CPF SA

[dork32]

I think it has bequest... cpf life from 80 onwards no bequest... but say if u sign up a insurance annuity that pays u from 70 to 90. If u die anytime between this period, u will have bequest (exact amount need to calculate depends on plan) but definitely have... like that seems like already better than cpf life? I mean if u die at 81, ur cpf life has no bequest at all for frs standard but ur insurance annuity still has. Even 1$ also win already ?

what crimson say is that you should have added your bequest into the payout. the irr will not be negative. otherwise garmen cheat citizen.

 

[Kaypohji]

From 80 onwards cpf life standard frs no bequest... I’m comparing beyond 80...... as stated. I don’t wanna redo the table for 65-79 because I’m not interested in that age range... u all post ur table instead and have argument on best plan if die before 80?

I think it’s very highly likely most of the ppl will die between 80 to 89.

If dying at 70 plus I suggest is better don’t take any plans at all if possible. Try to minimize. Might as well opt for brs. Delay payout.

what crimson say is that you should have added your bequest into the payout. the irr will not be negative. otherwise garmen cheat citizen.

 

[Kaypohji]

Can post the table that Henry posted? I couldn’t find his table online at cpf website although he says he took it from there

I will redo one for basic plan taking into consideration for bequest this time! But I need the figures.. cpf website not very clear with the chart.

The thing about private insurance annuity is their returns depend on economy. They earn more they declare more to u. But for cpf life, it depends on ur lifespan. U have to live longer to earn higher returns and that’s the only way. If u just happen to die earlier like 82? Ur return is just likely 2% plus 3 for standard. Let me do the table on basic plan to see how....

I think objective is how long the person would want to budget his lifespan. If u think u have high chance to live very long, cpf life is no brainer and should opt for highest available plan.

If u r those kind u feel when u r sick at 70 plus 80, u rather forsaken treatment and die early, then u would wanna minimize cpf life. Usually, seldom ppl die of natural death early... usually it’s sickness...

you are comparing with cpf life standard. standard really sucks before 85, so it is not a good comparison. but stardard is really worth it if you live long. this is not a fair comparison.

you should compare your insurance with basic. you will realize that basic probably have a higher payout, higher bequest and pays throughout your life compared to your insurance throughout the life, except during the accumulation period.

 

[Kaypohji]

U just post yours? I’m not interested in delaying payout to 70. In fact I intend to retire early...

65 is still ok to start the payout. If there is an even earlier option, I will take that.

I don’t think cpf life is meant to be a legacy tool to leave wealth for ur dependents... cpf life objective is to maintain your living expenses for as long as live. If u all very concern about leaving bequest behind, should consider getting insurance products or whatever financial products there is and build a legacy behind

Just my thoughts. I feel different products have different objectives. It’s very hard to find one that helps one to maximize a person’s return on all situations. Usually would need a portfolio of different products with different objectives

wonderful. you understand how the irr formula works. can i request that you do a similar one for the case that we delay to the payout to 70? you will see wonderful results.

 

[dork32]

U just post yours? I’m not interested in delaying payout to 70. In fact I intend to retire early...

65 is still ok to start the payout. If there is an even earlier option, I will take that.

I don’t think cpf life is meant to be a legacy tool to leave wealth for ur dependents... cpf life objective is to maintain your living expenses for as long as live. If u all very concern about leaving bequest behind, should consider getting insurance products or whatever financial products there is and build a legacy behind

The purpose is not whether you want to delay or not. It is to consider it as an option so that we can make informed decision. I have extended your table downwards until 140 years old. what can you say about the irr

 

[Kaypohji]

That’s why I say cpf life is not a tool for u to plan ur legacy.... if u thinking to look at bequest and die early, should consider smth else.

Leaving beyond 100 plus is a bit far fetched but if u insist, then...

For me I still prefer to plan my portfolio based on the age range of 80-95 with more emphasis on 80s.

