy while she still can.
 
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Value.Matrix

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just want to know why you advised to take up escalating payout? the difference between standard and escalating is one is level and the other is increasing right? thank you!

Its for no frills thinking (especially if shes not into leaving a legacy). Its a selfish act to ensure she will not run out of money even pass age 90 or 100. Update: it is also because she will be taking the silver housing bonus. Which force her to take up cpf life.

At current drawdown rate for RSS, it will be revised to end by 90 years old.

But in order for 1 to be right, there have to be parameters to understand her objective. Thats why i try my best to give suggestions based on current situation.

Maple96 is also right for RSS. Its how you want the retirement to be done.
 

BBCWatcher

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Its for no frills thinking (especially if shes not into leaving a legacy).
No, she can certainly leave a legacy: potentially as much as every other scrap of wealth she has, as soon as her 65th birthday if she wishes. They're called "lifetime gifts," and escalating guaranteed life annuities make it hugely easier to give away as much as everything else, as early as right away (annuity payout start).

Its a selfish act to ensure she will not run out of money even pass age 90 or 100.
No, that's the opposite of selfish. With an escalating CPF LIFE payout stream and a modest 2 room HDB unit (with sufficient leasehold remaining) she's guaranteeing only that her basic lifestyle needs are taken care of, that she's never an enormous burden on her children or other loved ones, and then she's free to give away as much as all other wealth just as soon as the annuity payouts start.

There's also zero "competence risk." This is the government as the paying agent -- an extremely high quality, AAA-rated one with a high quality, convertible currency. No matter what she does in the future in terms of her own investment decisions -- she could go bonkers and "invest" in OneCoin -- as long as the Singapore government exists her basic lifestyle will be well defended every month for life. The government will make sure of it.

Said another way, an escalating, guaranteed life annuity is the strongest longevity insurance. If you and your loved ones want the utmost peace of mind and financial security -- and the freedom to enjoy life together with bigger and earlier lifetime gifts -- then this is how you do it. It's effectively like the trust fund construct that wealthy families so highly value for each of their members, but it's available in some measure to middle class Singaporeans from the government. And it's a lovely, powerful thing.
 
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nyl3v3

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Based her age, she is likely to be under RSS, not CPF Life.

If I were under RSS, and has so much money as she has (after she disposed her flat), and I do not think I can live past 90 (based on family history), I will stick to RSS. RSS will let her withdraw (payout) from 65 until 90. If I do not spend all the mthly payout, I will just dump it back to RA (if still got ERS limit), this will increase future mthly payout.

Leave sufficient monies in OA, treat it like a high interest savings bank account, for emergency use. She cannot touch RA in times of emergency, so dun ask her go eat grass if she does not have sufficient emergency funds for survival. CPFB unlikely to help her even she got lots of monies in RA.

If she thinks she will live past 90, then explore CPF Life. Choose Standard Plan if she does not want to give any bequest when she die.

Dun forget to update her CPF nominations.

U did not mention if she has monies in MA. Put some monies there to earn 4% interest to pay for premiums and for emergency medical expenses if she only has medishield life.

Dun forget teach her to how to use internet to transfer monies from bank to CPF or u continue to help her when her brain deterioriates? LPA?

Edit: Ok I overlooked the SHB as value matrix pointed out, so likely she has no choice but join CPF Life. She needs to work out how much she has left after topping most of her sales proceeds into RA.

I will choose standard plan based on her situation to have a higher payout at 65, enjoy while she still can.

Thank you Maple96 for your valuable input!

I have just checked with my mum and aunt. My aunt has about 25k in MA, is it feasible to top it all the way up to the basic healthcare sum when she sells away the house?

And yes, i overlooked the part about LPA, I will talk to my aunt about this arrangement too.

Its for no frills thinking (especially if shes not into leaving a legacy). Its a selfish act to ensure she will not run out of money even pass age 90 or 100. Update: it is also because she will be taking the silver housing bonus. Which force her to take up cpf life.

At current drawdown rate for RSS, it will be revised to end by 90 years old.

But in order for 1 to be right, there have to be parameters to understand her objective. Thats why i try my best to give suggestions based on current situation.

Maple96 is also right for RSS. Its how you want the retirement to be done.

Thanks Value.Matrix!

To Maple96 and Value.Matrix, since I saw a couple of replies suggesting RSS so I asked my mum and aunt about it too. Looks like if my aunt doesn't take up the silver housing bonus, she doesn't need to go for CPF Life, would you guys suggest RSS over CPF Life if she doesn't take up the bonus?

I calculated that if she sells her flat at 450k,
returns to her cpf account the accrued part of 60k
and pays 150k for new one.
She will have 240k left.

By then her OA+RA will have 80k and top up to the full retirement sum (200k maybe)?

then spare cash
1) top up to MA till basic healthcare sum
2) save about 6 months worth of emergency cash
3) remaining go to OA?

No, she can certainly leave a legacy: potentially as much as every other scrap of wealth she has, as soon as her 65th birthday if she wishes. They're called "lifetime gifts," and escalating guaranteed life annuities make it hugely easier to give away as much as everything else, as early as right away (annuity payout start).

No, that's the opposite of selfish. With an escalating CPF LIFE payout stream and a modest 2 room HDB unit (with sufficient leasehold remaining) she's guaranteeing only that her basic lifestyle needs are taken care of, that she's never an enormous burden on her children or other loved ones, and then she's free to give away as much as all other wealth just as soon as the annuity payouts start.

