CPF Easy Info Thread. :)

[Value.Matrix]

Hi, if my RA has reached more than FRS, can I withdraw :-

1. Any amt , above FRS , any time ?
2. If I choose BFS amt for my CPF life plan , can I withdraw the bal fr my RA ? Anytime ?

I hv tried to browse thr CPF website but can't find the above ans. Anyone can help? Thanks !

Ask CPF for appointment. Then ask their manager to explain.

Our advice is read CPF FAQ. Need to know too many stuff, from your age, to property type for pledging and any RSTU done.

 

[tangent314]

Hi, if my RA has reached more than FRS, can I withdraw :-

1. Any amt , above FRS , any time ?
2. If I choose BFS amt for my CPF life plan , can I withdraw the bal fr my RA ? Anytime ?

I hv tried to browse thr CPF website but can't find the above ans. Anyone can help? Thanks !

All the details are here: https://www.cpf.gov.sg/Members/Schemes/schemes/retirement/withdrawals-of-cpf-savings-from-55

Just a summary of a few cases where you can withdraw from your RA:

1. At any time, you can withdraw $5000
2. At age 65, you can withdraw 20% (less any amount withdrawn using 1.)
3. Make a property pledge to withdraw the BRS amount (less any top ups you have made)

Typically though, if you need to make a withdrawal, you should look at OA/SA first

 

[JF123456]

All the details are here: https://www.cpf.gov.sg/Members/Schemes/schemes/retirement/withdrawals-of-cpf-savings-from-55

Just a summary of a few cases where you can withdraw from your RA:

1. At any time, you can withdraw $5000
2. At age 65, you can withdraw 20% (less any amount withdrawn using 1.)
3. Make a property pledge to withdraw the BRS amount (less any top ups you have made)

Typically though, if you need to make a withdrawal, you should look at OA/SA first

Thx.
I will reach 55 next year. OA+SA = 250K ; > 186K FRS .
I am looking at the flexibility of topping up CPF to ERS with cash as I am not working now.

My initial thot was to select BRS for CPF life plan ( even when my RA > FRS) , and leave the bal ( RA-BRS) in my RA acct, for me to withdraw as and when I want.
Apparently, this is impossible since at most I can withdraw is only RA-FRS once I reach 55, and only 20% of RA when reach 65yrs old.
Thou my cash can generate more interest if I do top up, but I will lose the flexibility for most of my top up cash.
I hv read somewhere in this forum ( been reading too much these few days that my mind is getting confused too ) that we can treat CPF like our saving bank once we reach 55yrs , as we can withdraw as much as we want , at any amt above FRS. So we can only do this, between 55yrs to 65yrs, as beyond this , only 20% of RA is allowed. Also, there is no way I can lower to BRS, unless I make use of my property.
Am I right now with this assumption ? Then I hv to reconsider my cash top top, as I really prefer my flexibility, rather than "locking my money".

 

[tangent314]

If you let us know how much you have in cash and MA now (since we only know your OA + SA), we can work out for you how to best use your topups, CPF Life and regular withdrawals so you can maximize your income from 55 onwards for the rest of your life.

Any whole life insurance policy that can be surrendered will also help.

Also, do you already have an integrated shield plan?

 

[JF123456]

I hv just made VC 37K recently .. OA 50K, SA 200K, MA 60K

Most of my current liquid assets are in FD : 200K
I hv a few insurrance policies ( GE/Pru/Aviva/ NTUC emdorment, moneyback, wholelife etc); some maturing next 1-2 years.
Yes, I too hv integrated shield plan.

I am hoping for flexibility in cash.. just in case I want to invest in property ( tog with my spouse, of course ).

Currently we own a private property, fully paid. But, we hv not refunded any amt used in our CPF acct for the property ... abt $500K for my CPF.

 

[henrylbh]

Thx.
I will reach 55 next year. OA+SA = 250K ; > 186K FRS .
I am looking at the flexibility of topping up CPF to ERS with cash as I am not working now.

My initial thot was to select BRS for CPF life plan ( even when my RA > FRS) , and leave the bal ( RA-BRS) in my RA acct, for me to withdraw as and when I want.
Apparently, this is impossible since at most I can withdraw is only RA-FRS once I reach 55, and only 20% of RA when reach 65yrs old.
Thou my cash can generate more interest if I do top up, but I will lose the flexibility for most of my top up cash.
I hv read somewhere in this forum ( been reading too much these few days that my mind is getting confused too ) that we can treat CPF like our saving bank once we reach 55yrs , as we can withdraw as much as we want , at any amt above FRS. So we can only do this, between 55yrs to 65yrs, as beyond this , only 20% of RA is allowed. Also, there is no way I can lower to BRS, unless I make use of my property.
Am I right now with this assumption ? Then I hv to reconsider my cash top top, as I really prefer my flexibility, rather than "locking my money".

