CPF Top up questions

[CrashWire]

https://dollarsandsense.sg/9-ways-can-use-medisave-pay-healthcare-expenses/

This article says that there is a withdrawal limit of 1.2k/mth for chemo.

Not sure why it is different.
I agree that 600/yr is way too low.

The article was in 2021.

The Medishield changes related to cancer came into effect in 2023. Looks like the limits are different depending on the treatment:

https://www.moh.gov.sg/healthcare-schemes-subsidies/medisave

• Outpatient cancer drug treatment for cancer drugs on the Cancer Drug List
  • Up to $1,200 per month for cancer drug treatments on the Cancer Drug List with MediShield Life claim limit above $5,400. Up to $600 per month for other cancer drug treatments on the Cancer Drug List
  • If more than one cancer drug from the list is used in a month, the patient may claim up to the amount not exceeding the highest MediSave claim limit applicable for the individual drugs.
  • Please use this link for more information on the Cancer Drug List
• Cancer Drug Services and Other Cancer Scans
  Up to $600 per year per patient

I wish MOH would clarify the difference with examples.

CPF money may be our money (bequeathed to our estate when we're dead), but it sucks that we can't use up our Medisave on the best treatments possible to beat cancer, but have to instead fork out cash.

 

[BBCWatcher]

I wish MOH would clarify the difference with examples

The Ministry of Health posts the full Cancer Drug List here. You can sort by column and easily determine which drugs are eligible for up to $1,200/month MediSave payments. There are 4 of them, 1 of which is in 2 dosing regimens.

CPF money may be our money (bequeathed to our estate when we're dead), but it sucks that we can't use up our Medisave on the best treatments possible to beat cancer, but have to instead fork out cash.

You can use MediSave for Integrated Shield base plan premiums, and those plans increase cancer drug coverage. For example, Great Eastern’s SupremeHealth B Plus (the base plan) increases the coverage for CDL drugs to 5 times the MediShield Life limit. That’s Great Eastern’s “as charged” public hospital B1 ward plan, about as low as it gets in premium cost. And that’s without any rider. (There’s a deductible and uncapped 10% co-pay without a rider, except for Singlife which has a co-insurance cap in their base plan.) I realize not everyone can get Integrated Shield plans (preexisting conditions) — something that I think ought to get fixed with, for example, 3 year moratorium underwriting — but over 70% of Singaporeans do.

That said, the MOH says they’re reviewing MediSave withdrawal limits. Of course they can also review MediSave contribution limits and contribution rates, so “be careful what you wish for.”

 

[royalmix]

Life is full of hacks and challenges.

If you dun hack or hack wrongly, what would be the consequence?

I hack to shield or protect myself against “manipulations” or changes which I cannot control or prevent, so I can focus on things I can control and which matters most to me to have a fulfilling life. I can ignore all the noise and distractions out there and increase my happiness.

Change is a constant, but I can choose to ignore if I am in control.

This thread is about CPF topup, why end up with all the discussions on medisave, medishield life and cancer? I hacked and shielded myself from all these manipulations by insurance and the authorities, so I can ignore most of the changes.

Back to CPF Topup Topic.

If you put a 4%pa 100k 30-year FD at 60, can withdraw 20% of the accumulated interest at 65 but must forfeit all the interest accumulated from age 65 if you die at 80, is it a good deal you will take?

 

[highsulphur]

Life is full of hacks and challenges.

If you dun hack or hack wrongly, what would be the consequence?

I hack to shield or protect myself against “manipulations” or changes which I cannot control or prevent, so I can focus on things I can control and which matters most to me to have a fulfilling life. I can ignore all the noise and distractions out there and increase my happiness.

Change is a constant, but I can choose to ignore if I am in control.

This thread is about CPF topup, why end up with all the discussions on medisave, medishield life and cancer? I hacked and shielded myself from all these manipulations by insurance and the authorities, so I can ignore most of the changes.

Back to CPF Topup Topic.

If you put a 4%pa 100k 30-year FD at 60, can withdraw 20% of the accumulated interest at 65 but must forfeit all the interest accumulated from age 65 if you die at 80, is it a good deal you will take?

First of all you aren't comparing the same things. CPF LIFE is a annuity, not a fixed D. Second you can't get a 30Y fixed D at 4% anyway

 

[BBCWatcher]

First of all you aren't comparing the same things. CPF LIFE is a annuity, not a fixed D. Second you can't get a 30Y fixed D at 4% anyway

Yup, and it's also government assured and well shielded from creditors/adverse court rulings.

