Desktop 2.0 & 2.1 speaker discussion thread VI [consolidated]

[dreamaurora]

Going to adelphi this week to audition svs 3000 micro, may be will try elipson facet 6b.

Wah, the svs is a good sub, but it’s more expensive than any of the speakers you plan to get, maybe consider one of the Earthquake’s MiniMes?

 

[Charles_Chi4]

Wah, the svs is a good sub, but it’s more expensive than any of the speakers you plan to get, maybe consider one of the Earthquake’s MiniMes?

Have auditioned REL (HT1003 and T5x) and SVS (3000 micro and 1000) and decided to get REL T5x.

As for speakers, I auditioned KEF LSX II and klipsch the fives and svs wireless pro. Decided to get the fives.

Will make my purchase within this week.

 

[dreamaurora]

Have auditioned REL (HT1003 and T5x) and SVS (3000 micro and 1000) and decided to get REL T5x.

As for speakers, I auditioned KEF LSX II and klipsch the fives and svs wireless pro. Decided to get the fives.

Will make my purchase within this week.

Nice choices. My current sub is downfiring also like Rel T5x. Downfiring sub goes deeper and has better rumble and more versatile in positioning.

Fives is a good entry point to audiophile level speakers. It is always my recommendation for those who wants to move up from soundbars.

 

[Kerrlyfries]

glad I saw this, one of the shops tried to sell me Bluesound node.. Quite useless to me, because I use YT Music as well.

 

[dreamaurora]

glad I saw this, one of the shops tried to sell me Bluesound node.. Quite useless to me, because I use YT Music as well.

If you are streaming from desktop or laptop, Bluesound Node is quite pointless, but it can be useful for proper living room setup. Though nowadays a lot of newer integrated amplifiers also have pretty good streaming capability and built-in DAC, so there are a lot more options now.

 

[Kerrlyfries]

Been watching alot of yotube videos recently.

I have heard the PSB AM5.

Going to try the SVS Prime Wireless Pro tomorrow. Anybody auditioned it yet?

Quite pleased with the AM5, however, the tech in the AM5 is a little bit old.

Probably going to pair it with the Svs micro 3000 too!

 

[Kerrlyfries]

Wah, the svs is a good sub, but it’s more expensive than any of the speakers you plan to get, maybe consider one of the Earthquake’s MiniMes?

Ya. Earthquake was also one of my considerations. The earthquake 10" perhaps..

I was also thinking of the svs ultra bookshelf. But seems like the premium wireless has better ratings.. Let's see how the audition goes like.

 

[Kerrlyfries]

Ya. Earthquake was also one of my considerations. The earthquake 10" perhaps..

I was also thinking of the svs ultra bookshelf. But seems like the premium wireless has better ratings.. Let's see how the audition goes like.

Dove in already.

My full set SVS

Bought SVS Ultra Bookshelfs.
SVS 1000s
Svs sounfbase Pro.

 

[dreamaurora]

Dove in already.

My full set SVS

Bought SVS Ultra Bookshelfs.
SVS 1000s
Svs sounfbase Pro.

Other than the subs, I'm not familiar with other SVS stuff, but from online reaction their sound seems to be quite accessible.

Congrats on your purchase. Can slowly think your upgrade path. I recommend getting a good power cord + a Furutech inline filter for your amp to improve your sound immediately for not a lot of money.

 

[LiLAsN]

Just a friendly reminder.

When looking to buy a subwoofer, please do look at their frequency response. Specifically at +/- 3dB.
Pay a particular attention to it's lowest frequency response. It must at LEAST go down to 20Hz. This is very very important.

Remember. The intention of the subwoofer is to fill in the gap that our speakers have which is our speaker's inability to reproduce sound on the low end where our bass is at.
And since our human hearing is capable of hearing from 20Hz to 20,000Hz, we want to be able to hear the full range of the sound frequency that we are capable of hearing in our videos and music.

