CPF OA

[wisely98]

He said "Assuming she doesn't keep a single cent, theoretically she can return the $350k to me and by doing so, I have "taken out" my CPF OA"

Still most here will think otherwise Mother got conned by first love scam

Exactly, it's just a hypothetical scenario and many are fast to jump right in, not to provide any direct answer but to judge. tsk tsk.

 

[Sinkie]

Exactly, it's just a hypothetical scenario and many are fast to jump right in, not to provide any direct answer but to judge. tsk tsk.

Anyway I think last time many also exploited the loophole of contributing cpf to their old ages parent to reduce their taxable income and then their parent will return to them the money, and this loophole was closed

 

[wisely98]

Right. It's a "Mom, give me your house, now!" maneuver.

This doesn't strike me as viable. The government is heavily involved every step of the way (HDB, CPF), and I'm sure the government is not naive. Questions will be asked, at the very least. It's also a very expensive way to raise cash.[/i]

I'm assuming that if the sale and purchase is done at market price and she's the legit seller and I'm the legit buyer. I guess any arrangement of monies after the deal, is private and is not flouting the law in any sense, right?

 

[luvalist]

Yes it’s a theoretical scenario but I am surprised this question was raised because “return” is not a right word.

It’s not a return btw. If u want her to return ur cpf money, u need to then return her the house (legally, that is with a deed) or something of equivalent value.

So u did not take out your cpf money this way. U took away her house AND money.

He said "Assuming she doesn't keep a single cent, theoretically she can return the $350k to me and by doing so, I have "taken out" my CPF OA"

Still most here will think otherwise Mother got conned by first love scam

 

[Sinkie]

I'm assuming that if the sale and purchase is done at market price and she's the legit seller and I'm the legit buyer. I guess any arrangement of monies after the deal, is private and is not flouting the law in any sense, right?

How much is your Mother resale hdb? If it's worth more than your $350k, most likely you won't be able to buy from her at your price too

 

[henrylbh]

I'm assuming that if the sale and purchase is done at market price and she's the legit seller and I'm the legit buyer. I guess any arrangement of monies after the deal, is private and is not flouting the law in any sense, right?

But no matter how you look at it .... that's possible only because it's a love scam.

 

[BBCWatcher]

If u want her to return ur cpf money, u need to then return her the house (legally, that is with a deed) or something of equivalent value.

It cannot be the home, because the sale of the home back to her would result in the OA funds (plus any accrued interest) flowing right back into CPF custody. Which would be an expensive bit of "entertainment" involving two sets of transaction costs.

It probably cannot be something of equivalent value, because that'd be the asset tapped for this dire-but-not-so-dire emergency, whatever it is. (OA funds can be tapped for dire medically-related emergencies, education, housing, certain insurance, CPFIS investing, and some types of transfers between CPF members -- and correspondingly reduce the dollars that would otherwise be used for any of those purposes. And withdrawn at age 55+. They're certainly not useless dollars.)

So u did not take out your cpf money this way. U took away her house AND money.

Not a great deal for the mother!

 

[henrylbh]

How much is your Mother resale hdb? If it's worth more than your $350k, most likely you won't be able to buy from her at your price too

That's not the issue. Mother can still give him the flat for love (i.e. FOC) except for the return of her CPF plus accrued interest. Transaction can also be done at valuation or at higher than valuation if his intent is to take out max from his CPF and in this case he should go for 380k instead of 350k.

 

[Sinkie]

That's not the issue. Mother can still give him the flat for love (i.e. FOC) except for the return of her CPF plus accrued interest. Transaction can also be done at valuation or at higher than valuation if his intent is to take out max from his CPF and in this case he should go for 380k instead of 350k.

If his mother hdb is worth $600,000, I don’t think he will be able transact at $350,000 too.

 

[henrylbh]

If his mother hdb is worth $600,000, I don’t think he will be able transact at $350,000 too.

That can be done for related party. No different from FOC. Only need to pay stamp duty on valuation (if 600k is the value) or transaction price (350k) whichever higher.

 

[Sinkie]

That can be done for related party. No different from FOC. Only need to pay stamp duty on valuation (if 600k is the value) or transaction price (350k) whichever higher.

Ohh that’s something new I learn today

 

[henrylbh]

For related party transaction, there is also stamp duty remission under certain conditions.

 

[henrylbh]

Not a great deal for the mother!

An impossible deal. Only possible if it's a love deal and for that, there is no logic.

 

[cheongmanz]

I'm assuming that if the sale and purchase is done at market price and she's the legit seller and I'm the legit buyer. I guess any arrangement of monies after the deal, is private and is not flouting the law in any sense, right?

Huai is TS so concerned about whether his mum "returning" the money to him is against the law?

 

[henrylbh]

Huai is TS so concerned about whether his mum "returning" the money to him is against the law?

I doubt there is anything wrong in law. In the back of his mind, he is not only thinking how to get out his CPF ..... And what better way than to use his mum

The mum, for love, forgets that she becomes very susceptible to all kind of risks by his action, even if he is the only child.

 

[BBCWatcher]

I doubt there is anything wrong in law.

The government holds legal title over CPF assets, as it happens. The assets are assigned to you, and they should properly be counted as part of your net worth, but in the strict legal sense they are the government's for the duration.

That seemingly arcane, esoteric legal distinction could be quite important in scenarios like this one, if the government were to conclude that no rational adult (who may also be elderly) would ever agree to this, even for love.

....Wouldn't it be a lot easier to leave Singapore and Malaysia?

 

[The_Davis]

Huai is TS so concerned about whether his mum "returning" the money to him is against the law?

so technically what he mentioned can be done without legal repurcussions?

 

[henrylbh]

Just because I deliberated on the words used ....

I doubt there is anything wrong in law.

You jumped in with your mumbo jumbo ....

The government holds legal title over CPF assets, as it happens. The assets are assigned to you, and they should properly be counted as part of your net worth, but in the strict legal sense they are the government's for the duration.

That seemingly arcane, esoteric legal distinction could be quite important in scenarios like this one, if the government were to conclude that no rational adult (who may also be elderly) would ever agree to this, even for love.

....Wouldn't it be a lot easier to leave Singapore and Malaysia?

HDB allows transfer of flat among family members out 'of love'. But now they used the words at 'no consideration' except for conveyancing fee. This allows for transfer at any consideration among the family members.

CPF allows such transaction as long as the transferor's CPF plus accrued interest is returned to CPF in full.

IRAS allows such transaction as long as stamp duty is paid according to valuation if higher than transfer price or remission is given according to conditions.

Such transfer does not really need any rational except that 2 hdb officers are present to ensure that elderly transferor is fully aware of his or her action in his or her language.

Suka suka leave just Sg because wanna take CPF out?

 

[henrylbh]

so technically what he mentioned can be done without legal repurcussions?

What legal repercussion can there when HDB allows such transfer? Of course, mother can still enter into litigation subsequently if she changes her mind and pleads ignorant. Then it's up to the law to decide.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Of course, mother can still enter into litigation subsequently if she changes her mind and pleads ignorant. Then it's up to the law to decide.

That's one possibility. Another possibility is that one civil servant among the many involved in this multi-agency process raises a concern that the parent did not do/is not doing something competently.