CPF SA

terence2112

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lets say i have 200k in oa and 200k in sa.

i shield, i will have 0 in oa and 40k in sa.

at 55, my ra will have 40k

i decide not to convert the money shielded back to cpf. my ra will not have frs. this is not what the garmen wants. so they may stop this.

Slight correction. 1st 20k in the OA cannot be invested. So technically, 60k will be in your RA, when one turns 55.
What this also means is that your FRS is not met, even with ppty being pledged to the max.
That monies that was “invested out” cannot be withdrawn as cash. Ultimately, it still had to flow back to OA/SA.
 

BBCWatcher

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Here's another scenario. Sadly, there are some children with short life expectancies. So an age 55+ parent might withdraw funds (esp. OA), deposit them in the child's MA and/or SA, and then the child's funds are nominated to whomever. While the child is alive the funds earn at least 4.0% interest, an improvement. AND they might be available for immediate withdrawal if/when needed, on medical grounds. As long as the child lives long enough with the funds earning 4.0% for at least a few months, this math works.
 

henrylbh

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Slight correction. 1st 20k in the OA cannot be invested. So technically, 60k will be in your RA, when one turns 55.
What this also means is that your FRS is not met, even with ppty being pledged to the max.
That monies that was “invested out” cannot be withdrawn as cash. Ultimately, it still had to flow back to OA/SA.

If the money invested outside CPF got better yield, why not, but cannot be used (without flowing back to CPF) the what's the use except for posterity.
 

henrylbh

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Here's another scenario. Sadly, there are some children with short life expectancies. So an age 55+ parent might withdraw funds (esp. OA), deposit them in the child's MA and/or SA, and then the child's funds are nominated to whomever. While the child is alive the funds earn at least 4.0% interest, an improvement. AND they might be available for immediate withdrawal if/when needed, on medical grounds. As long as the child lives long enough with the funds earning 4.0% for at least a few months, this math works.

Still over my dead body for such very remote scenario and betting :s13: unless you talking about member with special needs.
 

BBCWatcher

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Slight correction. 1st 20k in the OA cannot be invested. So technically, 60k will be in your RA, when one turns 55.
Dork32 has an outstanding mortgage of >$20K, so it's possible to plow the remaining $20K of OA funds into a one-time mortgage payment, as I've illustrated.

Is it possible to get RA funding down to $35K by exercising a $5K withdrawal? I'm not sure; that's an interesting edge question.

We're assuming no SA cash top ups in Dork32's hypothetical.
 

henrylbh

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No, not necessarily. You might be doubling the interest rate (from 2.5% OA withdrawal to as high as 5.0% MA/SA deposited including the bonus interest), plus possible tax relief. These assets are also extremely well protected globally against creditors and court judgments. Any "lock down" could be very well rewarded....

What's the idea of adding plus possible tax relief?

Also protected from the kid's dire needs?
 

BBCWatcher

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What's the idea of adding plus possible tax relief?
For fresh MA and SA deposits, which this would be, tax relief is possible. It certainly depends on whether the child has Singapore taxable income.

Also protected from the kid's dire needs?
No, not all dire needs. MA is available for all qualified medical expenses in Singapore (one set of dire needs) and is paid out to the child's CPF nominee (such as the child's spouse), serving as a form of life insurance -- another dire need. SA is available for hardship withdrawals even prior to age 55 (terminal illnesses, etc.), another set of dire needs, and of course nomination as with MA. Moreover, since these future money uses are better secured earlier, the child has greater freedom to adjust current spending, saving, and insurance patterns now, all of which help defend the child better against dire needs. There are also a few situations involving children who are reckless, and so defending their futures from themselves is quite important. Sad, but occasionally true.

Maintaining at least adequate liquidity and cash flow is undoubtedly important, but the key word is adequate. If "maximize liquidity at all times!" were a valid, reasonable financial objective then nobody should ever buy any homes, especially not any HDB leaseholds, for example. Of course if you are going to accept a reduction in liquidity you should be reliably rewarded for doing so. In many of the scenarios described you and/or your child will be well rewarded.

