CPF Easy Info Thread. :)

[maple96]

You're comically wrong about this.
It has nothing to due with tax. The U.S. estate tax exemption for U.S. persons is US$11.4 million (2019), or unlimited between U.S. citizen spouses. There are very few households that would owe any U.S. estate tax.
Second, gifts in excess of US$15,000 per year are subtracted from the US$11.4 million exemption. Gifts are really not a way to avoid U.S. estate tax if it even applies.

There u go again, all your ranting and raving because of your bad comprehension/interpreting skills!

You are even more comical, u choose to jump into conclusion with yourself. Thanks for confirming you have to pay estate duty but dun owe because u are poor, managed to avoid/evade paying estate duty or any other income/related tax, that's your problem.

Many factors can influence how one run their lives and manage their finances. The country's regulations are one important influence. Eg. Many topup their/others' CPF (ie gifts) to get tax relief. So this year CPFB made record “revenue”.

No, you're really quite persistently dumb about this, sorry to say. The answer why lifetime gifts are so darn great is based on basic time value of money, a concept understood by sensible people east, west, north, AND south. The earlier you give somebody some money, the more useful it often is to that person. Money is certainly not less useful when given earlier.

My parents shower gifts/monies on me since I was born until I finished pre-u. I decided to support myself to complete varsity with an interest free loan. I give them 50% of my mthly salary when I started working. Twice a year, I will give them big angbaos. I also give the younger generation angbaos. Whenever I return from business trip, I will shower my mum with gifts she loves. While she was still strong/healthy, I brought her to tour China/Aussie. As she aged/weaken, I take care of her healthcare and daily needs, becoming her full time caregiver to help her enjoy her final years, the best way to caregive a dementia patient, paying all her medical needs till her last day. My dad had an “expensive hobby”, my sis funded it to let him enjoy his final years. That's our values/beliefs.

My wealthy friend bought a condo for her son when he got married, still doing his doctorate.

Every family is different.

You can test this basic concept with your electricity company. Ask them if they'd like to be paid by the deadline on your electric bill or 8 years later. And when they sensibly object to forcing them to wait 8 years to receive payment, then maybe you'll understand that earlier generosity is more generous.

I make sure I pay SP services on time/due date to avoid being cut-off from water and electricity supplies, we cannot live without. Now I pay up to 3 mths in advance, cos I can “earn 5% interest” putting the monies with SP services than putting it in the bank.

So what is your hidden agenda/motive? “Yang err fung lao”?

Dun talk rubbish, rubbish are matters that are irrelevant to the “author's (nyl3v3) real life case study”!

 

[Value.Matrix]

@nyl3v3 you can see how many of us have differing view. And the rest did state why they wish to have certain plans in place as opposed to others (basic, standard and escalating) because objective differs, yield (total) differs.

Just hope you are able to sift out what is most important in each plan (for each situation) and apply to your aunt situation. We do not have the complete full picture so thats what we advise.

Best to let your aunt know too (in case her children wants her to take basic and cause some great issue, and break your family dynamics and r/s if you value it too).
Good luck.

PS: SSS = silver support scheme (mom and cpf collaboration)

 

[BBCWatcher]

you pointed out that she has cpf as her only assets (through her sales of flat in 1-2 years time). if she can live comfortably and without having to worry about daily expenses or medical costs, that's already good enough. She has no ability to leave any assets (also no intention) for anyone from what we can see.

There's a difference between living "comfortably" now and being a potential, growing, significant financial burden on her loved ones.

I am also worried about having to get her parked everything into RA, just in case, she needs to pay for a surgery or what. Not too sure if MA can cover all the medical costs too.

Provided she's a citizen and stays in public hospital B2 ward or lower, yes, that'll be fine. If she has an Integrated Shield plan then she may be able to do a bit better than that.

Just that RSS, i assume she parks the Full Retirement Sum?

She can park up to the Enhanced Retirement Sum in her Retirement Account if she wishes.

If she's on CPF Life, because of SHB, she will also have to park FRS too? And choose standard payouts for sure.