If you want to compare CPF LIFE against something then compare it to another life annuity. Then you're at least in the same star system and not in some other galaxy.

 

[royalmix]

First of all you aren't comparing the same things. CPF LIFE is a annuity, not a fixed D. Second you can't get a 30Y fixed D at 4% anyway

You just have to answer my question. I am not comparing to a FD. This is CPF Life, what BBC suggested you topup in a prior post. Will you do it?

 

[royalmix]

Adding funds to a CPF Retirement Account does NOT reduce the amount you can withdraw in a lump sum from a CPF Retirement Account. In fact, if you haven't yet met the Full Retirement Sum (or Basic Retirement Sum with property pledge/charge) then adding funds to a CPF Retirement Account can raise the number of dollars you can withdraw from CPF.

Retirement income that's otherwise adequate (or at least closer to adequate) makes it more financially viable to draw down other assets for "lumpy" expenses, not less.

Yes, adequate liquidity is important. But so is adequate, secure retirement income for life.

Yup, and it's also government assured and well shielded from creditors/adverse court rulings.

If you want to compare CPF LIFE against something then compare it to another life annuity. Then you're at least in the same star system and not in some other galaxy.

If you put a 4%pa 100k 30-year FD at 60, can withdraw 20% of the accumulated interest at 65 but must forfeit all the interest accumulated from age 65 if you die at 80, is it a good deal you will take?

I am just putting what you suggested into real figures and implications. And you are disagreeing with your own suggestion?

 

[highsulphur]

Y

You just have to answer my question. I am not comparing to a FD. This is CPF Life, what BBC suggested you topup in a prior post. Will you do it?

Yes if I have sufficient wealth. Probably happy to put up to 30% of my wealth (excluding residential) in an annuity at 65

 

[DevilPlate]

If you put a 4%pa 100k 30-year FD at 60, can withdraw 20% of the accumulated interest at 65 but must forfeit all the interest accumulated from age 65 if you die at 80, is it a good deal you will take?

If u know when u gona die LOL

 

[DevilPlate]

Like machiam if u know VWRA gona be the same price 30years later....will u buy?

 

[DevilPlate]

Y

Yes if I have sufficient wealth. Probably happy to put up to 30% of my wealth (excluding residential) in an annuity at 65

ya la...30-40% of yr liquid networth OK lah.

Can guard against any kind of scammers including yourself!

 

[royalmix]

Like machiam if u know VWRA gona be the same price 30years later....will u buy?

U never learn from Adam Khoo? He used to DCA blindly but after he learnt how to read charts, he knows when to buy and when to sell!

You dunno when you will die, at least I know/expect when I can/want to live to, but many things not within our control one!

If I know I can lose more than I can make, it is a bad deal!

 

[BBCWatcher]

OK, if for some strange reason you're trying to compare an assured government-provided life annuity to traditional saving/investment then just compute a reasonable, defensible Safe Withdrawal Rate (SWR) from your own assets and with a 2%/year inflation assumption — let's suppose that's $2,000 per month from age 65 — and compare that figure to the CPF LIFE Escalating Plan payout provided from the same asset base (same amount). Of course what'll you discover is that CPF LIFE has a high payout ratio, higher than a reasonable, defensible Safe Withdrawal Rate from own assets. That's because it's a pooled risk life annuity, and (of course!) self-insuring against longevity risk is much more expensive. Moreover, 4.0% interest plus bonus interest is really rather good and hard to replicate in a reasonable retirement-oriented investment portfolio.

Not complicated, actually.

 

[royalmix]

I am just putting what you suggested into real figures and implications. And you are disagreeing with your own suggestion?

OK, if for some strange reason you're trying to compare an assured government-provided life annuity to traditional saving/investment then just compute a reasonable, defensible Safe Withdrawal Rate (SWR) from your own assets and with a 2%/year inflation assumption — let's suppose that's $2,000 per month from age 65 — and compare that figure to the CPF LIFE Escalating Plan payout provided from the same asset base (same amount). Of course what'll you discover is that CPF LIFE has a high payout ratio, higher than a reasonable, defensible Safe Withdrawal Rate from own assets. That's because it's a pooled risk life annuity, and (of course!) self-insuring against longevity risk is much more expensive. Moreover, 4.0% interest plus bonus interest is really rather good and hard to replicate in a reasonable retirement-oriented investment portfolio.

Not complicated, actually.

