CPF SA

[jasvonvios]

For the 20% PEA lump sum withdrawal , RSTU monies (C) are excluded from the calculation:
https://www.cpf.gov.sg/member/faq/r...ligibility-age-lump-sum-withdrawal-amount-com
Payout eligibility age lump sum withdrawal amount computed at age 65 [(A+B-C-D) x 20%] - $5,000

You also need to have housing refund eligibility to deposit the funds back to OA.

But OA's yield is 2.5% and RA's yield is 4% so what's the objective here? The PEA lump sum withdrawal will also reduce your LIFE payout.

I dun want too much of my money goes to cpf life as it is like insurance, it goes into a pool and you no longer have control. The payout is not guaranteed by gov and it can goes bankrupt.

So at 65, I want to transfer as much as possible to OA to earn interest and I like the liquidity.

 

[vsvs24]

Close the CPFIS-OA account and either transfer the holdings to CDP or sell for cash.

I have to do this at 55 or anytime after 55 ?

 

[iMac]

3 is to withdraw for some spending money from OA because after unshield SA if I withdraw it will take from SA.

4 is because I plan to withdraw 20% cash from RA at age 65 if needed. So I am thinking of transferring some from OA to RA so that after withdrawal it does not affect payout so much. I have a lot more in OA than SA.

I have done a dry run using $100 from SA in Dec using FSMone. Can make it back in time if there is no delay in 3 and 4. These are the only 2 steps that I could not test to see how long it takes. If they are immediate, then no issue.

Bro...

FSM stated time taken for CPF transaction is about 3-4 days (completed buy/sell cycle will be about 7-8 working days)...I think it is not when you click the BUY/SELL button.

If your birthday date not in the middle of the month..it is quite challenging to complete this cycle within the same month.

 

[vsvs24]

Bro...

FSM stated time taken for CPF transaction is about 3-4 days (completed buy/sell cycle will be about 7-8 working days)...I think it is not when you click the BUY/SELL button.

If your birthday date not in the middle of the month..it is quite challenging to complete this cycle within the same month.

Following is based on my test of $100 using FSMOne for Nikko AM Shenton Short Term Bond SGD.

1. Placed order to buy on Wed 15 Dec 2021 at 10.33am.

2. Notified by SMS from CPFB of deduction on 17 Dec. Checked CPF transaction history show deduction of $100 from SA posted on Thu 16 Dec.

3. Place order to sell on Tue 21 Dec at 12.15pm.

4. Notified by SMS from CPFB of investment refund on 24 Dec. Checked CPF transaction history show refund of $100. 07 to SA posted on Thu 23 Dec.

Anyway, I just do what I can. If for some reason it gets refunded next month so be it. Overall still good

 

[skpuppy]

Can one transfer his OA/ SA to spouse SA?

 

[zoneguard]

I have to do this at 55 or anytime after 55 ?

Anytime after 55 when you need the liquidity.

 

[zoneguard]

Can one transfer his OA/ SA to spouse SA?

Spouse A's OA to spouse B's SA. Both giver and recipient need to meet certain conditions depending on their ages, account limits, meeting BRS for giver, below FRS for recipient.

https://www.cpf.gov.sg/member/faq/growing-your-savings/retirement-sum-topping-up-scheme

 

[BBCWatcher]

I dun want too much of my money goes to cpf life as it is like insurance, it goes into a pool and you no longer have control.

Your CPF balances are already in a pool. It's called a computer. These are all just electronic entries in a database on the CPFB's computer. Their computer maintains your various individual claims on the pool: OA, SA, MA, RA, and your individual claim on the CPF Lifelong Income Fund.

The payout is not guaranteed by gov and it can goes bankrupt.

If the CPF Lifelong Income Fund goes "bankrupt" that means the CPF Board has, too, and that means the Government of Singapore no longer exists as a functioning entity because it too has defaulted. This is a AAA-rated government's statutory board we're talking about here. There is no greater or lesser bankruptcy risk in the CPF Lifelong Income Fund than in the rest of CPF.

The exact payout amount from CPF LIFE is not guaranteed by the government. It might "wobble" a tad, within a narrow band, but then again the real purchasing power of Singapore dollars varies rather more. Monthly payouts for life based on actuarials are guaranteed by the CPFB. That's why it's called CPF LIFE.

So at 65, I want to transfer as much as possible to OA to earn interest and I like the liquidity.

And how do you plan to do that?

 

[zoneguard]

I dun want too much of my money goes to cpf life as it is like insurance, it goes into a pool and you no longer have control. The payout is not guaranteed by gov and it can goes bankrupt.

So at 65, I want to transfer as much as possible to OA to earn interest and I like the liquidity.