The cheapest subwoofer that I can recommend is the SVS SB-1000 Pro. It's frequency response at ±3 dB is 20-270 Hz. This is perfect for people with upfiring Dolby Atmos speakers as the upfiring speakers usually have a frequency response of ±3 dB that starts above 100Hz. Thus the added advantage of the SVS's sub's large frequency range at +/- 3dB.

It is unfortunate that Charles has already bought the REL T5x. This subwoofer can only go down to 34Hz at ±3 dB. With that subwoofer, you won't feel much of the sub bass frequency that you feel as it rumbles. The sub bass frequency is usually used in horror movies to make you feel uneasy due to the constant low rumbling that you can barely hear but feel in the air and in your chest that is out of rhythm to your heartbeat and thus makes you feel unease. The movie's director and sound engineer does this to make you even more nervous when watching certain scenes in their movies. But that will be completely missing because the REL T5x performs quite poorly as a subwoofer.

Thus, the importance of just doing a quick search online when you are at the store to google the subwoofer's name along with the words "frequency response at +/- 3dB".
The problem is when at the showroom demo of a store, you can't really know how well the subwoofer is doing. Their demos are probably not even taking advantage of the lowest 20Hz range. Maybe you can play a Youtube video that is doing a frequency test sweep from 20Hz and up to 120Hz. If the volume for 20Hz and its rumbling bass that you can feel are both softer than the sound of the frequency at higher ranges, that is how you can also determine that the subwoofer is incapable of handling the low end well. But, it is still limited to the showroom demo. Thus why, just refer to the frequency response at +/- 3dB online as a guide to let you know that this subwoofer is a true subwoofer that will give you the entire low end range of your human hearing and is therefore, value for money. As you bought an actual subwoofer that actually does what it is supposed to.

PS. +/- 3dB means that highs and lows of the wave that the speaker is producing is within a certain range of volume. If the highs and lows are higher than +/- 3dB, then the sound is too soft or too loud vs the rest of the sound at a certain volume. This is not ideal and you'll be missing sounds at certain ranges. It can be described as muffled if the volume is lower than -3dB because the volume is too soft and cannot match the volume of all the other sounds in the 20Hz to 20kHz frequency.
Ignore +/- 6dB frequency response. It means you are allowing the sound to have a difference in volume of 12dB! Thus why you should stick to only looking at the subwoofer's +/- 3dB.

Also, the REL T5x is extremely overpriced for the performance that it gives. It performs as poorly as a 12 year old Logitech Z906 where it's subwoofer can go as low as 35Hz. Yet, that PC speaker setup gets you a 5.1 system at just $550 along with the subwoofer vs the $1000++ REL T5x with only the subwoofer. Ouch.

 

[dreamaurora]

Just a friendly reminder.

When looking to buy a subwoofer, please do look at their frequency response. Specifically at +/- 3dB.
Pay a particular attention to it's lowest frequency response. It must at LEAST go down to 20Hz. This is very very important.

Remember. The intention of the subwoofer is to fill in the gap that our speakers have which is our speaker's inability to reproduce sound on the low end where our bass is at.
And since our human hearing is capable of hearing from 20Hz to 20,000Hz, we want to be able to hear the full range of the sound frequency that we are capable of hearing in our videos and music.

The cheapest subwoofer that I can recommend is the SVS SB-1000 Pro. It's frequency response at ±3 dB is 20-270 Hz. This is perfect for people with upfiring Dolby Atmos speakers as the upfiring speakers usually have a frequency response of ±3 dB that starts above 100Hz. Thus the added advantage of the SVS's sub's large frequency range at +/- 3dB.

It is unfortunate that Charles has already bought the REL T5x. This subwoofer can only go down to 34Hz at ±3 dB. With that subwoofer, you won't feel much of the sub bass frequency that you feel as it rumbles. The sub bass frequency is usually used in horror movies to make you feel uneasy due to the constant low rumbling that you can barely hear but feel in the air and in your chest that is out of rhythm to your heartbeat and thus makes you feel unease. The movie's director and sound engineer does this to make you even more nervous when watching certain scenes in their movies. But that will be completely missing because the REL T5x performs quite poorly as a subwoofer.

