CPF SA

Andrew833

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After I did shielding for SA & OA before 55, after 55, my CPF is eg :
OA $100K
SA $100K
RA $181K FRS
MA $60K

To make things simple, interest earned from SA is $100Kx4%/12=$333 per mth whilst OA is $100Kx2.5%/12=$208 per mth

Is it possible for me to withdraw every month just the earned interest ($333 + $208) from SA & OA without touching the capital from 56yo?

Interest is given yearly not monthly, so you can only withdraw the interest after complete of 1 year.
For SA, it's better to start withdrawing interest after 65, so that you can earn the compounding interest.
For OA up to you as interest is not great.
 

henrylbh

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Interest is given yearly not monthly, so you can only withdraw the interest after complete of 1 year.
For SA, it's better to start withdrawing interest after 65, so that you can earn the compounding interest.
For OA up to you as interest is not great.

It's not what is better. It's what he wants. He no need to wait one year. He can withdraw interest only, every month.
 

lifeafter41

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It's not what is better. It's what he wants. He no need to wait one year. He can withdraw interest only, every month.

I recall reading in the CPF site that interest is computed monthly but credited towards year end, ie 1 Jan 20XX.....

Still can withdraw every month?
 

mynameisneo

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That comes to the question. When one (above 55) wants to withdraw, can he tell the cpf staff that "I wan to withdraw the interest accumulated from the previous months from both of oa and sa onli?"

Or actually such an option (to choose to withdraw the interest onli) is available in cpf online?

It's not what is better. It's what he wants. He no need to wait one year. He can withdraw interest only, every month.
 

BBCWatcher

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I believe in SA 4% interest, but I don't intend to put all eggs in 1 basket.
The easiest way to address that concern is to have more total eggs. If CPF's limit is 3 eggs, then you're not putting all your eggs in the CPF basket if you have 300 of them, are you?

Shield both then top up RA with cash after RA is created? Is that how it works?
Yes, that's how it works -- that's allowed under current rules.

However, the most popular OA "shield" is when people take HDB loans. When you pick up the keys to your HDB leasehold with a HDB loan, the CPF Board sweeps every penny above $20,000 from your Ordinary Account into leasehold equity, where it's quite illiquid. $20,000 is the most you can leave behind in your Ordinary Account in these circumstances. To avoid this "sweep" there's a straightforward solution: transfer at least the OA dollars above $20,000 to SA, which you can do as long as you're under age 55 and have not yet reached the Full Retirement Sum. That's an OA shield, too. (There are also some possible OA to SA/RA spousal/elder transfer options depending on your own balances.)
 

highsulphur

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The easiest way to address that concern is to have more total eggs. If CPF's limit is 3 eggs, then you're not putting all your eggs in the CPF basket if you have 300 of them, are you?


Yes, that's how it works -- that's allowed under current rules.

However, the most popular OA "shield" is when people take HDB loans. When you pick up the keys to your HDB leasehold with a HDB loan, the CPF Board sweeps every penny above $20,000 from your Ordinary Account into leasehold equity, where it's quite illiquid. $20,000 is the most you can leave behind in your Ordinary Account in these circumstances. To avoid this "sweep" there's a straightforward solution: transfer at least the OA dollars above $20,000 to SA, which you can do as long as you're under age 55 and have not yet reached the Full Retirement Sum. That's an OA shield, too. (There are also some possible OA to SA/RA spousal/elder transfer options depending on your own balances.)

But isn't there a limit on amount of cash top up to RA post creation of RA?
 

Kaypohji

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U r right.

Interest don’t earn interest monthly. That’s why they only put in the interest at the end of the year so it only compound yearly.

EDIT: but for withdrawal after 55, it may be different. They haven’t deposited in yet but doesn’t mean cannot withdraw

I recall reading in the CPF site that interest is computed monthly but credited towards year end, ie 1 Jan 20XX.....

Still can withdraw every month?
 
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hmyoth

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Interest is given yearly not monthly, so you can only withdraw the interest after complete of 1 year.
For SA, it's better to start withdrawing interest after 65, so that you can earn the compounding interest.
For OA up to you as interest is not great.

U can withdraw the interest anytime ... eg if Jun u want to withdraw from SA/OA. The interest From Jan to May 2020 in ur OA/SA will be withdraw first. This is what the CPF CS told me yesterday. My plan Is to full housing refund and VC every year.
 

Kaypohji

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Oh. I think the website did write smth like this before... hmm so it’s possible to withdraw the interest monthly then


U can withdraw the interest anytime ... eg if Jun u want to withdraw from SA/OA. The interest From Jan to May 2020 in ur OA/SA will be withdraw first. This is what the CPF CS told me yesterday. My plan Is to full housing refund and VC every year.
 

yokine3a

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Interest is given yearly not monthly, so you can only withdraw the interest after complete of 1 year.
For SA, it's better to start withdrawing interest after 65, so that you can earn the compounding interest.
For OA up to you as interest is not great.
Yes I know that, hence I only plan to withdraw the earned interest for 55yo in 56yo Jan month.
After 65,I have CPFL payout leh, what I need is an income to cover me during 56 - 64, as I want to retire at 55yo.
 

The_Davis

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Now that got double shielding technique. I think all the more cpf will make tweaks to the rules.
 

yokine3a

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That comes to the question. When one (above 55) wants to withdraw, can he tell the cpf staff that "I wan to withdraw the interest accumulated from the previous months from both of oa and sa onli?"