And why ur payout amount for 65 start is so high? U r basing on the higher non guaranteed payout?

How sure can u be that government will always pay u more than the lowest of the range ?

I’m not here to win an argument just for the sake of winning... I’m just sharing and hoping someone would if they think there is a better alternative than insurance annuity be it private or cpf life based on dying at age 80 plus

The purpose is not whether you want to delay or not. It is to consider it as an option so that we can make informed decision. I have extended your table downwards until 140 years old. what can you say about the irr

 

[dork32]

That’s why I say cpf life is not a tool for u to plan ur legacy.... if u thinking to look at bequest and die early, should consider smth else.

Leaving beyond 100 plus is a bit far fetched but if u insist, then...

And why ur payout amount for 65 start is so high? U r basing on the higher non guaranteed payout?

How sure can u be that government will always pay u more than the lowest of the range ?

the payout is the average of the max and min. this is the most likely amount that you will get. most likely i meant 90% chance

there is a range because interest rate may fluctuate between 3.5 and 4.5%. so the payout fluctuate as well. at the moment the 4% is has been there since policeman wear shorts. it is still there during the asian financial, dot com, sars, lehmen, covid , and pap lose 10 seats crisis. i think it is fair to assume that 4% will hold. my calculations is based on 4%.

 

[dork32]

That’s why I say cpf life is not a tool for u to plan ur legacy.... if u thinking to look at bequest and die early, should consider smth else.

Leaving beyond 100 plus is a bit far fetched but if u insist, then...

For me I still prefer to plan my portfolio based on the age range of 80-95 with more emphasis on 80s.

And why ur payout amount for 65 start is so high? U r basing on the higher non guaranteed payout?

How sure can u be that government will always pay u more than the lowest of the range ?

I’m not here to win an argument just for the sake of winning... I’m just sharing and hoping someone would if they think there is a better alternative than insurance annuity be it private or cpf life based on dying at age 80 plus

you do not get what i mean. i want to compare when 70 can over take 65 in terms of irr. the answer is never.

and for you info, i am not arguing with you.

 

[Kaypohji]

Appreciate the table but that was nv my qns

I was nv comparing age 65 or 70 to start payout... all along my question is if a private insurance annuity is slightly better than cpf life standard frs if one is to pass away at their 80s... my qns is very specific....

you do not get what i mean. i want to compare when 70 can over take 65 in terms of irr. the answer is never.

and for you info, i am not arguing with you.

 

[dork32]

That’s why I say cpf life is not a tool for u to plan ur legacy.... if u thinking to look at bequest and die early, should consider smth else.

Leaving beyond 100 plus is a bit far fetched but if u insist, then...

For me I still prefer to plan my portfolio based on the age range of 80-95 with more emphasis on 80s.

And why ur payout amount for 65 start is so high? U r basing on the higher non guaranteed payout?

How sure can u be that government will always pay u more than the lowest of the range ?

I’m not here to win an argument just for the sake of winning... I’m just sharing and hoping someone would if they think there is a better alternative than insurance annuity be it private or cpf life based on dying at age 80 plus

and my view is this: we must have an open mind. we should consider all options available and not be fixated on one. otherwise you would no different to the guy that always recommends ers, escalating and start at 70 to everyone.

my payout is based on 1800 vs 2000. if it is 1800 vs 2100, then the irr will cross over at 92

and one more thing: if you do not intend to live beyond 90, then basic could be a better choice. why are you wasting time on standard?

 

[dork32]

Appreciate the table but that was nv my qns

I was nv comparing age 65 or 70 to start payout... all along my question is if a private insurance annuity is slightly better than cpf life standard frs if one is to pass away at their 80s... my qns is very specific....

why dont you compare basic with private insurance?

 

[Kaypohji]

I asked for the numbers that Henry shared cause it’s very comprehensive. I said I couldn’t find and I find the chart very messy

Why u so defensive? If u strongly object to my qns u can feel free to share ?