Thus, the importance of just doing a quick search online when you are at the store to google the subwoofer's name along with the words "frequency response at +/- 3dB".
The problem is when at the showroom demo of a store, you can't really know how well the subwoofer is doing. Their demos are probably not even taking advantage of the lowest 20Hz range. Maybe you can play a Youtube video that is doing a frequency test sweep from 20Hz and up to 120Hz. If the volume for 20Hz and its rumbling bass that you can feel are both softer than the sound of the frequency at higher ranges, that is how you can also determine that the subwoofer is incapable of handling the low end well. But, it is still limited to the showroom demo. Thus why, just refer to the frequency response at +/- 3dB online as a guide to let you know that this subwoofer is a true subwoofer that will give you the entire low end range of your human hearing and is therefore, value for money. As you bought an actual subwoofer that actually does what it is supposed to.

PS. +/- 3dB means that highs and lows of the wave that the speaker is producing is within a certain range of volume. If the highs and lows are higher than +/- 3dB, then the sound is too soft or too loud vs the rest of the sound at a certain volume. This is not ideal and you'll be missing sounds at certain ranges. It can be described as muffled if the volume is lower than -3dB because the volume is too soft and cannot match the volume of all the other sounds in the 20Hz to 20kHz frequency.
Ignore +/- 6dB frequency response. It means you are allowing the sound to have a difference in volume of 12dB! Thus why you should stick to only looking at the subwoofer's +/- 3dB.

Also, the REL T5x is extremely overpriced for the performance that it gives. It performs as poorly as a 12 year old Logitech Z906 where it's subwoofer can go as low as 35Hz. Yet, that PC speaker setup gets you a 5.1 system at just $550 along with the subwoofer vs the $1000++ REL T5x with only the subwoofer. Ouch.

FYI, my own sub is only rated to go down to 35 Hz but with test tone tracks it could reproduce 20 Hz well and the sub bass was good, so specs might not tell the whole story.

You could read online and Youtube reviews and impressions to death, but at the end of the day, still better to go down personally to audition and let our ears be the final judge. Your argument is kind of like saying that airport runway girls will never be as beautiful as more well endowed ones. There were so many times that I expected to be blown away by a well-reviewed particular speaker or component only to be extremely underwhelmed. Conversely, there were times that I was pleasantly surprised by setups that I thought would not sound so good. It might really come down to personal preference at the end and it is perfectly fine that you might not like a very well-reviewed and rated stuff.

I've heard both Rel T5X and SB-1000Pro. I think they could be equally satisfying depending on what sound you are looking for.

 

[LiLAsN]

FYI, my own sub is only rated to go down to 35 Hz but with test tone tracks it could reproduce 20 Hz well and the sub bass was good, so specs might not tell the whole story.

You could read online and Youtube reviews and impressions to death, but at the end of the day, still better to go down personally to audition and let our ears be the final judge. Your argument is kind of like saying that airport runway girls will never be as beautiful as more well endowed ones. There were so many times that I expected to be blown away by a well-reviewed particular speaker or component only to be extremely underwhelmed. Conversely, there were times that I was pleasantly surprised by setups that I thought would not sound so good. It might really come down to personal preference at the end and it is perfectly fine that you might not like a very well-reviewed and rated stuff.

I've heard both Rel T5X and SB-1000Pro. I think they could be equally satisfying depending on what sound you are looking for.

Obviously, the subwoofer will still be producing some sort of sound even below 35Hz. As mentioned, at 35Hz, it is producing the sound at around the same volume as the rest of the frequency range. However, below 35Hz, it starts to lose volume. It does not mean that it stops producing sound. (It's a downward curve outside of the ±3 dB frequency response range)
So yes, there will be sound down to 20Hz depending on the subwoofer because I have subwoofers that cannot produce tactile bass that low.
But, when you are playing music that has all the instruments playing at different frequencies but at around the same targeted volume, the sound that is 34Hz and below will be drowned out because it cannot be as loud as the rest of the frequency range at the same volume. And there lies the problem.

