CPF SA

[Kaypohji]

Yes. I’ve thought ppl choosing frs was because majority of the ppl did top up... so they were being forced to choose frs once they made top up

Wasn’t aware of the second sweep.

Now very clear !!! Thanks !!!!

don't fight FRS. There is no point. 2nd sweep never ends until FRS is fulfilled.

BRS is reserved for people without enough.

Now you can appreciate why people talk about CPF life plans, not BRS/FRS.

 

[dork32]

wow, see how fake news can spread.

1st sweep is from oa + sa to form ra at 55

2nd sweep is from ra to annuity at 65 if you choose standard.

if you already at brs, it will not sweep you oa and sa to frs during the second sweep.

show me where in cpf website that says the second sweep will sweep the oa and sa to frs

 

[dork32]

I think my mistake, think to confirm with experts here.

hello, you are right lah

 

[fr33d0m]

wow, see how fake news can spread.

1st sweep is from oa + sa to form ra at 55

2nd sweep is from ra to annuity at 65 if you choose standard.

if you already at brs, it will not sweep you oa and sa to frs during the second sweep.

show me where in cpf website that says the second sweep will sweep the oa and sa to frs

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/members/FAQ/...ent+Sum+Scheme&ajfaqid=2190582&folderid=18088

If you are born in 1958 or after, and have not set aside your FRS in your RA, there will be another transfer of Special Account and/or Ordinary Account savings to your RA, up to FRS, six months before you reach your payout eligibility age.

read for yourself

 

[fantastyy]

after reading this, https://blog.policypal.com/insurance/what-should-you-do-when-banks-slash-their-interest-rates/ , should I take my money out and put in CPF srs? or is endowment better?

 

[Okenba]

after reading this, https://blog.policypal.com/insurance/what-should-you-do-when-banks-slash-their-interest-rates/ , should I take my money out and put in CPF srs? or is endowment better?

CPF is confirmed at least 2.5% or 4%, depending on OA or SA.
Endowments are at most 4.75%

It is quite telling that the writer puts down "realistic total" for bank interest rates but does not do so for endowments.

 

[BBCWatcher]

wow, see how fake news can spread.
1st sweep is from oa + sa to form ra at 55

Drawing first from SA then, if necessary, from OA until the new Retirement Account is (a) funded to the Full Retirement Sum, or (b) both SA and OA are exhausted, whichever comes first.

It's currently possible to use the CPF Investment Scheme shortly before your 55th birthday to "shield" all but $40,000 of Special Account funds and (optionally, less commonly) all but $20,000 of Ordinary Account funds from being swept into your Retirement Account. But you usually wouldn't do this unless you're still going to fund your Retirement Account at least to the Full Retirement Sum (or Basic Retirement Sum with property pledge/charge) since withdrawal restrictions typically apply otherwise.

2nd sweep is from ra to annuity at 65 if you choose standard.

There's a CPF Lifelong Income Fund element for all CPF LIFE payout plans (Basic, Standard, Escalating). Moreover, nothing happens to your Retirement Account specifically at age 65 unless you request it. CPF LIFE payouts can start as late as age 70, and that's the "do nothing" default. This also means you can keep your Retirement Account withdrawal option open until shortly before your 70th birthday if you wish (and if you merely do nothing).

You must make (or already have), and maintain, a sufficient property pledge or charge if you want to make a Retirement Account withdrawal to reduce your RA "substantially" below the Full Retirement Sum. (Up to $5,000 at age 55+ and up to 20%, inclusive of any age 55+ withdrawal, can typically be withdrawn from your RA without a property pledge/charge.) The CPF Board doesn't make any further attempt to add funds to your Retirement Account if you have that property pledge/charge in place.

Whether it's wise to withdraw from your Retirement Account is a separate question.

Any more questions?

 

[BBCWatcher]

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/members/FAQ/...ent+Sum+Scheme&ajfaqid=2190582&folderid=18088
read for yourself

You need to read a little further. Click on the link the CPF Board provides, and then you'll see this:

3. How much will be transferred to my RA? Can I choose how much to be transferred?

....If you have met your retirement sum in cash and property pledge, you can opt to retain your property pledge. You can also apply to reserve your savings in the OA for your housing payments so that they will not be transferred to your RA. Please note that monies retained in your OA will earn a lower interest of up to 3.5%, as compared to monies in the RA, which earn interest of up to 6%....

In short, you can keep your RA at the BRS (plus accrued interest), with a sufficient property pledge/charge, at and even past age 65, if you wish. You can "wave off" this second, age ~64.9 sweep in those circumstances, if you wish.

On edit: I happen to agree that you shouldn't reduce your RA below FRS funding. Indeed, my plan is to go the other way (to the ERS, repeatedly). But you have several choices, if you insist.