I am not comparing, there is no need to compare! It is your own suggestion on topup, I just give an example with figures and implications, and you disagree with your own suggestion! You dun understand what you yourself is talking about nor how RA topup and CPF Life works! vsvs ask you to explain, you did not even reply to her!

The other guy also dun understand how CPF Life works and just disagreed!

 

[MoDiE]

my current HDB loan is serviced using CPF payment monthly. Does it make any sense to convert to monthly cash payment?

CPF interest 2.5% whereas if the cash is put in a decent bank high yield savings account which sure will be more than 2.5%?

 

[BBCWatcher]

my current HDB loan is serviced using CPF payment monthly. Does it make any sense to convert to monthly cash payment?

CPF interest 2.5% whereas if the cash is put in a decent bank high yield savings account which sure will be more than 2.5%?

Well, I think you've started to frame the decision. CPF OA's interest rate is 2.5% (currently a low interest rate), OA dollars are restricted to certain purposes (paying a HDB loan is one of the few allowed purposes), investment choices for OA are more limited than for cash, and investment costs are higher for OA than for cash. So it makes perfect sense to use CPF OA dollars to pay your HDB loan, leaving your cash savings (or more of your cash savings at least) to invest prudently and more cost-effectively....

....But plopping your cash in a "high yield" bank savings account isn't necessarily the best idea if you've already mustered a sufficient emergency reserve (6 to 12 months of ordinary household expenses, counting your OA balances toward monthly HDB loan payments and depending on how conservative you are).

 

[CrashWire]

U never learn from Adam Khoo? He used to DCA blindly but after he learnt how to read charts, he knows when to buy and when to sell!

I don't understand this statement.

Even if you "learn how to read charts", you can read charts wrongly. It's no different from active trading.

DCA into a world index fund is bao jiak.

 

[PiPiChew]

Hi all, got question on CPF cash top up.

Did my checks online, the official answer from CPF Board is:

You can make a cash top-up to yourself or your loved ones via the CPF website or CPF mobile app. Your cash top-up will generally be credited almost instantly upon successful payment.

If my parents refuse to setup any CPF apps and iBanking apps on their phone due to fear of scams, does CPB Board allow for scheduled appointments to physically handover actual cash for top up?

We are trying to work out the logistics for this purpose. I am suspecting that physical cash is phased out / doesn’t exist, and thinking of workarounds such as they deposit their cash into my bank account and I use my iBanking apps to QR Paynow into their account on CPF browser website.

Work is busy, dreading the CPF hotline during office hours and get distracted from work.

 

[reddevil0728]

Hi all, got question on CPF cash top up.

Did my checks online, the official answer from CPF Board is:

You can make a cash top-up to yourself or your loved ones via the CPF website or CPF mobile app. Your cash top-up will generally be credited almost instantly upon successful payment.

If my parents refuse to setup any CPF apps and iBanking apps on their phone due to fear of scams, does CPB Board allow for scheduled appointments to physically handover actual cash for top up?

We are trying to work out the logistics for this purpose. I am suspecting that physical cash is phased out / doesn’t exist, and thinking of workarounds such as they deposit their cash into my bank account and I use my iBanking apps to QR Paynow into their account on CPF browser website.

Work is busy, dreading the CPF hotline during office hours and get distracted from work.

GIRO ok?

 

[vsvs24]

Hi all, got question on CPF cash top up.

Did my checks online, the official answer from CPF Board is:

You can make a cash top-up to yourself or your loved ones via the CPF website or CPF mobile app. Your cash top-up will generally be credited almost instantly upon successful payment.

If my parents refuse to setup any CPF apps and iBanking apps on their phone due to fear of scams, does CPB Board allow for scheduled appointments to physically handover actual cash for top up?

We are trying to work out the logistics for this purpose. I am suspecting that physical cash is phased out / doesn’t exist, and thinking of workarounds such as they deposit their cash into my bank account and I use my iBanking apps to QR Paynow into their account on CPF browser website.

Work is busy, dreading the CPF hotline during office hours and get distracted from work.

What are you trying to topup ?

If it is Medisave, you can topup for them using CPF e-cashier.

If it is topup of RA, you can login to your CPF mobile app or CPF website and topup for them.

You can get tax relief, subject to limits if eligible.

Enter their NRIC number as recepient.

Payment by Paynow is immediate. You can paynow from your bank account.

After topup, you should always get them to login to their CPF account to make sure the topup are reflected. The CPF app or website requires Singpass login. Perhaps they can use your mobile phone or laptop to login to their CPF account using their Singpass to check