CPF Interest

[pcmdan]

It is precisely for this group of people that CPF controls are important. If everyone knows that they can withdraw from CPF as long as they are unemployed, there will be a group of people who will stay unemployed so that they can"withdraw".

What then after they reach retirement and got no money inside? Who will end up paying? Government? By raising income tax rate? Not everyone is responsible in managing their money. Some will spend whatever they have.

what happen to those that does not wrk or wrk jobs that dont pay CPF? after they reach retirement how?

 

[BBCWatcher]

once u see how many people die b4 65 u know how less important cpf is

That number is statistically known, and according to the 2016 data (thank you, SingStat) about 8.62% of the resident population that dies before age 65.

However, you're probably forgetting another important aspect of CPF: its life insurance-like nature. Only 0.9% die before age 35. Most of the individuals dying between age 35 and age 65 are married, many with children. The CPF assets they leave behind go to their survivors, and that's quite important.

Most other countries' social insurance systems explicitly provide survivors' insurance, the classic "widows and orphans" protection. Singapore doesn't do that as effectively because CPF isn't a pure insurance program (not in this respect), but it is still life insurance-like, to a degree.

 

[BBCWatcher]

what happen to those that does not wrk or wrk jobs that dont pay CPF? after they reach retirement how?

They're on taxpayer funded ComCare with special housing aid in many cases, and that's neither lavish nor fun.

If you want to argue that Singapore's threadbare social safety net needs reinforcing, I'm right there with you. But that won't be free.

 

[pcmdan]

That number is statistically known, and according to the 2016 data (thank you, SingStat) about 8.62% of the resident population that dies before age 65.

However, you're probably forgetting another important aspect of CPF: its life insurance-like nature. Only 0.9% die before age 35. Most of the individuals dying between age 35 and age 65 are married, many with children. The CPF assets they leave behind go to their survivors, and that's quite important.

Most other countries' social insurance systems explicitly provide survivors' insurance, the classic "widows and orphans" protection. Singapore doesn't do that as effectively because CPF isn't a pure insurance program (not in this respect), but it is still life insurance-like, to a degree.

8.62% is just a number. It can happen to anyone. every 100 out there 8 will die early. I think the stats is quite high to be honest.

Thats only important if you want to work hard and want to leave something for your dependent. I dont have such concept. I work hard, i should spend on myself. Why should I give when I din receive any in the first place.....NO point working hard, suffer tremendous stress everyday at work just to save up $$ and give it to your survivor who did not do anything and get a nice windfall. Free $$ means easy $$ means spend it away fast.

 

[pcmdan]

They're on taxpayer funded ComCare with special housing aid in many cases, and that's neither lavish nor fun.

If you want to argue that Singapore's threadbare social safety net needs reinforcing, I'm right there with you. But that won't be free.

Sad to say, I was at the receiving end of such aid when I was young for years.

since these people will be on aid, den no problem liao lo

 

[TabascoSauce]

once u see how many people die b4 65 u know how less important cpf is

And once u see how many ppl who don't die before 65 end up picking cupboard, selling tissue, cleaning office pantry, clearing trays at hawker Centers, u will realise how important cpf is.

 

[BBCWatcher]

I work hard, i should spend on myself.

OK, but perhaps unfortunately for you (and fortunately for Singapore's taxpayers), society insists you and your dependents not become public burdens, insofar as possible to a reasonable degree. Sorry, that means modest mandatory minimum savings to support your own elder years (however many you have), grave emergencies (a terminal illness diagnosis for example), and nominated survivors.

 

[pcmdan]

And once u see how many ppl who don't die before 65 end up picking cupboard, selling tissue, cleaning office pantry, clearing trays at hawker Centers, u will realise how important cpf is.

sadly, i might not even get to see...

Anyway, for people without CPF they might also go to that route so it doesnt make any sense.

Besides, why do you have the thinking that people without CPF will definitely end up picking cardboard, selling tissues etc? Is that a form of discrimination?

 

[pcmdan]

OK, but perhaps unfortunately for you (and fortunately for Singapore's taxpayers), society insists you and your dependents not become public burdens, insofar as possible to a reasonable degree. Sorry, that means modest mandatory minimum savings to support your own elder years (however many you have), grave emergencies (a terminal illness diagnosis for example), and nominated survivors.

ya. So now to say, CPF is not my money. Since the money would have to be used for so many purposes beyond my control.

So I am right to say CPF is semi not our $$

I stand correct.

Now that we have establish our position, I would just want to reiterate, I am not against CPF, but I am for it. However, I too feel sad for people who really needs it but cant use it. And the many 2pid rules that come about using it. just like the En-Bloc e.g.

 

[TabascoSauce]

sadly, i might not even get to see...

Anyway, for people without CPF they might also go to that route so it doesnt make any sense.