No, the minimum if she pledges her home is the Basic Retirement Sum (or less if she has less). The FRS is not required.

The Standard Plan offers a fixed nominal payout. The real purchasing power of that payout amount will decrease for the rest of her life. As her sole source of income, that's a bad idea, unless you and her other loved ones are willing to provide her with ever increasing amounts of supplemental cash to support a stable lifestyle.

If she doesn't like the Escalating Plan, then she needs to have some other viable way to combat inflation. What's her other way -- what's the plan?

Thanks for confirming you have to pay estate duty but dun owe because u are poor, managed to avoid/evade paying estate duty or any other income/related tax, that's your problem.

Huh? That's incomprehensible.

 

[Okenba]

It's 55. She has less than 60k when she turned 55, so i think she's still on RSS unless she opts for CPF Life.

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/Members/Schemes/schemes/retirement/cpf-life

You will automatically be included in CPF LIFE to enjoy lifelong payouts if:
- You are a Singapore Citizen or Permanent Resident born in 1958 or after;
- have at least $60,000 in your Retirement Account six months before you reach your payout eligibility age (PEA).

If you are a Singaporean Citizen or Permanent Resident who does not meet the above requirements, you can still apply to join CPF LIFE and start receiving lifelong income, at any time between your payout eligibility age and one month before you turn 80 years old.

Its 65. But it doesn't matter cause her birthday is in 57, so yes she is on RSS unless and until she opts to join CPF Life.

In time to come when she sells her house, be it RSS or CPF Life, i should get her to do the following steps?

1) a sum of monies parked into RA
2) some monies in MA (enough to earn interest for annual premiums)
3) cash (emergency like six months)
4) the rest in OA?

Just that RSS, i assume she parks the Full Retirement Sum?

If she's on CPF Life, because of SHB, she will also have to park FRS too? And choose standard payouts for sure.

Do read up on RSS and CPF Life to know the difference and make the comparison.

I think the key differences are how much you get monthly and how long it lasts. How long it lasts is easy. CPF Life is for Life. RSS is (very recently) until 90 years old.

How much you get is more complicated. For CPF Life it depends on how much you put in, and which plan you opt for.
For RSS, I assume it is whatever you have in RA, projected with interest until 90yo, and divided through the years.

If the payouts are not too different for both schemes, I see little reason to opt for RSS over CPF life. *shrug*

 

[dork32]

I am an idiot...

BTW, I am not rich. Don't spread fake news. I have been jobless since my 40's. Really emo nao.

holding onto a job is does not mean being rich.

being out of job for 10 years and yet you have so much in cpf, you are quite well off.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Do read up on RSS and CPF Life to know the difference and make the comparison.

I think the key differences are how much you get monthly and how long it lasts. How long it lasts is easy. CPF Life is for Life. RSS is (very recently) until 90 years old.

You might have missed the Silver Housing Bonus (SHB) reference upthread. The SHB provides up to a whopping $20,000 in free money from the government. But you only get the SHB if you choose CPF LIFE. Of course that's a good deal; it's a stonking big pile of free money.

 

[Okenba]

You might have missed the Silver Housing Bonus (SHB) reference upthread. The SHB provides up to a whopping $20,000 in free money from the government. But you only get the SHB if you choose CPF LIFE. Of course that's a good deal; it's a stonking big pile of free money.

True.

So in essence, for RSS to be the better choice, it should be paying out minimally a full $20k more than CPF life.
In fact, at 4%pa (in RA), $20k works out to $50k over 90-65=25 years.

So $50k extra over 25 years. That is $2k more per year.
Which is about $166.67 more per mth.

So yeah, aunt should go crunch some numbers.

 

[BBCWatcher]

So in essence, for RSS to be the better choice, it should be paying out minimally a full $20k more than CPF life.

No, the $20,000 in free money is cash upfront, to do with as you wish. (Yes, you can plow it into CPF if you wish.) Paying out $20,000 more over the next XX years (plus incurring longevity risk) simply won't compensate enough.