I don’t see how my simple qns amounts such hostility

why dont you compare basic with private insurance?

 

[dork32]

I asked for the numbers that Henry shared cause it’s very comprehensive. I said I couldn’t find and I find the chart very messy

Why u so defensive? If u strongly object to my qns u can feel free to share ?

I don’t see how my simple qns amounts such

i am not defensive and i dont see hostility.

i am just building on your irr spreadsheet that you have done.

if you cannot find, you can make one yourself.

just like i ask you to add two more columns, you refused, i do it myself

 

[Kaypohji]

2 more columns for payout from age 70?

Oh.. cause I not looking to start my payout late. Just My own preference that doesn’t based on any economical numbers.

Will try to find the numbers on basic plan....

i am not defensive and i dont see hostility.

i am just building on your irr spreadsheet that you have done.

if you cannot find, you can make one yourself.

just like i ask you to add two more columns, you refused, i do it myself

 

[bossjiaksai]

Why plan until so detailed? What returns, which gives more etc. You can’t control when you die. You can plan till 80, 90, but an accident tomorrow may end all that. Or a medical condition. Too many variables. Just try to max out as soon as you can, within your comfortable zone, and spend the time on other areas of life.

 

[henrylbh]

Let’s say I don’t mind they take the whole brs from my sa. 90.5k. But I want the other 90.5k to remain in my sa. Also must shield sa?

U mean we don’t have to drawdown sa first? we can withdraw oa the lower interest account first?

I intend to withdraw like 1k per month from either sa or oa, whichever also can. On top of my brs payout.

If you want other half of 90.5k from SA going into RA to meet BRS, you need to shield it. But when you unshield, you need to make good any shortfall in FRS in RA So?

Next, you cannot withdraw OA before SA.

 

[dork32]

Why plan until so detailed? What returns, which gives more etc. You can’t control when you die. You can plan till 80, 90, but an accident tomorrow may end all that. Or a medical condition. Too many variables. Just try to max out as soon as you can, within your comfortable zone, and spend the time on other areas of life.

so what do you mean by maxing out? no need calculations to max out?

 

[Andrew833]

Let’s say I don’t mind they take the whole brs from my sa. 90.5k. But I want the other 90.5k to remain in my sa. Also must shield sa?

U mean we don’t have to drawdown sa first? we can withdraw oa the lower interest account first?

I intend to withdraw like 1k per month from either sa or oa, whichever also can. On top of my brs payout.

Let use amount as an example to better understanding.
Example1;
before 55, oa 90k sa 181k - no shield
at 55, oa 90k, sa 90.5k, ra 90.5k
after 55, you cannot take out oa and sa interest yearly cos you have to clear oa then can touch sa.

Example 2;
before 55, oa 90k, sa 181k - shield sa 141k/90.5k - oa 90k, sa 40k/90.5k
at 55, shield sa 141k - oa 35k, sa 0, ra 90.5k
after 55, unshield sa 141k - oa 35k, sa 141k, ra 90.5k
at 55, shield sa 90.5k - oa 90k, sa 0, ra 90.5k - no reason to shield since no different

In order to withdraw yearly interest from sa, you have to withdraw all your remaining oa before 55.

 

[dork32]

2 more columns for payout from age 70?

Oh.. cause I not looking to start my payout late. Just My own preference that doesn’t based on any economical numbers.

Will try to find the numbers on basic plan....

this is wat i mean by not being open minded and refusing all other suggestions.

"it is my money so i do wat i like. who cares if there are better choice"

and if economic numbers are not important, why bother to find the numbers out for basic?

 

[dork32]

2 more columns for payout from age 70?

Oh.. cause I not looking to start my payout late. Just My own preference that doesn’t based on any economical numbers.

Will try to find the numbers on basic plan....

the numbers for basic? oh coz no one else is interested in making the comparison. just everyone preference that cpf life is better that any dumb annuity. and we dont require economic numbers

who says i am defensive?