At 55, your SA followed by OA will move to RA to meet FRS (186k). Any balance in SA followed by OA can be withdrawn at any time in any amount you wish.

You can also top up your RA up to ERS with the above balance SA followed by OA. OR, you can top up your RA up to ERS with cash.

At anytime from 55, you are allowed to withdraw half of FRS (determined at 55) from RA with property pledge/charge.

 

[tangent314]

I understand you wish to have some flexibility in cash, but I highly recommend setting some of it aside to make sure you are provided for FOR LIFE, so that no matter how much you screwed up, you will still get a nice payout every month for the rest of your life. The best way to ensure that, of course, is to make the most use of CPF Life from age 65, maximizing your SA at age 55, and plan your drawdown carefully between the age of 55 and 65.

So what you should so is to Shield your SA 1 month before the age of 55 (you can look up SA shielding through Google, there's a couple of threads here on this topic plus a couple of other blogs).

At age 55, your RA will be formed. $50k from OA + $40k from SA. Now immediately use cash to top up at least $91k to at least reach the FRS of $181k. Now you can drop the SA shield and have $160k in SA earning 4% interest. After which, you should then use $90.5k of cash to top your RA up to the ERS amount of $271.5k, leaving you with about $18.5 of spare cash.

You can withdraw as much money as you like from your SA as you like. $160k in SA allows you to withdraw about $1620 per month from age 55 to 65, and your SA will be depleted when you each $0, after which you can apply to start your CPF Life payout. The standard plan will pay you out ~$2200 per month for the rest of your life, or you can choose basic or escalating instead.

This is of course, not taking your maturing policies into account. You can choose to cash those out and live on cash spending instead while leaving your SA to grow. Once your cash runs out and you start spending on SA instead, your SA may even be able to last longer, perhaps up to age 70 in which case you can delay your CPF Life payout to start at age 70 instead for bigger monthly payouts.

 

[Value.Matrix]

I understand you wish to have some flexibility in cash, but I highly recommend setting some of it aside to make sure you are provided for FOR LIFE, so that no matter how much you screwed up, you will still get a nice payout every month for the rest of your life. The best way to ensure that, of course, is to make the most use of CPF Life from age 65, maximizing your SA at age 55, and plan your drawdown carefully between the age of 55 and 65.

So what you should so is to Shield your SA 1 month before the age of 55 (you can look up SA shielding through Google, there's a couple of threads here on this topic plus a couple of other blogs).

At age 55, your RA will be formed. $50k from OA + $40k from SA. Now immediately use cash to top up at least $91k to at least reach the FRS of $181k. Now you can drop the SA shield and have $160k in SA earning 4% interest. After which, you should then use $90.5k of cash to top your RA up to the ERS amount of $271.5k, leaving you with about $18.5 of spare cash.

You can withdraw as much money as you like from your SA as you like. $160k in SA allows you to withdraw about $1620 per month from age 55 to 65, and your SA will be depleted when you each $0, after which you can apply to start your CPF Life payout. The standard plan will pay you out ~$2200 per month for the rest of your life, or you can choose basic or escalating instead.

This is of course, not taking your maturing policies into account. You can choose to cash those out and live on cash spending instead while leaving your SA to grow. Once your cash runs out and you start spending on SA instead, your SA may even be able to last longer, perhaps up to age 70 in which case you can delay your CPF Life payout to start at age 70 instead for bigger monthly payouts.

If i were him, i would likely just withdraw the interest from OA/SA shield instead to spend, (or if there is no need, to let SA to continue to grow) until there is a need to drawdown from SA.

Of course, with CPF life kicking in from 65, and the interest from SA ($533 per month with $160k in SA), it should be worth enough since the interest is sustainable without drawing from SA.

 

[henrylbh]

I hv just made VC 37K recently .. OA 50K, SA 200K, MA 60K

Most of my current liquid assets are in FD : 200K
I hv a few insurrance policies ( GE/Pru/Aviva/ NTUC emdorment, moneyback, wholelife etc); some maturing next 1-2 years.
Yes, I too hv integrated shield plan.

I am hoping for flexibility in cash.. just in case I want to invest in property ( tog with my spouse, of course ).

