CPF SA

[henrylbh]

Pls post your spreadsheet of accumulated interests

Asking me to strip

 

[maple96]

Asking me to strip

Later I have time, I will go retrieve online whatever I can find and calculate

 

[Jordan]

What is your age? Out of curiosity? Interests almost double mine based on 2019. But roughly, I can tell what is your balance, based on my own balances. And yeah. Prob not a million in CPF yet. But close. My guess is you are in your 50s

Posted from PCWX using ONEPLUS A6000

 

[Squaredot]

Asking me to strip

The details are personal data, no need to show it lah.
I believe u

 

[henrylbh]

Later I have time, I will go retrieve online whatever I can find and calculate

You want to retrieve more than 10 years, got to pay and pay.

My spreadsheet with columns on -

Account type
Total
Interest
Gov top-up
Housing
HPS
Inv
Inv profit
DPI
PMI
MA exp
VC
Top-ups
Transfers
Etc

Total data columns about 20 from day one.

 

[henrylbh]

The details are personal data, no need to show it lah.
I believe u

Some details. The accumulated interest exclude interest forgone when transferring my OA to my father's RA. Total transferred to his account was 136k and the amount returned to my OA on his demise was only 88k. The accumulated interest he earned on his RA came to $15,018.52 before year of death.

 

[Squaredot]

Some details. The accumulated interest exclude interest forgone when transferring my OA to my father's RA. Total transferred to his account was 136k and the amount returned to my OA on his demise was only 88k. The accumulated interest he earned on his RA came to $15,018.52 before year of death.

yea I know It's not easy to explain everything.

 

[henrylbh]

yea I know It's not easy to explain everything.

Ha ha. Just that the easy and don't want to are not the same.

 

[moolahloolah]

According to CPF. Seems like top up cannot be withdraw

Below as per cpf

I have also read and understood, and have informed the recipient of the following:

The top-up monies are meant for his retirement needs. Therefore he cannot apply to withdraw the top-up monies:
under any CPF schemes for education, investments, insurance, housing, CPF transfers and etc;
from his RA (even if he owns a property); and
via exemption from setting aside a retirement sum in the RA.

When your RA balance is >BRS, <FRS, CPF will EXCLUDE top-up money when calculating how much lump sum is withdrawable at age 55.

When your RA balance is >FRS, anything in excess of FRS can be withdrawn in lumpsum REGARDLESS whether the source of OA/SA had been from voluntary top-up vs. employment,

 

[razoreigns]

A person may have opportunity to put almost unlimited amount of money into OA. CPF annual limit does not apply. One example (cannot give more ), if a person doesn't have enough stock limit in his OA to pay for recent SIA rights issue and excess rights issue, the person is supposed to top up cash into his CPF Investment Account to pay for the rights issue. If the application for excess rights issue is partially filled (usually the case), the refund of excess money will go back to CPFIA and cannot be withdrawn as it becomes OA money.

No, I was in this same situation and the top up amount is still subject to annual limit. Your scenario shows the the exact drawback on using CPF and SRS to invest. When there are such corporate actions, investor is disadvantaged due to the rules CPF/SRS.

 

[henrylbh]

No, I was in this same situation and the top up amount is still subject to annual limit. Your scenario shows the the exact drawback on using CPF and SRS to invest. When there are such corporate actions, investor is disadvantaged due to the rules CPF/SRS.

You asked to top up CPF or CPFIA to pay for the rights issue?

I argued with the CPF officer that it does not make sense that I have to cash top up CPFIA to pay for the rights issue and if there is a refund to CPFIA, I am not allowed to take back cash from the top up.

I also mentioned that it does not make sense that top up and refund to CPFIA will exceed the annual limit and yet will not be refunded to me in cash. The officer confirmed that what's returned to CPFIA becomes CPF money and cannot take out.

It seems there is no disadvantage to me. I applied 3000 excess and got 2000 .... more than I expected.

 

[razoreigns]

You asked to top up CPF or CPFIA to pay for the rights issue?

I argued with the CPF officer that it does not make sense that I have to cash top up CPFIA to pay for the rights issue and if there is a refund to CPFIA, I am not allowed to take back cash from the top up.

I also mentioned that it does not make sense that top up and refund to CPFIA will exceed the annual limit and yet will not be refunded to me in cash. The officer confirmed that what's returned to CPFIA becomes CPF money and cannot take out.

It seems there is no disadvantage to me. I applied 3000 excess and got 2000 .... more than I expected.

I called CPF and they told me the top up will be to cpf and it would be transferred to cpfia for the rights application. If excess rights is not successful, will be refunded back into cpfia and subsequently back into cpf. But if the amount exceeds the annual limit subsequently, inclusive of mandatory contributions, then the amounts exceeding will be refunded without interest. Hence, you will not be able to contribute into cpf any amounts in excess of the annual limit.

 

[maple96]

You want to retrieve more than 10 years, got to pay and pay.