Imagine you are playing a movie or music at 85dB. But, your subwoofer can only play audio at the 20Hz range at 50dB. The audio at the 20Hz range will be drowned out by all the other frequency of audio that is playing at your default volume of 85dB.

That is why the best way is still to have a UMIK microphone and a free software like REW to have a look at the frequency response of your subwoofer. You can hear all you want. But our ear-o-meters are not as accurate and definitely not a good indicator in telling you what's good and what's not good especially if you lack experience of a real subwoofer to begin with.

When the REL T5x costs around the same price as the SVS SB-1000 Pro, and here, we have not just any random bloke doing YouTube but people with the instruments that can measure which is exactly how the manufacturers of these subwoofers measure their subwoofer to derive their ±3 dB frequency response figures. But yet, here, we have people like you recommending others to ignore all factual figures and instead, rely on their own ears especially to people with no experience in higher end subwoofers than what they were used to?
It's like telling someone with no cooking experience that they can cook a 5 course meal because they have eyes and hands just like any of the chefs showing their cooking recipes online and therefore, do not have to rely on a chef's cooking instructions because they can just rely on their own eyes and hands alone to know how long to cook something and know when it is done? Very perplexing.

Nevertheless, the ±3 dB frequency response down to 20Hz or below for subwoofers is not a be all, end all. What I intend for it to be is a set of standards. So that newbies looking to buy subwoofers without much prior experience has a baseline to depend on and can then look for subwoofers with that baseline in mind as a guide and go for one that suits their budget and get hands-on experience from there. At least then, they won't be short-changed with something that can not even be called a subwoofer especially when it can't even do sub-bass to begin with and yet costing as much as the real subwoofers.
It's like buying a fake Airpods for the price of the real ones. Of course, the fake Airpods can produce sounds. But their range is definitely not the full range that the real Airpods can give. Thus, the difference in sound quality. And there lies the problem which I was trying to help guide with here.

 

[dreamaurora]

Obviously, the subwoofer will still be producing some sort of sound even below 35Hz. As mentioned, at 35Hz, it is producing the sound at around the same volume as the rest of the frequency range. However, below 35Hz, it starts to lose volume. It does not mean that it stops producing sound. (It's a downward curve outside of the ±3 dB frequency response range)
So yes, there will be sound down to 20Hz depending on the subwoofer because I have subwoofers that cannot produce tactile bass that low.
But, when you are playing music that has all the instruments playing at different frequencies but at around the same targeted volume, the sound that is 34Hz and below will be drowned out because it cannot be as loud as the rest of the frequency range at the same volume. And there lies the problem.

Imagine you are playing a movie or music at 85dB. But, your subwoofer can only play audio at the 20Hz range at 50dB. The audio at the 20Hz range will be drowned out by all the other frequency of audio that is playing at your default volume of 85dB.

That is why the best way is still to have a UMIK microphone and a free software like REW to have a look at the frequency response of your subwoofer. You can hear all you want. But our ear-o-meters are not as accurate and definitely not a good indicator in telling you what's good and what's not good especially if you lack experience of a real subwoofer to begin with.

When the REL T5x costs around the same price as the SVS SB-1000 Pro, and here, we have not just any random bloke doing YouTube but people with the instruments that can measure which is exactly how the manufacturers of these subwoofers measure their subwoofer to derive their ±3 dB frequency response figures. But yet, here, we have people like you recommending others to ignore all factual figures and instead, rely on their own ears especially to people with no experience in higher end subwoofers than what they were used to?
It's like telling someone with no cooking experience that they can cook a 5 course meal because they have eyes and hands just like any of the chefs showing their cooking recipes online and therefore, do not have to rely on a chef's cooking instructions because they can just rely on their own eyes and hands alone to know how long to cook something and know when it is done? Very perplexing.