 

[Andrew833]

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/members/FAQ/...ent+Sum+Scheme&ajfaqid=2190582&folderid=18088



read for yourself

CPF will send you a letter, option to FRS or remain BRS.
They just scare that later you old age, no money, they need to feed you.

Anyway, I will fix with FRS in SA.

 

[dork32]

You need to read a little further. Click on the link the CPF Board provides, and then you'll see this:


In short, you can keep your RA at the BRS (plus accrued interest), with a sufficient property pledge/charge, at and even past age 65, if you wish. You can "wave off" this second, age ~64.9 sweep in those circumstances, if you wish.

On edit: I happen to agree that you shouldn't reduce your RA below FRS funding. Indeed, my plan is to go the other way (to the ERS, repeatedly). But you have several choices, if you insist.

thanks for answering for me

 

[fr33d0m]

You need to read a little further. Click on the link the CPF Board provides, and then you'll see this:


In short, you can keep your RA at the BRS (plus accrued interest), with a sufficient property pledge/charge, at and even past age 65, if you wish. You can "wave off" this second, age ~64.9 sweep in those circumstances, if you wish.

On edit: I happen to agree that you shouldn't reduce your RA below FRS funding. Indeed, my plan is to go the other way (to the ERS, repeatedly). But you have several choices, if you insist.

The fact that you can opt out a sweep, does not mean there is no sweep. just as shield SA/OA does not mean there is no 1st sweep. LOL.

How does this property pledge work? It is different at 55, as CPF life is not effective. After 65, CPF life is effective, though payout may not start. What does pledge even mean? Can or will the government call the pledge upon certain conditions? If it is up to government to call the pledge to fulfill FRS, it will be very interesting result for many.

 

[BBCWatcher]

The fact that you can opt out a sweep, does not mean there is no sweep.

I agree and haven't suggested otherwise.

How does this property pledge work? It is different at 55, as CPF life is not effective. After 65, CPF life is effective, though payout may not start. What does pledge even mean? Can or will the government call the pledge upon certain conditions? If it is up to government to call the pledge to fulfill FRS, it will be very interesting result for many.

Many people are familiar with property "charges," which is what happens when you pay for housing using CPF Ordinary Account funds. Property "pledges" are conceptually similar: you pledge (promise) that you'll maintain home ownership (whether you actually live in it or not), failing which you must use the sales proceeds (equity) to replenish your Retirement Account.

In order to make a "substantial" withdrawal from your Retirement Account, you must make either a property pledge or charge that meets certain minimum parameters. "Substantial" means more than the up to $5,000 at age 55+/up to 20% at age 65+ (inclusive of the up to $5,000 portion) withdrawal options.

CPF LIFE isn't "effective" until payouts start -- it's really just that simple nowadays. (When CPF LIFE was first introduced it was a bit different, with possible life annuity premium deductions at age 55. That doesn't happen any more.) If you do nothing then the CPF Board starts your CPF LIFE payouts at age 70 with the Standard Plan. If you want something else (earlier payout start and/or different payout plan), you just ask the CPF Board when the time comes. Easy, right?

Once you start CPF LIFE payouts then your Retirement Account withdrawal options close, except for rare "full exit" scenarios, such as moving to France, becoming a French citizen, and losing/terminating your Singaporean citizenship. In those exit scenarios you can choose either to continue CPF LIFE payouts if they've already started or to make a full, lump sum withdrawal of any remaining life annuity value.

 

[dork32]

I agree and haven't suggested otherwise.


Many people are familiar with property "charges," which is what happens when you pay for housing using CPF Ordinary Account funds. Property "pledges" are conceptually similar: you pledge (promise) that you'll maintain home ownership (whether you actually live in it or not), failing which you must use the sales proceeds (equity) to replenish your Retirement Account.

In order to make a "substantial" withdrawal from your Retirement Account, you must make either a property pledge or charge that meets certain minimum parameters. "Substantial" means more than the up to $5,000 at age 55+/up to 20% at age 65+ (inclusive of the up to $5,000 portion) withdrawal options.

CPF LIFE isn't "effective" until payouts start -- it's really just that simple nowadays. (When CPF LIFE was first introduced it was a bit different, with possible life annuity premium deductions at age 55. That doesn't happen any more.) If you do nothing then the CPF Board starts your CPF LIFE payouts at age 70 with the Standard Plan. If you want something else (earlier payout start and/or different payout plan), you just ask the CPF Board when the time comes. Easy, right?

