[CROWDSOURCE] Endowment maturity value across insurers

[blurpandasg2014]

This thread is created to crowdsource data on how likely an insurer is to honour maturity value stated in the point of sales document.

While it is generally understood that insurers have a smoothing mechanism to keep "positive returns" in good years to smoothen out bad years, some insurers may cut bonuses multiple times over the course of the plan tenure,returning a maturity value vastly different from the original projection.

Insurer par fund performance =/= Returns

To ensure standardisation of information, provide the following information:
1. Insurer name:
2. Product name:
3. Maturity year
4. Maturity value from original BI @ upper projected limit
5. Maturity value

For Whole Life plan, provide the original illustrated value at age 65 vs projection of revised illustration.

Alternatively, you may fill in the Google form - https://forms.gle/tZsx4x1KTurj151t9 . Information will be consolidated and updated on the first post on a periodic basis.

**Disclaimer: Past performance do not guarantee of future results. Any interested party should undertake their own research and due diligence as to the accuracy of the information.

You can download the consolidated excel sheet HERE

Thank you for your contribution! Support only the good insurers!!!

 

[maumu]

I think your last question on the form is in the wrong format (it says it must be a valid email address).

 

[blurpandasg2014]

Thank you for picking up the error. I have updated the form

 

[blurpandasg2014]

Bumps, Pls help contribute to the data

 

[sohguanh]

Bumps, Pls help contribute to the data

You are looking for ppl whose policy has matured correct? So if one not yet matured dunno what value to fill in hence less ppl contribute I guess.

 

[sohguanh]

There is one blogger or financial services provider who collects maturity value vs premium paid for many years, still it does not serve much purpose to me. He will surely be interested to get this info to populate his database.

Possibly this forum readers like me have but those are super long term policies that will matured when one has reached age 55 onwards. I got nothing to share since not yet matured haha.

 

[blurpandasg2014]

Yeap, only information for matured ones as projection from insurer will keep changing every now and then.
I too do not have many endowment that has matured.

 

[sglandscape]

For curiosity, what's the purpose of the study?

 

[sohguanh]

For curiosity, what's the purpose of the study?

Just a wild guess. Collect statistics of the different insurers and how they "perform" for long term insurance ? Hence he need the final maturity value for the whole duration of the policy. Then can recommend to other ppl to buy which particular "pattern" of insurance from which insurer?

 

[sglandscape]

Just a wild guess. Collect statistics of the different insurers and how they "perform" for long term insurance ? Hence he need the final maturity value for the whole duration of the policy. Then can recommend to other ppl to buy which particular "pattern" of insurance from which insurer?

I do not think there will be a strong correlation for those with non guarantee returns, given broader academic studies have found most fund performance is literally a coin toss.

 

[sohguanh]

I do not think there will be a strong correlation for those with non guarantee returns, given broader academic studies have found most fund performance is literally a coin toss.

I imagine myself as an independent financial advisor now want to help my client for say endowment kind of insurance. How will I present to him which insurer to get from? With that table I can detect the "pattern" say for X years this Y insurer look to be strong so theoretically should get from Y insurer over others?

One can slowly go one by one insurer to get those info but it will be time consuming. With crowdsourcing info can get almost instantly.

It is the same analogy as current Fixed Deposit thread. So many different bank got FD which give the best rates? One can slowly go one by one to get those info or just browse the thread for ppl helpful posting.

 

[blurpandasg2014]

For curiosity, what's the purpose of the study?

I do not think there will be a strong correlation for those with non guarantee returns, given broader academic studies have found most fund performance is literally a coin toss.

I agree that par fund performance is a coin toss. The top insurer this year may not remain at the top next year.

Theoretically speaking, the higher the cumulative returns of the par fund, the more likely the insurer to honour the projection.

However, I noticed that this is not entirely true. Better par fund performance does not proportionally equate to higher returns for consumers.
(ie. Highest performing par fund cutting bonus/do not honour their projection despite having ample reserves)

The purpose of this thread is to provide realistic expectation on how likely the insurer are to honour the projection and if there is a trend on which insurer is more prone to cutting bonuses and by how much

 

[Shion]

Support this thread !

(However, my policy havent reach maturity yet)

 

[sglandscape]

Don't buy par funds may be the easier take away

 

[royalmix]

Par fund Performance is not the only factor that determine the bonus to be paid.

 

[blurpandasg2014]

Par fund Performance is not the only factor that determine the bonus to be paid.

Other factors such as death claims / surrender, etc. should have been catered for when doing up the projections.

Sometimes I wonder why insurer cut cut cut even when performance doing well

 

[royalmix]

Sometimes I wonder why insurer cut cut cut even when performance doing well

You know which ones, then dun buy from them.

Do screen your spreadsheet, for eg, I do not think GE270 should be in the list as it is non-participating, this person probably chose to keep his annual return with them, so the actual differs from projected cos they already qualify the interest to be paid is not guaranteed, this is fixed 2.7% interest per annum.

 

[oceanicmanta]

what are Whole Life Plans ?

... these technically do not mature

i have several Pru n GE WL plans whose Revised Projected Values are much lower than Original Projection

 

[blurpandasg2014]

what are Whole Life Plans ?

... these technically do not mature

i have several Pru n GE WL plans whose Revised Projected Values are much lower than Original Projection

If u have whole life plans, can state the original BI surrender value at 65 vs the revised projected.

 

[Globe]

i do statistic for a living ... the only reason u give a percentage AND of such a wide range of return is to mask the real data of the payout amount and fool enough fools to get suckered by the higher percentage they are selling.

by the time the policy matures , the servicing agents is long gone and even if you complain to the company directly , they will tell you the range they sold you back then is none guarantee ....

just remember insurance companies are a company at the end of the day to make profit