Nevertheless, the ±3 dB frequency response down to 20Hz or below for subwoofers is not a be all, end all. What I intend for it to be is a set of standards. So that newbies looking to buy subwoofers without much prior experience has a baseline to depend on and can then look for subwoofers with that baseline in mind as a guide and go for one that suits their budget and get hands-on experience from there. At least then, they won't be short-changed with something that can not even be called a subwoofer especially when it can't even do sub-bass to begin with and yet costing as much as the real subwoofers.
It's like buying a fake Airpods for the price of the real ones. Of course, the fake Airpods can produce sounds. But their range is definitely not the full range that the real Airpods can give. Thus, the difference in sound quality. And there lies the problem which I was trying to help guide with here.

Well, if you feel that you would only feel good when you purchase a product that is clearly measuring better than its competitors, then good for you.

I buy hifi products to enjoy listening to music and gaming, not to run tests on them, so I don't really care how they measure. If I perceive from my ears that they provide greater enjoyment than what I have now and the price is reasonable for the improvement then I will buy them.

 

[poooooo]

Can easily test with online tone generator
https://www.rapidtables.com/tools/tone-generator.html?f=100
Measurements are good for reference/ guide if you are looking for a particular range, curve, or have to be accurate for production/ mixing purposes, but as a casual listener once I found my preferences tweaking by ear, I don't really care if the measurements are accurate or not .

 

[petetherock]

Both subjective and objective matters.
Can a sub go down to 20Hz? You can't subjectively test that.
But does it sound good, that's another view.
Then comes things like speed, and how much power is good.
Well if you want a good sub, be prepared to pay more, and the smaller it is, the more you pay for the same output.
My go to sealed sub is the JL Audio E112. But if you don't mind a ported, the PC 2000 Pro from SVS is good too.
And yes, it goes far deeper than the SVS Micro 3000, and measures so. The bass energy, depth and power is significantly more and better. Speed? Well, that's fine if you need it for music that tails off at 80Hz.
So it all depends on your needs. YMMV

 

[Vodkilla]

SVS subs has the benefit of parametric EQ and I find the app very handy to tweak settings instead of manually accessing the sub knobs.
Sealed for gaming room (music) and Ported for living room (movies).
Recently also looked into measurements and sub placements and after room treatment (bass traps) and room correction (Minidsp - Dirac)... the listening experience improved DRASTICALLY.
Most people won't realize that because they think after buying good gear it is enough so quite wasted.

 

[LiLAsN]

People are spending more than a thousand dollars on these subwoofers that they intend to use for years.
And bass is usually what is most affected by the surrounding environments.
It may sound great in the showroom. But once you get it home and there are no bass traps, expect a very different bass curve (and therefore sound) than what you hear at the showroom. I will never go down to a showroom to hear a subwoofer when it is easily the most affected by the environment resonating with the bass which can cause peaks and dips in some of the frequency ranges.
As an example, the KEF KC62 has built-in EQs meant for the locations that you place your subwoofer in. Room, Corner, Cabinet and so on. The bass frequency sweeps that I did defers wildly between EQs as expected since depending on the placement of your subwoofer and the condition of the room that it is in, the bass will sound a lot worst than it ever has been in a well treated showroom due to how much the room resonates with the bass frequency.

Thus my advice to not just depend on your hearing but also look at the frequency response. They are provided by the companies as a specification of the subwoofer on their own site. There's no need to refer to Reviewers who also give frequency responses though it will really help a lot too. Like buying anything else, we would at least do a bit of research to know what's right for us. And not just depend blindly on salesmen on the stores which are encouraged to move the slow moving and usually, poor performing products, off the store to clueless customers.

It is a shame that such poor advice is passed off to poor unsuspecting customers. And then here, we have them justifying that it's alright to give poor advice to others and in fact, it's much more encouraged than to refer to specifications and features to compare with like with any other product that we usually buy.