Besides, why do you have the thinking that people without CPF will definitely end up picking cardboard, selling tissues etc? Is that a form of discrimination?

which part did i say ppl with no cpf will definitely end up picking up cupboard etc.? there are many reasons for one to not have cpf (self employment, work overseas, freelance, etc.), not all of them would need to work beyond retirement age in order to survive.

but there are many ppl do not have cpf and no other form of retirement funds/income and are forced to work in those jobs i mentioned. u really think those ah ma and ah gong work bcos they treat it as an exercise?

without cpf acting as mandatory savings, many more ppl will end up like that, especially given the fact that a significant portion of Singaporeans are not adequately prepared for retirement despite having mandatory savings.

 

[JuniorLion]

For those who are interested, CPF interest is in.

 

[pcmdan]

which part did i say ppl with no cpf will definitely end up picking up cupboard etc.? there are many reasons for one to not have cpf (self employment, work overseas, freelance, etc.), not all of them would need to work beyond retirement age in order to survive.

but there are many ppl do not have cpf and no other form of retirement funds/income and are forced to work in those jobs i mentioned. u really think those ah ma and ah gong work bcos they treat it as an exercise?

without cpf acting as mandatory savings, many more ppl will end up like that, especially given the fact that a significant portion of Singaporeans are not adequately prepared for retirement despite having mandatory savings.

U keep repeating it so it is reasonable to infer from it.

Honestly with or without CpF people might still end up like that as long as they have poor Financial knowledge, YOLO mentality and no future planning. Doesn't matter with CPF or not.

Besides u can have mandatory CpF savings but if no one is working this saving is no use.

What I am trying to say is...CPF should be more flexible in their usage. I.e. if there is an amount over BRS (e.g.) CPF should relax the rules and allow CPF to be used for more critical situation. I am not trying to say that one should be allowed to draw till 0

 

[JuniorLion]

What I am trying to say is...CPF should be more flexible in their usage. I.e. if there is an amount over BRS (e.g.) CPF should relax the rules and allow CPF to be used for more critical situation. I am not trying to say that one should be allowed to draw till 0

With regards to your bolded comments above, CPF can already be used if there exists some critical situation.

You just need to understand how to do it.

 

[BBCWatcher]

With regards to your bolded comments above, CPF can already be used if there exists some critical situation.

And for non-critical situations, too, such as putting a down payment on a home (HDB leasehold) or paying for education. (There is no requirement to buy a home or to go to university. These situations are not “critical” — you are allowed to rent — but you can still use CPF monies in these ways.) And for any reason at all at age 55.

And did we mention these funds are uniquely shielded from creditors and court judgments? You can screw up, badly, and you’re not totally wiped out if you have some CPF savings.

 

[pcmdan]

With regards to your bolded comments above, CPF can already be used if there exists some critical situation.

You just need to understand how to do it.

E.g.? From my understanding CPF can't even be used even when you have an existing new BTO pledged when your current flat is on enbloc status

 

[LiteHouse]

And once u see how many ppl who don't die before 65 end up picking cupboard, selling tissue, cleaning office pantry, clearing trays at hawker Centers, u will realise how important cpf is.

How about those family members with medical problems that are inherited? Means grandparent got it, then parent got it. Then the child high chance will get it. No provision for early withdrawal for the child?

 

[icyflame]

If a person who is in his 30s or 40s needs to rely on CPF because he cannot find job, how would the same person be able to find job in his 50s and 60s.

Quite worrying that there are people with such thinking. Time is better spent looking for a job or upgrading yourself instead of bitching about CPF. Understand how the game is played so that you can do well in life.

 

[bazingaman]

I paid so much taxes (which is my own money) and I want to have a say in it too..

<sarcastic comment>

 

[BBCWatcher]

How about those family members with medical problems that are inherited? Means grandparent got it, then parent got it. Then the child high chance will get it.

There is no requirement to bring a child into the world. Should the public (taxpayers) bear the burden of care for this hypothetical child (and future adult) when the parents know there's a high chance of inherited medical problems? That's "an interesting question," isn't it?

I would answer that question, broadly, "Yes," as it happens. I tend to be generous in these ways (and some others). But a lot of people would disagree with me.

No provision for early withdrawal for the child?

Early withdrawal of what exactly? The child has no CPF balances, except for an initial Medisave contribution from the government (taxpayers) which can be used to cover many medical expenses. In the scenario you describe, the adults also have medical problems. If those are dire medical problems (e.g. diagnosis of a terminal illness), yes, they can withdraw CPF monies on an exceptional basis. That's allowed!

 

[BBCWatcher]

From my understanding CPF can't even be used even when you have an existing new BTO pledged when your current flat is on enbloc status

That's a critical situation? Seriously?

Is it so difficult to understand that governments (and taxpayers) have a strong public policy interest in making sure that members of society save for their own futures (and their survivors' futures), if able and at least to a minimum degree? I don't think that's a difficult concept to grasp. Sure, many people want to raid their future savings (or not even save at all), for all sorts of reasons. However, from a public policy point of view, they need to be damn good reasons. Example: You're definitely going to be dead in 6 months (terminal illness), and you genuinely cannot afford next month's rent for your modest room sublet without tapping your CPF savings. That's a damn good reason, and that premature CPF withdrawal would get approved.