There's just no way you'd pass up the $20,000 in free money, not if you're rational. It's a hell of a great deal.

 

[maple96]

It's 55. She has less than 60k when she turned 55, so i think she's still on RSS unless she opts for CPF Life.

Its 65. But it doesn't matter cause her birthday is in 57, so yes she is on RSS unless and until she opts to join CPF Life.

double confirmed, Okenba, u belong to the group of young and ignorant who recently accused an uncle of providing fake info when he complaint that CPF took his monies into CPF Life at 55 (at CPFB facebook page)! And CPFB never bothered to clarify!

Those who hit 55 before July 2015 are "forced" to join CPF Life at 55!

nyl3v3 is right, his/her auntie falls under RSS unless she opt to join CPF Life at or after 55 to get the join bonus which CPFB offered as "bait".

U can check and confirm her situation by looking at her CPF statement or online. If she is under CPF Life, it will show the amt she used to join and what CPF Life Plan she had chosen.

 

[maple96]

Huh? That's incomprehensible.

That's triple or more confirmation, u have bad comprehension skills

 

[maple96]

I am an idiot...

BTW, I am not rich. Don't spread fake news. I have been jobless since my 40's. Really emo nao.

holding onto a job is does not mean being rich.

being out of job for 10 years and yet you have so much in cpf, you are quite well off.

With 1m in CPF, he is not rich, then I am poor liao

 

[Okenba]

double confirmed, Okenba, u belong to the group of young and ignorant who recently accused an uncle of providing fake info when he complaint that CPF took his monies into CPF Life at 55 (at CPFB facebook page)! And CPFB never bothered to clarify!

Those who hit 55 before July 2015 are "forced" to join CPF Life at 55!

nyl3v3 is right, his/her auntie falls under RSS unless she opt to join CPF Life at or after 55 to get the join bonus which CPFB offered as "bait".

U can check and confirm her situation by looking at her CPF statement or online. If she is under CPF Life, it will show the amt she used to join and what CPF Life Plan she had chosen.

Fascinating. Please tell me my winning 4D number too!!

I'm just quoting the CPFB page. If you think they are lying about it, do let them know. Preferably, publicly. And then get yourself a lawyer too just in case.

 

[maple96]

Fascinating. Please tell me my winning 4D number too!!

I'm just quoting the CPFB page. If you think they are lying about it, do let them know. Preferably, publicly. And then get yourself a lawyer too just in case.

Another with bad comprehension skills Who is accusing CPFB of lying now?

Dun just quote blindly. What u see is the latest, it does not mean it applies to every old case!

Pls do proper research before u provide any advise, support your views

 

[Okenba]

Another with bad comprehension skills Who is accusing CPFB of lying now?

Dun just quote blindly. What u see is the latest, it does not mean it applies to every old case!

Pls do proper research before u provide any advise, support your views

Okay Boomer. =D

 

[nyl3v3]

double confirmed, Okenba, u belong to the group of young and ignorant who recently accused an uncle of providing fake info when he complaint that CPF took his monies into CPF Life at 55 (at CPFB facebook page)! And CPFB never bothered to clarify!

Those who hit 55 before July 2015 are "forced" to join CPF Life at 55!

nyl3v3 is right, his/her auntie falls under RSS unless she opt to join CPF Life at or after 55 to get the join bonus which CPFB offered as "bait".

U can check and confirm her situation by looking at her CPF statement or online. If she is under CPF Life, it will show the amt she used to join and what CPF Life Plan she had chosen.

yeap, I have just checked. No sign of CPF Life anywhere online for her account. Thank you, Maple96!

Fascinating. Please tell me my winning 4D number too!!

I'm just quoting the CPFB page. If you think they are lying about it, do let them know. Preferably, publicly. And then get yourself a lawyer too just in case.

Not to say I am siding with Maple96, but the CPFB website did indicate that it's 55 right?

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/members//schemes/schemes/retirement/retirement-sum-scheme
The first drop down shows it's turning 55... right? Am I missing out something here?