Currently we own a private property, fully paid. But, we hv not refunded any amt used in our CPF acct for the property ... abt $500K for my CPF.

If you are still not working and turning 55 next year, it's better that you move the whole of your FD to CPF by maxing the annual VC and refund just enough CPF used for housing so that there is enough OA for shielding just before 55.

At 55, with RA formed, whatever left in your CPF is fully withdrawable anytime, except for MA, in any amount or you can continue to make VC, if you still got spare cash. Treat CPF like a savings account at higher interest than any FDs. If you still interested, you can still use whatever CPF left in OA and SA and half of FRS in RA for the next property.

Or at 55, with RA formed, you decide whether to top up RA to ERS with cash. You can still encash half of FRS (with sufficient property charge/pledged) or use it to buy next property.

ABSD is the biggest consideration in acquiring a second property and next, with age, are the loan tenure and quantum.

 

[Alandavidson]

I have been reading quite abit about this interest withdrawal. May i check how does this work?

Let’s say i got OA=100k, SA=100k, MA=60k (after deducting FRS of 181k), yearly interest credited on 31st dec night (assuming) willl be OA = 2.5k, SA= 4k and MA=2.4k, so total will be 8.5k. How do i withdraw this 8.5k and when? My understanding is if i put up a withdrawal, it will be deducted from my SA first.

If i were him, i would likely just withdraw the interest from OA/SA shield instead to spend, (or if there is no need, to let SA to continue to grow) until there is a need to drawdown from SA.

Of course, with CPF life kicking in from 65, and the interest from SA ($533 per month with $160k in SA), it should be worth enough since the interest is sustainable without drawing from SA.

 

[henrylbh]

I have been reading quite abit about this interest withdrawal. May i check how does this work?

Let’s say i got OA=100k, SA=100k, MA=60k (after deducting FRS of 181k), yearly interest credited on 31st dec night (assuming) willl be OA = 2.5k, SA= 4k and MA=2.4k, so total will be 8.5k. How do i withdraw this 8.5k and when? My understanding is if i put up a withdrawal, it will be deducted from my SA first.

Firstly, the interest on OA is 2.5% and SA/MA is 4%.

Only interest on OA and SA can be withdrawn (assuming no more contributions) anytime during the year. Interest is calculated up to the month before the month in which withdrawal is made. Example if you request to withdraw $X in Dec, all accrued interest up to Nov will be paid to satisfy $X. If interest is not enough to meet $X, the difference will be deducted from SA followed by OA.

It appears not possible to make request Jan to withdraw total interest earned in the previous year as it will be credited on 31 Dec and become principal sum on 1 Jan.

 

[BBCWatcher]

If you are still not working and turning 55 next year, it's better that you move the whole of your FD to CPF by maxing the annual VC and refund just enough CPF used for housing so that there is enough OA for shielding just before 55.

There's no need to refund CPF OA for SA shielding. Cash also works to fund a Retirement Account, as Tangent314 explained. There's even a bit of tax relief ($7,000) potentially available in that process if the newly formed Retirement Account is below the Full Retirement Sum.

The reason to pay back OA is to shift any dollars that are presently earning less than 2.5% interest (such as fixed deposits at current interest rates) into an on demand account (at age 55+) that's paying 2.5% interest. That might make sense now, but Tangent314's suggestion is probably better.

 

[henrylbh]

There's no need to refund CPF OA for SA shielding. Cash also works to fund a Retirement Account, as Tangent314 explained. There's even a bit of tax relief ($7,000) potentially available in that process if the newly formed Retirement Account is below the Full Retirement Sum.

The reason to pay back OA is to shift any dollars that are presently earning less than 2.5% interest (such as fixed deposits at current interest rates) into an on demand account (at age 55+) that's paying 2.5% interest. That might make sense now, but Tangent314's suggestion is probably better.

He said he has 50k in OA and 200k in SA. He is turning 55 next year. He said he has 200k in FD, 500k of OA used for housing and is not working.

So what is 'even a bit of tax relief'?

He has one chance left to VC next year.

At 55, 186k of 200k will move to RA, leaving 50k in OA and 14k in SA (assuming nothing changed and no further VC).

Hence, he needs to refund enough CPF used in housing to ensure that he has enough OA to substitute amount taken out of SA for investment, to meet FRS at 55.

Any balance in FD can be used to make further VC after 55 or top up RA to ERS. Whatever he tops up to ERS at 55, he can still withdraw half of FRS subsequently.