My advice was simple. Look at the frequency responses of the subwoofers within your price budget. Make sure they do the full sub bass range and then, you can opt to go down and hear both for yourself and choose which one you like better. It is a lot better than going in blind, listening to marketing as opposed to genuine advice and then being fooled by more than a thousand dollars for a poor performing product. My aim is to not want others to get cheated out of their money.

I am glad users like Vodkilla has benefited from all the factually good advice that has been given by others. I too agree that if you have a subwoofer and you cannot get your room treated, using a Room Correction software which typically does Parametric EQ as opposed to regular EQ where you can't EQ a lot of the frequency range will help substantially. Room Correction software like the ones in your AVR will mathematically try to fix the sound coming out of your speakers to the microphone position which is where your ears are at.
Dirac is one of the best Room Correction softwares on the market. It not only does Parametric EQ but also time alignment and phase correction.

Do you know how the fake snake oil custom speaker cable sellers try to convince you that their cables will improve the sound of your speakers? They play with the cable length of the positive and negative along with the slight difference in length between the right and left speakers. This will have an impact on the time, however minor along with the phase. But, it will be audible to us in the form of how big the soundstage becomes. But this is how they convince you that their ludicrously expensive custom speaker cables will make a huge difference to your speakers.
Don't waste money on that. Concentrate on cable gauges. Seen as AWGs. The lower, the better. But they'll be a lot thicker. But for shorter lengths, it won't matter much since there's less resistance.
As for soundstage, sound quality and so on, I'd rather you invest your money in the best Room Correction softwares like Dirac or Anthem's ARC. So try to get AVRs with them.
They can fix a lot of issues with the room, the soundstage, your speaker imbalance in some of the frequency ranges to the best of its ability via Parametric EQ Correction. If you provide it with the speakers and subwoofer that can do the full range of 20Hz to 130Hz for the subwoofer and 70Hz to 20,000Hz for the speakers with the help of the spec's Frequency Response at ±3 dB, it will greatly help the Room Correction software. Then, you can use the Room Correction software to adjust the frequency curve to your taste.

That's how versatile a Room Correction software is vs buying a physical hardware like a subwoofer with a horrible frequency response that you cannot change the sound curve as much if you do not like how it sounds in your home.
Thus, the best advice that I can give is to research on a speaker that gives as flat of a frequency response graph as much as possible. And then do the same for the subwoofer. And then get an AVR with Dirac like the Denon X3800H or the Marantz Cinema 50. This is the cheapest and most value oriented things that you can buy in the Audio space and get the most out of your audio system.

Without having to buy expensive snake oil cables (Remember, speaker cables are literally just copper wires that is used in almost everything electronic because it is the best and cheapest there is) and other snake oil lidden consumer audio products, a very capable speaker and subwoofer coupled with an AVR with the fantastic Room Correction software can help you tweak the sound signature of the said speakers and subwoofer to suit your taste via Parametric EQ. And you can change the sound signature on the fly. Something that you cannot do with a poor performing speaker or subwoofer with wild spikes in the frequency response graph that the trustworthy reviewers that show you the graphs can provide you with.

Whenever possible, do not listen to subjective reviewers and advices online. Remember, just like in school, our expectations and taste differs wildly from one another. Some are happy to get 50/100. Others expect at least a 90. But the problem is, we can't read their minds and know what their standards are. So anyone can just say this subwoofer greatly improves my audio experience. But we do not know where they were coming from before and whether their taste is the same as yours. Thus, you'll be receiving extremely bad advice not catered to your own standards and taste. Thus, with an objective graph, you'll be able to narrow down what subwoofers meet the criteria of being an actual subwoofer. And then, you can go down and see or maybe hear what they sound like but knowing that whichever you end up with at home, their flatter graph means that you can fix many issues with the subwoofer based on how the room and the things in your room is making the subwoofer sound bloated in some frequency range thanks to having a Room Correction software.
No need to waste money trying to fix issues with your speakers with power cables and so on where you can't predict whether it will improve your audio until you've already bought it and then regretting it when it improves so slightly or even none after that.
You'll save a ton of money that can be used into maybe adding more speakers over time to create a Dolby Atmos or DTS:X setup in the future. And not to mention, having a Home Theatre System that you will be happy with for a very long time. No need to go back to forums trying to ask for more advice on the next best speakers or wires when you already have speakers that are flat and therefore is easier to EQ with the Room Correction software which can fix your room issues long into moving the system to a different room or moving houses or adding newer speakers.