My spreadsheet with columns on -

Account type
Total
Interest
Gov top-up
Housing
HPS
Inv
Inv profit
DPI
PMI
MA exp
VC
Top-ups
Transfers
Etc

Total data columns about 20 from day one.

Wah, I dun need all the info, only need yearly interest.

But u are good, I calculated mine, cannot beat u just with income contribution alone

If dun keep records, dunno earn so much interest from CPF

 

[henrylbh]

I called CPF and they told me the top up will be to cpf and it would be transferred to cpfia for the rights application. If excess rights is not successful, will be refunded back into cpfia and subsequently back into cpf. But if the amount exceeds the annual limit subsequently, inclusive of mandatory contributions, then the amounts exceeding will be refunded without interest. Hence, you will not be able to contribute into cpf any amounts in excess of the annual limit.

You went through the normal CPF channel to pay for shares. Off course, there is an annual limit to put money directly into CPF and not only that, the deposit will go into 3 accounts and only 35% of what goes into OA can be invested.

After some understanding of the offer info statement, I called up both the agent bank and cpf twice each to clarify on insufficient fund to subscribe for the entitled rights and excess rights. Both said I need to top up CPFIA directly (and not through CPF) and there will be no refund in cash even if the amount exceed annual limit.

One officer gave a dubious answer and I had to make it very clear to her that I need to top up money and I can't play play with dubious answer. She had to hold the call repeatedly to get the answers from her superior.

 

[razoreigns]

You went through the normal CPF channel to pay for shares. Off course, there is an annual limit to put money directly into CPF and not only that, the deposit will go into 3 accounts and only 35% of what goes into OA can be invested.

After some understanding of the offer info statement, I called up both the agent bank and cpf twice each to clarify on insufficient fund to subscribe for the entitled rights and excess rights. Both said I need to top up CPFIA directly (and not through CPF) and there will be no refund in cash even if the amount exceed annual limit.

One officer gave a dubious answer and I had to make it very clear to her that I need to top up money and I can't play play with dubious answer. She had to hold the call repeatedly to get the answers from her superior.

That's the problem with CPF. When you go to them with an unusual issue, they don't know their own rules well enough and in many cases tell people the answer in a wrong context. So can you confirm that the funds transferred for unsuccessful excess rights were credited into your CPF OA, and that is already in excess of the annual limit ? Most people would not have reached the annual limit in June unless they actively topped up. Given that the SIA rights issue was just last month, you might still get the refund without interest later.

 

[highsulphur]

That's the problem with CPF. When you go to them with an unusual issue, they don't know their own rules well enough and in many cases tell people the answer in a wrong context. So can you confirm that the funds transferred for unsuccessful excess rights were credited into your CPF OA, and that is
already in excess of the annual limit
? Most people would not have reached the annual limit in June unless they actively topped up. Given that the SIA rights issue was just last month, you might still get the refund without interest later.

To be fair, it is an exceptional case. CPFIS probably did not and it would be difficult to take into account future corporate issue like rights issue. Perhaps after this they might just close cpf for investment to prevent future headache

 

[henrylbh]

That's the problem with CPF. When you go to them with an unusual issue, they don't know their own rules well enough and in many cases tell people the answer in a wrong context. So can you confirm that the funds transferred for unsuccessful excess rights were credited into your CPF OA, and that is already in excess of the annual limit ? Most people would not have reached the annual limit in June unless they actively topped up. Given that the SIA rights issue was just last month, you might still get the refund without interest later.

Money refunded will go straight into your CPFIA account, not OA and you are not allowed to withdraw money from CPFIA account. It will be transferred to OA at the appropriate time.

In my case, at the end, I decided to apply excess within my CPF stock limit cause I decide not to get cash stuck in CPF at 2.5% for the time being. Next time I may when more cash is available.

 

[henrylbh]

To be fair, it is an exceptional case. CPFIS probably did not and it would be difficult to take into account future corporate issue like rights issue. Perhaps after this they might just close cpf for investment to prevent future headache

Not possible to close as it's not right to deprive CPF holders from subscribing to his entitlements (and excess) when stock limit is maxed and annual limit is maxed at the point of corporate action. They can and should allow to refund cash top-up that has not been fully used.

 

[razoreigns]

Money refunded will go straight into your CPFIA account, not OA and you are not allowed to withdraw money from CPFIA account. It will be transferred to OA at the appropriate time.

In my case, at the end, I decided to apply excess within my CPF stock limit cause I decide not to get cash stuck in CPF at 2.5% for the time being. Next time I may when more cash is available.

I see. Then maybe it might even be worse to get the money stuck in cpfia, with almost zero interest. There is no clarity on the funds being transferred from cpfia to cpf oa when annual limit has been reached. No one has tested, and given the responses from cpf, is doubtful.

 

[DigDub]

U all rely on cpf for retirement meh? Surely got savings ba?