Or actually such an option (to choose to withdraw the interest onli) is available in cpf online?
I also keen to know, how to withdraw just the earned interest from SA & OA only?
 

kelvinang

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Thought this might be the best place to ask for help on this.
Not sure if it is IRAS or CPF specific actually, but trying my luck...

Situation:
I am Singaporean - an Australian company is trying to hire me in Singapore as first person on the ground so they are not very familiar with CPF and its' requirements. They do not have an entity in Singapore but have plans to setup once there is traction (revenue) coming from this market. They are paying in SGD

Problem:
1) They are not sure how to incorporate CPF and requested that I do it myself
2) I already suggested that they reach CPF directly to check for employer side but they insisted that I do it myself (implying that I would be a self-employed/contractor status)
3) Yearly rolling contract

Questions:
1) Tax implications?
2) A typical employer in Singapore will just factor 20% [Employee side] into the salary, and 17% [Employer side] usually company's admin/finance will take care --- If company wants me to contribute to CPF myself, does that mean they need to include all 37% of CPF into my salary, and thus every month I contribute accordingly myself as a self-employed?

Has anyone faced or seen a similar scenario before?
 
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BBCWatcher

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But isn't there a limit on amount of cash top up to RA post creation of RA?
Yes, but my point is that you don't have a diversification problem -- putting "too many eggs" into the CPF "basket" -- if your total wealth is big enough. Merely have one owner-occupied home in Singapore and your total wealth is probably big enough to avoid portfolio concentration concerns. (Although I'd still argue for "reasonable global portfolio diversification.")

Thought this might be the best place to ask for help on this.
Not sure if it is IRAS or CPF specific actually, but trying my luck...

Situation:
I am Singaporean - an Australian company is trying to hire me in Singapore as first person on the ground so they are not very familiar with CPF and its' requirements. They do not have an entity in Singapore but have plans to setup once there is traction (revenue) coming from this market. They are paying in SGD

Problem:
1) They are not sure how to incorporate CPF and requested that I do it myself
2) I already suggested that they reach CPF directly to check for employer side but they insisted that I do it myself (implying that I would be a self-employed/contractor status)
3) Yearly rolling contract
Yes, from your description you'll be self-employed, assuming IRAS agrees. Thus you'll be required to contribute to MediSave but not to your Ordinary and Special Accounts.

Questions:
1) Tax implications?
None directly. You'll still pay income tax.

2) A typical employer in Singapore will just factor 20% [Employee side] into the salary, and 17% [Employer side] usually company's admin/finance will take care --- If company wants me to contribute to CPF myself, does that mean they need to include all 37% of CPF into my salary, and thus every month I contribute accordingly myself as a self-employed?
No, but the fact this Australian company won't be contributing their 17% -- which could be as much as S$17,340 per year if your monthly salary is at least $6,000 and your variable pay (bonuses, commissions, etc.) is at least $30,000 -- should definitely factor into your compensation negotiations.

If you're employed, then you and your employer have compulsory contributions into all three of your CPF accounts (Ordinary, Special, and MediSave). If you're self-employed, you're only required to contribute into MediSave, and you don't have that 17% from an employer. You can contribute to all three accounts as if you were employed (and with you carrying the "employer's share" that you aren't getting), and then you get tax relief when you do that.

Basically, uplift your salary demands to account for that missing 17%, maximum S$17,340 per year (the highest figure an employer would pay, if you hit those salary and variable pay levels I described). Then it's up to you whether you want to make "all three" or just MediSave contributions (or somewhere in between), but I'd lean toward the former.

There are also potential personal liability considerations, so you'll want to give that some thought at least.
 

henrylbh

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I also keen to know, how to withdraw just the earned interest from SA & OA only?

Online, you only can indicate how much you want to withdraw. They will pay you interest accrued up to the previous month on SA/OA and if not enough to meet your request, the difference will be deducted from SA first followed by OA to meet the amount you want.

If can't estimate on your own, go see them and ask and they will give an estimate on the spot. Actual could be slightly different.
 

yokine3a

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Online, you only can indicate how much you want to withdraw. They will pay you interest accrued up to the previous month on SA/OA and if not enough to meet your request, the difference will be deducted from SA first followed by OA to meet the amount you want.

If can't estimate on your own, go see them and ask and they will give an estimate on the spot. Actual could be slightly different.
Thanks very much. I can also used Jan statement to see my accrued interest for previous year & calculate my monthly withdrawal.
Happy to know that I can rely on earned interest from SA/OA after 55yo, with CPFL kicks in on 65, I will be richer 😁
 

lifeafter41

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U can withdraw the interest anytime ... eg if Jun u want to withdraw from SA/OA. The interest From Jan to May 2020 in ur OA/SA will be withdraw first. This is what the CPF CS told me yesterday. My plan Is to full housing refund and VC every year.

Do full housing refund can be pretty substantial, assuming the flat is 500k, divide by 2, will be 250k plus accrued interest, at least 300k above......nevertheless the 2.5% still better then most FD rates.
 

8zaoyu

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Do full housing refund can be pretty substantial, assuming the flat is 500k, divide by 2, will be 250k plus accrued interest, at least 300k above......nevertheless the 2.5% still better then most FD rates.
Yep, as after 55, cannot top up SA (must do it when under 55), housing refund to OA for 2.5%, better than FD, cheers!
 

highsulphur

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Still have more than 10 years till 55. No point thinking too much about shielding now isnt it?
 
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