You realise all the CPF schemes are run by the same entity and have the same risk level?

CPF LIFE exist partially to hedge longevity risk so I hope you have some plans to deal with that.

 

[jasvonvios]

Your CPF balances are already in a pool. It's called a computer. These are all just electronic entries in a database on the CPFB's computer. Their computer maintains your various individual claims on the pool: OA, SA, MA, RA, and your individual claim on the CPF Lifelong Income Fund.

I think it is quite meaningless to make such argument, when the whole system collapse, even your sing dollars will become banana notes. As of today, I treat my OA and SA like saving accounts, I can withdraw them anytime unlike RA or cpf life when I am 65.

If the CPF Lifelong Income Fund goes "bankrupt" that means the CPF Board has, too, and that means the Government of Singapore no longer exists as a functioning entity because it too has defaulted. This is a AAA-rated government's statutory board we're talking about here. There is no greater or lesser bankruptcy risk in the CPF Lifelong Income Fund than in the rest of CPF.

I remember during cpf life debate in parliament, WP did asked the minister whether cpf life could go bankrupt and the reply is YES. If tomorrow someone invented a pill could extend life expectancy to 120 years, I will expect a responsible government to cut cpf life payout by at least half. If the government do nothing, I will withdrawn my OA and SA and convert them to other currency or gold.

The exact payout amount from CPF LIFE is not guaranteed by the government. It might "wobble" a tad, within a narrow band, but then again the real purchasing power of Singapore dollars varies rather more. Monthly payouts for life based on actuarials are guaranteed by the CPFB. That's why it's called CPF LIFE.

Are CPF LIFE payouts guaranteed?​

CPF LIFE payouts are not guaranteed, but they are designed to be stable. Any adjustments to CPF LIFE payouts are expected to be small and gradual. CPF LIFE is a self-sustaining insurance scheme where payouts are matched to premiums. Guaranteeing a minimum payout would require higher premiums.

And how do you plan to do that?

If I could withdraw 20% at 65, I can always contribute my cpf as self employed and put them back to OA and SA.

​

 

[SkyNinja]

Is it possible for SA to hit ERS before the age 55 if a person bulk transfer a lot OA to SA and also top-up a lot cash to SA during his/her 20s and 30s?

 

[fr33d0m]

Is it possible for SA to hit ERS before the age 55 if a person bulk transfer a lot OA to SA and also top-up a lot cash to SA during his/her 20s and 30s?

you don't need work so hard to reach ERS before 55... ERS is not that high at all...

 

[koolkool]

For housing, the request for the OA reserved amount needs to be given to CPFB before 55:
https://www.cpf.gov.sg/member/faq/h...ing-55-years-old-can-i-continue-to-use-my-cpf

Anyway RSTU monies cannot be withdrawn under PEA lump sum or BRS (property pledge).

Hi. If I going to do SA shielding when I reach 55, and OA is sufficient to fund RA at 55, while remaining OA I will keep for payment of housing loans after 55, do I still need to do this reservation?

 

[zoneguard]

Hi. If I going to do SA shielding when I reach 55, and OA is sufficient to fund RA at 55, while remaining OA I will keep for payment of housing loans after 55, do I still need to do this reservation?

It depends: the loan quantum and interest rate, any OA inflows after 55, any OA outflows (through schemes like spousal RSTU for example).

Best to do your calculations that the OA balance does cover the remaining loan+interest and then confirm with CPFB on the best course of action for your case.

 

[koolkool]

It depends: the loan quantum and interest rate, any OA inflows after 55, any OA outflows (through schemes like spousal RSTU for example).

Best to do your calculations that the OA balance does cover the remaining loan+interest and then confirm with CPFB on the best course of action for your case.

Hi Zoneguard,

Thanks. Still some years to go before this decision. Just wonder if CPFB will contact me nearer to 55 year old to run through with me on what to do/course of actions, or I need to look for them myself to initiate this? Is there any chronological steps out there which allow me to visualise the steps when I reach 55? Take for example, if I didn't chance on this thread, I will not have known that I need to fill up a form in order to continue serving loan with my OA after 55. I find there are many rules for this CPF scheme, and I might be unable to have the full picture of what I need to do to take maximum benefit from the scheme. Last time my mum and dad don't seemed to have so many things to consider when they reach 55.

Appreciate your help in this thread.

 

[Cobra!]

Hi Zoneguard,

Thanks. Still some years to go before this decision. Just wonder if CPFB will contact me nearer to 55 year old to run through with me on what to do/course of actions, or I need to look for them myself to initiate this? Is there any chronological steps out there which allow me to visualise the steps when I reach 55? Take for example, if I didn't chance on this thread, I will not have known that I need to fill up a form in order to continue serving loan with my OA after 55. I find there are many rules for this CPF scheme, and I might be unable to have the full picture of what I need to do to take maximum benefit from the scheme. Last time my mum and dad don't seemed to have so many things to consider when they reach 55.