Please note that "child" does not equal "minor." Nobody ever qualified this by saying "minor child." There are some additional considerations that apply to minors receiving CPF deposits.
 
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eInS78

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Hi, can anyone advise if the amount used from oa for property loan payment will affect the total withdrawal amount at age 55? For both scenarios where the oa + sa hit FRS and BRS + ppty pledge at age 55 and property fully paid.
 

Andrew833

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Hi, can anyone advise if the amount used from oa for property loan payment will affect the total withdrawal amount at age 55? For both scenarios where the oa + sa hit FRS and BRS + ppty pledge at age 55 and property fully paid.

This is something I also interest to know.:D
 

dork32

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No use thinking what the gov wants. Just work within the rules and get the max benefits while still available.

what i suggested is working within the rules. someone else mentioned about wat garmen wants
 

77james

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Hi, can anyone advise if the amount used from oa for property loan payment will affect the total withdrawal amount at age 55? For both scenarios where the oa + sa hit FRS and BRS + ppty pledge at age 55 and property fully paid.

As long u don’t sell yr house. The CPF used using OA and accrued interest won’t affect u which u used for housing.

If OA + SA hit FRS. Any excess can draw out at age 55. But BRS + property pledge excess can also withdraw out but cannot be topup cash to SA, grant and interest.

Correct me if I am wrong
 

dork32

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Dork32 has an outstanding mortgage of >$20K, so it's possible to plow the remaining $20K of OA funds into a one-time mortgage payment, as I've illustrated.

Is it possible to get RA funding down to $35K by exercising a $5K withdrawal? I'm not sure; that's an interesting edge question.

We're assuming no SA cash top ups in Dork32's hypothetical.

you are right. i can shield my oa all the way to 0
 

dork32

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I'm saying what's the point of shielding? just take everything out to top up kids CPF SA lor if you want to earn 4%pa interests. you guys all so short of cash meh?

it is not short of cash or wat. it is money is my sa is real money. it is going to liquid soon. money in kids sa is not liquid, till 40 years later.
 

henrylbh

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Hi, can anyone advise if the amount used from oa for property loan payment will affect the total withdrawal amount at age 55? For both scenarios where the oa + sa hit FRS and BRS + ppty pledge at age 55 and property fully paid.

No issue if you have FRS or BRS+property charge at age 55.
 

dork32

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Even easier
Use the cash to pay for kids BTO mortgage
Let them transfer their own OA to SA
Very simple
Roll it up not down

this is even more dumb man.

sa is earning me 4%, kid's bto mortgage is charging then2.6%. why would i want to put my liquid cash at 4% into this mortgage.
 

dork32

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exactly,so what's the point to do CPF shielding? unnecessary loop right?
roll everything up would be so much easier

why are you contradicting? andrew is saying cash on hand is good. after shielding cpf sa is as good as cash on hand
 

henrylbh

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you are right. i can shield my oa all the way to 0

Ha ha, I know some with 0 OA without shielding because they not enough monthly CPF contribution and have to pay mortgage partly with cash.
 

dork32

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Put money in kid's CPF? Over my dead body :s13: Only when the money is of no use till the day you die or the day the kid can use it. Else you die when the kids are still young, kids cannot touch what's inside CPF.

smart guy. that is y you put money in father's cpf and not kid's cpf
 

dork32

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I don't think the government would be particularly bothered. You're still automatically joining CPF LIFE (if you were born after 1957), you're still subject to a withdrawal restriction (since you didn't fund your Retirement Account "decently" but could have), and they're paying you less interest (OA at 2.5% v. RA at 4.0%). That's a good deal for the government and not a terrific deal for you, right?

this i doubt so. garmen seems to like us to keep a lot of money at the cpf. 2.5% may be great for us. it is not a bad deal for garmen either. It is like raising corporate bonds at 2.5%. Not very expensive. most bonds pay a higher coupon than 2.5%. then again most bonds are more risky than cpf.

one more thing, if garmen does not like us to puff up our cpf, then they would allow indiscriminate withdrawal.
 
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