 

[JF123456]

Thanks . Sounds great.
So, per yr adv:-
1. Before age 55, Remove 160K fr SA thr shielding
2. @ 55, RA = 90K, OA = 50K, SA 40K
After age 55,
3. Cash top up 90K ( or more ) upto FRS => RA = FRS
4. Return 160K to SA ( fr shielding) => OA =0, SA = 160K.. to earn interest or withdraw

Qn :
1. Is the seq of step 3 and step 4 impt ?
Can I return 160K to SA ( fr shielding), and do cash top up later ? Is there a cap or time limit to this cash top up ?

2. The previous qn regarding integrated shield policy, is this an important factor for considering to do the above steps ?

Thx !

 

[JF123456]

Yes, most likely I will leave the $ to grow with the interest, unless I hv big item to invest/buy. For my daily allowance , I plan to count on the maturing insurance plan / bonds/

 

[JF123456]

He said he has 50k in OA and 200k in SA. He is turning 55 next year. He said he has 200k in FD, 500k of OA used for housing and is not working.

So what is 'even a bit of tax relief'?

He has one chance left to VC next year.

At 55, 186k of 200k will move to RA, leaving 50k in OA and 14k in SA (assuming nothing changed and no further VC).

Hence, he needs to refund enough CPF used in housing to ensure that he has enough OA to substitute amount taken out of SA for investment, to meet FRS at 55.

Any balance in FD can be used to make further VC after 55 or top up RA to ERS. Whatever he tops up to ERS at 55, he can still withdraw half of FRS subsequently.

Yes, there is no tax relief adv for my case, and yes, I am left with 1 more VC next year.
By refunding CPF house, this amt will go to OA , and earns 2.5% interest.
Tangent's suggestion seems attractive with cash top up goes to SA to gain 4% interest.

Whatever plans, it seems that I can't lower my RA to BRS, if I want the flexibility of withdrawing $ in future.

 

[JF123456]

There's no need to refund CPF OA for SA shielding. Cash also works to fund a Retirement Account, as Tangent314 explained. There's even a bit of tax relief ($7,000) potentially available in that process if the newly formed Retirement Account is below the Full Retirement Sum.

The reason to pay back OA is to shift any dollars that are presently earning less than 2.5% interest (such as fixed deposits at current interest rates) into an on demand account (at age 55+) that's paying 2.5% interest. That might make sense now, but Tangent314's suggestion is probably better.

Yup, I will probably follow Tangent's suggestion of cash top up to SA acct first thr SA shielding.
And , if I hv subseq available cash fr maturing bond or insurrance policy, I will considering to refund CPF hsing to get 2.5%. This, I presume, I can withdraw too, if I need the $ , right? ( of course , I am aware withdraw will come fr SA , then OA acct ).

 

[tangent314]

Thanks . Sounds great.
So, per yr adv:-
1. Before age 55, Remove 160K fr SA thr shielding
2. @ 55, RA = 90K, OA = 50K, SA 40K
After age 55,
3. Cash top up 90K ( or more ) upto FRS => RA = RPS
4. Return 160K to SA ( fr shielding) => OA =0, SA = 160K.. to earn interest or withdraw

Qn :
1. Is the seq of step 3 and step 4 impt ?
Can I return 160K to SA ( fr shielding), and do cash top up later ? Is there a cap or time limit to this cash top up ?

2. The previous qn regarding integrated shield policy, is this an important factor for considering to do the above steps ?

You MUST top up your RA to FRS before you drop the shield. If you get the order wrong, your SA will be moved to RA (up to the FRS) immediately after you drop your shield. If you wish, you can take your time to top up from FRS to ERS, up until when you want to begin CPF Life payouts. Not sure why you would want to do that and lose out on the 4% interest though.

Just checking that you have an Integrated Shield Plan in place, and Medishield topped up to BHS. It doesn't affect any of the above. Of course, if you have an expensive rider, you will need more retirement income to pay for that.

 

[henrylbh]

Yes, there is no tax relief adv for my case, and yes, I am left with 1 more VC next year.
By refunding CPF house, this amt will go to OA , and earns 2.5% interest.
Tangent's suggestion seems attractive with cash top up goes to SA to gain 4% interest.

Whatever plans, it seems that I can't lower my RA to BRS, if I want the flexibility of withdrawing $ in future.

You already have 200k in SA. How are you going to cash top up SA?

 

[JF123456]

You already have 200k in SA. How are you going to cash top up SA?

I will most likely take up Tangent's suggestion of doing SA shielding, to reduce SA ( thereby RA) before 55. Upon 55, do cash top up to RA before moving back SA shield to SA acct.