 

[Okenba]

Not to say I am siding with Maple96, but the CPFB website did indicate that it's 55 right?

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/members//schemes/schemes/retirement/retirement-sum-scheme
The first drop down shows it's turning 55... right? Am I missing out something here?

Not really relevant since she was born before 1958. But let's look at the page you linked.

To better mitigate longevity risks, the CPF LIFE Scheme introduced in 2009 provides a monthly income for as long as you live. You will join CPF LIFE if you are a Singapore Citizen or Permanent Resident born in 1958 or after, and have the following Retirement Account balances:

*You turned 55 between 1 January 2013 and 30 April 2016 *
- *At least $40,000 in your Retirement Account when you reach 55 years old; or
- At least $60,000 in your Retirement Account six months before you reach your payout eligibility age.


You turned 55 on 1 May 2016 and after
*At least $60,000 in your Retirement Account six months before you reach your payout eligibility age.

So the key date isn't when you turn 55.
It's when is your payout eligibility age. Which is 65.
For both groups, so long as you have >$60k in RA 6mths before you turn 65, you will be automatically included into CPF Life.

That's what I'm reading.

Take what you read with a pinch of salt. This is a public forum and who knows who is behind these handles. Check with CPFB for clarity.

And be wary of those with bad comprehension skills. =D

 

[maple96]

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/members//schemes/schemes/retirement/retirement-sum-scheme
The first drop down shows it's turning 55... right? Am I missing out something here?

I provide some history for better understanding.

CPFB changed the rules for joining CPF Life from 55 to 65. Those who hit 55 before July 2015 are forced to join CPF Life at 55.

Those born before 1958 fall under RSS. Those born after fall under above category ie forced to join CPF Life at 55.

Members under RSS were given join bonus to join CPF Life. So if your aunt did not opt to join CPF Life, she is still under RSS, as u confirmed with her CPF statement online. This is regardless of balance in RA.

Those who joined CPF Life at 55 were given an option to switch plans during a period (I forgot the exact period). Some who were aware and made the switch from Standard to Basic were granted the option to defer joining CPF Life to 65. These are the lucky ones.

All new cohorts who turned 55 after July 2015 only need to join CPF Life at 65 or opt to defer to 70.

So it is not simple to deduce the RSS/CPF Life status of the person just based on age/date of birth. Best is confirm with the latest CPF statement.

 

[maple96]

That's what I'm reading.

Take what you read with a pinch of salt. This is a public forum and who knows who is behind these handles. Check with CPFB for clarity.

And be wary of those with bad comprehension skills. =D

U are spot on!

Nobody should rely 100% on forum discussions without doing their own due diligence. U can get tips, guidelines, leads on what, where and how to start, to help u kick off your further research and discussions with the authorities and relatives. But please do not just rely on what is said here without further discussions/confirmations with the authorities.

I always write to CPFB to get double confirmation and clarifications.

Whatever suggestions people offer here, there might be hidden assumptions/motives which u might not know or they might not tell u, ie the suggestions might not work if those assumptions dun exist or apply to the case in point, or they have different value/belief systems, etc.

 

[Okenba]

U are spot on!

Nobody should rely 100% on forum discussions without doing their own due diligence. U can get tips, guidelines, leads on what, where and how to start, to help u kick off your further research and discussions with the authorities and relatives. But please do not just rely on what is said here without further discussions/confirmations with the authorities.

I always write to CPFB to get double confirmation and clarifications.

Whatever suggestions people offer here, there might be hidden assumptions/motives which u might not know or they might not tell u, ie the suggestions might not work if those assumptions dun exist or apply to the case in point, or they have different value/belief systems, etc.

Wonderful U-turn. Nicely done. Shows the depths of your experience. *clap*

 

[maple96]

Wonderful U-turn. Nicely done. Shows the depths of your experience. *clap*

It is simple common-sense!

I repeat what I have written here in the past:

Nobody will teach u the secret to making money if it works!

I have my own secret strategies which I will not share.