There's also zero "competence risk." This is the government as the paying agent -- an extremely high quality, AAA-rated one with a high quality, convertible currency. No matter what she does in the future in terms of her own investment decisions -- she could go bonkers and "invest" in OneCoin -- as long as the Singapore government exists her basic lifestyle will be well defended every month for life. The government will make sure of it.

Said another way, an escalating, guaranteed life annuity is the strongest longevity insurance. If you and your loved ones want the utmost peace of mind and financial security -- and the freedom to enjoy life together with bigger and earlier lifetime gifts -- then this is how you do it. It's effectively like the trust fund construct that wealthy families so highly value for each of their members, but it's available in some measure to middle class Singaporeans from the government. And it's a lovely, powerful thing.

Thanks BBCW, my aunt has two not so kind children who will make themselves visible whenever my aunt has monies and disappear whenever she is penniless. i don't think my mum wants her sister to be saving anything for her children, we are just looking at being self-sufficient for my aunt (be it daily expenses and if need be, medical costs).

my aunt doesn't foresee herself living beyond 90 actually so if possible, RSS might be a better choice for her.
 

Okenba

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BHS from next year is 60k so her flat should be able to top it up all the way.

You mentioned accrued interest to be paid back to CPF. I believe criteria to stay in RSS is only if CPF is less than 60k when she turns 65. So if you want RSS, you may be forced to sell only after she turns 65.

Personally, I'm not sure if it is worth the trouble. Perhaps you can run the figures to find out what the difference is between CPF life and RSS for her, considering loss of interest from putting the money into RA early, etc etc

Maybe get her to make an appt with CPF board and talk it through with them?
 

BBCWatcher

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Looks like if my aunt doesn't take up the silver housing bonus, she doesn't need to go for CPF Life, would you guys suggest RSS over CPF Life if she doesn't take up the bonus?
Wouldn't she be poorer if she doesn't take the bonus?

Thanks BBCW, my aunt has two not so kind children who will make themselves visible whenever my aunt has monies and disappear whenever she is penniless. i don't think my mum wants her sister to be saving anything for her children, we are just looking at being self-sufficient for my aunt (be it daily expenses and if need be, medical costs).
Thank goodness for CPF LIFE (esp. Escalating). But what she chooses to do with the rest of her wealth is up to her. She could give it to her favorite charity, for example.

my aunt doesn't foresee herself living beyond 90 actually so if possible, RSS might be a better choice for her.
Individuals are notoriously unreliable in assessing their own longevity, and statistically they underestimate it. Plus she'd lose out a bonus if she tries to gamble this way.

I'm with Okenba: keep it simple (and it probably is).
 

henrylbh

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hello experts,
my aunt is 62 this year.
- did not hit the all those retirement sum when she turned 55.
- currently, she has less than 20k in her OA and RA accounts.

- booked a 2 room flexi flat (around 100k for 35-40 years lease) which will be ready in 2022 when she turns 65.
- i am hoping that she would sell her current 5-room flat around 450k when she's about to get the keys to her new place.
- she has paid off her housing loan for this 5rm flat.
- cpf sum and accrued interest used was about 60k so far.
- she will get silver housing bonus when she sells her place and moves into the new one in time to come.

what would you guys suggest her to do for her to live less of a worry for the rest of her life? would you guys suggest for her to park all her monies into the RA? or just like basic, full or enhanced retirement sum? i would assume she should do standard payout plan so she can have a decent sum for herself monthly.

she kinda had a hard life, being a widow and her children are always out to get whatever monies she has so i would really like to help her out here. thank you in advance for your input. hope i didn't leave out any crucial info for discussion.

I will stick to the current flat until the picture is clear. To me, going for a flexi flat is not a good idea. It cannot be monetised. It's very expensive on per year per square foot basis. She has to plan her finance in a way that she will end up in old age home, since it appears her kids are not kins :s13:

No one can give a comprehensive advice. You did not say whether she is living alone in the 5rm flat, still working, her current living expenses, her health and whether she got any savings and whether she like to leave assets behind etc.
 

maple96

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BHS from next year is 60k so her flat should be able to top it up all the way.

You mentioned accrued interest to be paid back to CPF. I believe criteria to stay in RSS is only if CPF is less than 60k when she turns 65. So if you want RSS, you may be forced to sell only after she turns 65.

Personally, I'm not sure if it is worth the trouble. Perhaps you can run the figures to find out what the difference is between CPF life and RSS for her, considering loss of interest from putting the money into RA early, etc etc

Maybe get her to make an appt with CPF board and talk it through with them?

from CPF website:

You selected: Born before 1 January 1958

You are on the Retirement Sum Scheme and can receive monthly payouts starting from your payout eligibility age until your Retirement Account balances are exhausted.

Alternatively, you can choose to join CPF LIFE to enjoy a lifelong income. You can make your application to join CPF LIFE anytime between your payout eligibility age and one month before age 80.

My comments: he has to double confirm her birthdate.
 

henrylbh

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If she takes silver housing bonus, she will be forced to put money into RA (though not a bad thing) and she will be forced from RSS to CPF Life.

Sounds like she is entitled to quarterly SSS (as much as $750), the amount is according to flat type from age 65.
 
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