Once you start CPF LIFE payouts then your Retirement Account withdrawal options close, except for rare "full exit" scenarios, such as moving to France, becoming a French citizen, and losing/terminating your Singaporean citizenship. In those exit scenarios you can choose either to continue CPF LIFE payouts if they've already started or to make a full, lump sum withdrawal of any remaining life annuity value.

sibei cheem. i prefer to explain it this way.

garmen: ah pek, you retire, you need 1.4k a month
ahpek: why so much?
garmen: coz rental very expensive. room rental 700 a month.
ah pek: but i use my cpf to buy hdb already. i no need to rent
garmen: ok loh, you still need 700 a month.
ah pek: since i need only 700, i no need keep so much in cpf, right?
garmen: ok you win, go ahead and withdraw half of it.
ah pek: heng ah, now got 90k, can go find viet pooh or china meimei.
garmen: but if you sell your hdb, you must put back the 90k. you will need the extra payout to rent a room
ah pek: next time sell then say.

 

[rrr2015]

must return 90k + accured interests

garmen: but if you sell your hdb, you must put back the 90k. you will need the extra payout to rent a room
ah pek: next time sell then say.

 

[dork32]

On edit: I happen to agree that you shouldn't reduce your RA below FRS funding. Indeed, my plan is to go the other way (to the ERS, repeatedly). But you have several choices, if you insist.

assume brs = 100k

if you got no money to topup, i will say
(0k oa + 200k sa + 100k ra) brs better than (0k oa + 0 k sa + 300k ra) ERS.

the thing is this: your sa can be easily converted to ra, but not the other way around. also both also earn 4%. why bother to keep so much ra?

but if i got a lot of money to top up
(0k oa + 200 sa + 100 ra) brs lousier than (0k OA + 200k sa + 300k ra) ra top up to ers.

 

[dork32]

CPF is confirmed at least 2.5% or 4%, depending on OA or SA.
Endowments are at most 4.75%

It is quite telling that the writer puts down "realistic total" for bank interest rates but does not do so for endowments.

you go see who wrote this. policypal. it means insurance agent. if agent tell you his policy sucks and cpf is good, will you ever buy from him?

4.75% is a number plucked from thin air to prove that they are better than cpf sa. how often are they able to achieve this number in recent years?

most of the insurance savings plan are giving just 2++%. you want higher returns, you may have to go into ilp

 

[BBCWatcher]

assume brs = 100k
if you got no money to topup, i will say

Yes, the "got no money" part is a key assumption. But we're here in "Money Mind," with other threads asking how to eke out ~1.2% interest on ~$888,888 cash piles. "How about putting at least $10 of that pile into CPF?" didn't seem to occur to such people.

(0k oa + 200k sa + 100k ra) brs better than (0k oa + 0 k sa + 300k ra) ERS.
the thing is this: your sa can be easily converted to ra, but not the other way around. also both also earn 4%. why bother to keep so much ra?

You generally wouldn't tap SA for RA top ups, agreed. OA and cash are other potential, better sources for RA top ups. (Per current rules OA can be tapped efficiently at age 55 while a SA "shield" is in place.)

but if i got a lot of money to top up
(0k oa + 200 sa + 100 ra) brs lousier than (0k OA + 200k sa + 300k ra) ra top up to ers.

Or let's say it this way. This:

0K OA + 200K SA + 300K RA

is generally better than this:

200K OA + 200K SA + 100K RA

You could also land somewhere in the middle, such as this:

100K OA + 200K SA + 200K RA

 

[BBCWatcher]

4.75% is a number plucked from thin air to prove that they are better than cpf sa. how often are they able to achieve this number in recent years?

I think we can state matters a little stronger here. Insurance funds must invest heavily in bonds. Bond prices are currently quite high by historical standards (meaning yields are low), so it's reasonable to forecast that insurance funds won't do so well going forward. You properly ought to focus on the insurer guaranteed portion of the particular product in question.

 

[yokine3a]

you can choose BRS at 55 to withdraw money from CPF RA. Six months before reaching 65, government will sweep your CPF accounts starting from highest interest rate one, that is, SA to fulfill FRS. So you can't only have BRS in RA and money in other CPF accounts six months before reaching 65.

Don't think we can choose whatever plan at 55 now, has to be at 65.

Q When do I have to choose my CPF LIFE plan?
A If you are a Singapore Citizen or Permanent Resident born in 1958 or after and have to join CPF LIFE, we will write to you six months before you reach age 65 to explain the options you have and the choices you have to make.

You will only need to choose your CPF LIFE plan when you wish to start receiving your CPF LIFE monthly payouts, which can be anytime from your age 65 to age 70. If you do not choose a plan before age 70, we will automatically place you on the CPF LIFE Standard Plan and start your payouts at age 70.

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/members/FAQ/schemes/retirement/cpf-life/FAQDetails?category=retirement&group=CPF+LIFE&ajfaqid=2186353&folderid=11656

 

[dork32]

200K OA + 200K SA + 100K RA

You could also land somewhere in the middle, such as this:

100K OA + 200K SA + 200K RA

if you do that then the oa is trapped behind the sa. most people that can afford such topups will not want to withdraw the sa. so in effect, it is money is trapped. and if it is trapped, it is no different from ra. i might as well go for ra because interest rate is higher