Appreciate your help in this thread.

CPFB does not provide personalised service. If you feel the need, please make an appointment with them and speak to an officer. Else you'll need to do your own research.

 

[koolkool]

Close the CPFIS-OA account and either transfer the holdings to CDP or sell for cash.

Hi Zoneguard,

Thanks for this idea. I'm wondering if after closure of the CPFIS-OA, is it possible to open again, and repeat this step whenever I need to cash out on the OA after shielding SA. My aim is not to touch the SA and pass this to my kids. Looking at ways to withdraw OA first after SA shielding.

 

[JustDoLor]

Hi Zoneguard,

Thanks. Still some years to go before this decision. Just wonder if CPFB will contact me nearer to 55 year old to run through with me on what to do/course of actions, or I need to look for them myself to initiate this? Is there any chronological steps out there which allow me to visualise the steps when I reach 55? Take for example, if I didn't chance on this thread, I will not have known that I need to fill up a form in order to continue serving loan with my OA after 55. I find there are many rules for this CPF scheme, and I might be unable to have the full picture of what I need to do to take maximum benefit from the scheme. Last time my mum and dad don't seemed to have so many things to consider when they reach 55.

Appreciate your help in this thread.

As a special “Happy Birthday” from CPF, you’ll receive a “Reaching 55” information packet from CPF 6 months before your 55th birthday. This includes the opportunity to make an appointment to attend the CPF Retirement Planning Service, a one-to-one session with a CPF staff who would explain the CPF rules that apply to you once you reach 55.


In the past, CPF would send you the package by postage mail. I think from last year or earlier they start sending by your registered email.

 

[JustDoLor]

Hi. If I going to do SA shielding when I reach 55, and OA is sufficient to fund RA at 55, while remaining OA I will keep for payment of housing loans after 55, do I still need to do this reservation?

Assume FRS = $192k

Just before 55
SA: $40k
OA: $200k

After 55
SA: 0
OA: $48k
RA: $192k

Remaining $48k in OA can continue to use to pay housing loan. No reservation of OA required.
—————————————

If you need more than $48k in your OA after 55, you then need to request to reserve more.

After 55
SA: 0
OA: $100k
RA: $144K
Total amount use for housing: $150k

You can also withdraw immediately all of your remaining $100k in your OA , plus interest in your OA and SA, as the total amount in RA plus housing is more than $192k. (Property if meet CPF requirements, is automatically pledge if RA is insufficient to meet FRS)

 

[BBCWatcher]

I remember during cpf life debate in parliament, WP did asked the minister whether cpf life could go bankrupt and the reply is YES.

That's correct. It's possible for the Government of Singapore to go bankrupt. Not very likely at all, but technically possible. Planet Earth can go bankrupt if it has an appointment with a big enough space rock. "So what?"

If tomorrow someone invented a pill could extend life expectancy to 120 years, I will expect a responsible government to cut cpf life payout by at least half. If the government do nothing, I will withdrawn my OA and SA and convert them to other currency or gold.

In that hypothetical you'll be very happy indeed that you're getting a monthly income for life, which now lasts to about age 120, when you are that much more likely to outlive your savings. As it happens you probably won't be allowed to skip CPF LIFE, so why not make the most of it?

Is it possible for SA to hit ERS before the age 55 if a person bulk transfer a lot OA to SA and also top-up a lot cash to SA during his/her 20s and 30s?

Yes, absolutely. Hypothetically a generous person could deposit $192,000 (the entire 2022 Full Retirement Sum) today into a Singaporean citizen newborn's Special Account. That money will grow at >4% interest (thanks to some bonus interest), and that growth is faster than the growth in the ERS -- or at least it seems to be. So eventually the ERS will be reached and crossed.

That's an extreme example, but with compulsory contributions still streaming in over a working career it's very possible for a worker to hit the ERS in his/her SA well before age 55. OA to SA transfers and cash top ups are at least quite helpful, but also helpful are the Additional MediSave Contribution Scheme (AMCS) and minimizing MediSave withdrawals -- buying the public hospital Integrated Shield plan instead of the private hospital one, for example. That's because at some point MA reaches the Basic Healthcare Sum, and contributions and interest on a "full" MA then flow into SA until it reaches the Full Retirement Sum. So a "full" MA drives up the SA faster to the FRS. Past the FRS it's only the compulsory contributions and interest that continue adding funds to SA.