I can tell you this. Armed with the information provided by useful sites like AudioScienceReview and AudioHolics, I bought the Elac Debut 2.0 speakers and they do sound amazing. It became even more amazing thanks to Room Correction software trying to fix any faults in the speakers' sound reproduction. When I replaced the front speakers with the KEF R3 which was rated one of the highest on ASR back then, I became underwhelmed. The improvement was extremely minor. Just a slightly better specular highlight details in the high frequency range. But minor. Everything else sounded the same thanks to Dirac correcting the speaker time, phase and imbalance in the sound reproduction. For the price I paid for the KEF R3s versus the Elac Debut 2.0 speakers, the price to performance is not worth it. But again, this is expected thanks to how much Dirac fixes a lot of issues along with the score of the Elac Debut being high up and close to the more expensive KEF R3s.
Basically, what I am saying is that the objective graphs and objective reviews are in line with my own subjective experience.

For those who are value oriented and wants the best performance for the price, I will recommend the newer and better scoring,
Speakers: Elac Debut Reference series of speakers (it has a flatter frequency response) or the Elac Debut 2.0 (way cheaper now)
Subwoofer: SVS SB-2000 PRO or the SVS SB-1000 PRO if you want a smaller subwoofer (not the one without the 'PRO' model)
AVR Receiver: Denon X3800H or Marantz Cinema 50 (the cheapest AVRs that has Dirac Live Room Correction built-in on the market)

If any of you have any questions, just quote me here and I'll try my best to help. You can even quote our well versed in the audio and video world moderator, petetherock as well. He has pinned threads in this subforum giving you great advice if you wish to know more into detail on Home Theatre Products and what to look out for all things audio and video related. There are many very useful links that he quoted to from credible sources in the audio industry.

 

[boxerfan]

20Hz -3dB is just one data point, not the most important at all in choosing a subwoofer.

The room dominates below about 200Hz. It is more important to find a subwoofer that blends well with YOUR room, not the showroom.

Go play REW, and get a shock of your life...see the huge cancellation hole(s)/dip(s) in the bass region (can be more than -20dB), caused by the room...

Lest we forget, placing a sub against a wall, or corner, one gets for "free gain" between +3dB to +6dB gain (sometimes more) in the bass region. Therefore a subwoofer that performs at 20Hz -6dB might still work for some.

 

[dreamaurora]

I don't let reviews on websites like Stereophile, HifiPig, ParttimeAudiophile, etc, influence my purchasing decisions, but they do provide useful starting points to start auditioning gears in showrooms or home demos. Even if the reviewers praise a product until got dragon got tiger, I will still insist on auditions.

A lot of the more expensive audiophile equipment surprisingly have barebone features. An amp I plan to get that is close to 10K has no biwiring support, no sub out, no room correction, no tonal control. It's just an...amp. But once you hear it, man, who cares.

I think just keep an open mind in this hobby, yeah. The good news here is the entry point to decent audiophile setup is actually getting chepear. The prices of the really premium hifi products are getting out of hand, but nowadays you can easily get a really nice sounding setup for less than 2K total.

 

[Wusplay]

When it come music listening, the integration of sub with your speakers is far more important than how low it can go or reaching 20hz.

I had tried Dirac. Quite useful and it does bring improvement. But if the sound characteristic of the sub don’t go well with your soeaker, room correction also can’t help to solve the problem. For eg my SVS SB3000 simply not good enough to partner my speakers. End up I give it to my friend for HT.

One more thing, many of my friends advice me not to argue with ASR followers on the misguided interpretation on measurement especially with dac and cables. No use if one don’t do A/B themselves or have the hearing ability.