Discussion | Beverage Container Return Scheme

[DragonFire]

That’s why ordinary folks should represent a least 30% or more of the law makers so policies are useful irl. Not just good for paper. Thinking about plastic bag charge scheme, I still believe originally, each household gets their trash bag from ntuc or supermarket and throw away 7-20 a day.
versus now
each family buys 50-100 each time and throw away 7-20 a day plus those in stocks but deteriorated.

Ordinary folk with a brain often concede after attending a few planning sessions when they finally realize the many layers of reasoning behind each decision. Reasoning not based on hearsay by by detailed analysis of real statistical data and field observations.

The leadership of the country is in the business of generational engineering. And they are pretty damn good at that.

You see the nubile youth - children and grandchildren - staring at boomers with disdain in their eyes when they see you using disposable plastic? That’s success right there.

 

[Uncle Lorger]

I think once the existing unlabeled stock is gone, this thread will become the place for people to post that the machine is full and they cannot return

 

[Encouragesome1]

Ordinary folk with a brain often concede after attending a few planning sessions when they finally realize the many layers of reasoning behind each decision. Reasoning not based on hearsay by by detailed analysis of real statistical data and field observations.

I attended a few of the national celebrations eg ndp, rc, nlb, museums those we g sponsored events, everything uses lot plastics and waste-generating stuff versus olden days events.

The leadership of the country is in the business of generational engineering. And they are pretty damn good at that.

We are pretty good compared to surrounding guys. But we definitely got room to improve we are not invincible just because we got good track record in the past 6x year building the country.

I also know that we don’t get here now cos we think we pretty good. We kept going to better smarter wiser guys to learn and improve with stats and data and finetuning.

You see the nubile youth - children and grandchildren - staring at boomers with disdain in their eyes when they see you using disposable plastic? That’s success right there.

I agree with you yet I see how they “use” resources and how they order take out more often than not. How strawberry some of them are, I worry the next lot of us more than I’m proud of us.

 

[DragonFire]

I think once the existing unlabeled stock is gone, this thread will become the place for people to post that the machine is full and they cannot return

Agreed. It will be fixed though. Full machines imply program success. Machines will be shuffled around, maybe logistics improved or even new machines added.

This program is INSANELY lucrative if you crunch the math.

The 5.5m returns represents less than 2% of the containers sold. When the program goes full swing… just do the math.

 

[DragonFire]

I agree with you yet I see how they “use” resources and how they order take out more often than not. How strawberry some of them are, I worry the next lot of us more than I’m proud of us.

It is a concern… but I think they have to figure out their own paths even as we depart from the mortal coil.

We all love to use Sweden as a benchmark, and our strawberries are probably personified by the Stockholm kids.

 

[deepblue_82]

Agreed. It will be fixed though. Full machines imply program success. Machines will be shuffled around, maybe logistics improved or even new machines added.

This program is INSANELY lucrative if you crunch the math.

The 5.5m returns represents less than 2% of the containers sold. When the program goes full swing… just do the math.

if 5.5m is only 2% of the containers.. its win for the PAP but loss for the ppl who paid higher price for the drinks
its like NTUC saying which did happen on how much $ was earn on the plastic bag was earn. its sudden became "profit"... even so they say cannot be recorded as profit. said the collected to be used for social welfare and environmental stuff....
plus the mandatory charge is only for large retailers who have a annual turnover of over 100$ mil

in short we over paid each time we buy something to drink
my own 2 cents dont shoot me

 

[Joseph12]

I think once the existing unlabeled stock is gone, this thread will become the place for people to post that the machine is full and they cannot return

Ya
They need to keep up
Though there's some machines I see is doubly big

Anyway I notice the machine actually crush the cans and bottles
You can hear the crushing sound when bottles thrown in
So no issue throwing in 200? Per machine daily

 

[Joseph12]

if 5.5m is only 2% of the containers.. its win for the PAP but loss for the ppl who paid higher price for the drinks
its like NTUC saying which did happen on how much $ was earn on the plastic bag was earn. its sudden became "profit"... even so they say cannot be recorded as profit. said the collected to be used for social welfare and environmental stuff....
plus the mandatory charge is only for large retailers who have a annual turnover of over 100$ mil

in short we over paid each time we buy something to drink
my own 2 cents dont shoot me

I'm not sure where the 2% figure came from
I don't see that in media reports

And its not even 5.5 million cans per month
Its 5.5 million returned
Which can mean 5.5 million cans circulated in 3 to 4 months

 

[DragonFire]

if 5.5m is only 2% of the containers.. its win for the PAP but loss for the ppl who paid higher price for the drinks
its like NTUC saying which did happen on how much $ was earn on the plastic bag was earn. its sudden became "profit"... even so they say cannot be recorded as profit. said the collected to be used for social welfare and environmental stuff....
plus the mandatory charge is only for large retailers who have a annual turnover of over 100$ mil

in short we over paid each time we buy something to drink
my own 2 cents dont shoot me

your concerns are absolutely valid.

It could of course be decanted down to choice.

We retain the choice to return for 10c. It is a forced choice, but a choice nevertheless.

The other takeaway is that we have the choice not to consume.

 

[DragonFire]

I'm not sure where the 2% figure came from
I don't see that in media reports

And its not even 5.5 million cans per month
Its 5.5 million returned
Which can mean 5.5 million cans circulated in 3 to 4 months

That was *my* napkin math based on the "more than one billion beverage containers used each year" quoted in official propaganda.

it is as you said. 5.5m containers collected in 4 months. I never said anything about per month.

Normalizing everything that would mean 22m collected in 1 year. Rounding things that's about 2% of 1b containers.

I am fairly sure I did not misplace any decimal point.

 

[DragonFire]

BTW I noticed in official publications there is a bit of a collection/payout mismatch.

They claim 5.5m collections but only $100k payout. So only 1m, were valid?

Perhaps they counted collection attempts not successful collections.

Numbers are being skewed because a lot of old inventory is circulating.

 

[deepblue_82]

I'm not sure where the 2% figure came from
I don't see that in media reports

And its not even 5.5 million cans per month
Its 5.5 million returned
Which can mean 5.5 million cans circulated in 3 to 4 months

https://www.straitstimes.com/singap...scheme-with-over-1-million-successful-refunds

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/beverage-container-return-scheme-collected-6299836

"since apr 1st till aug 1st"

 

[deepblue_82]

BCRS Ltd, which is responsible for the collection and recycling of containers on behalf of beverage producers, is the scheme's not-for-profit operator. It is formed by a consortium of beverage producers comprising Coca-Cola Singapore Beverages, F&N Foods and Pokka.

Responding to the MP's question, Dr Puthucheary said BCRS Ltd is funded through producer fees and the revenue from the sale of recyclables collected.

wah really own self talk own self happy left pocket right pocket

 

[pewpewpewpewpew]

Finally after a month, they acknowledged my manual refund request and will now start looking into it. And it could take 30 days to put into my bank account. Seriously... They should have adopted those shopping mall app OCR systems to process and distribute the refunds!!! Why so backward?

really stupid they recently replied me that my photo of the receipt for 10c was not accepted but they need some manual review

 

[standarture]

BTW I noticed in official publications there is a bit of a collection/payout mismatch.

They claim 5.5m collections but only $100k payout. So only 1m, were valid?

Perhaps they counted collection attempts not successful collections.

Numbers are being skewed because a lot of old inventory is circulating.

Exactly. I haven't been paid (manual refund) since my return since 1 month ago. There is a huge accounting discrepancy.

 

[wongkc]

Agreed. It will be fixed though. Full machines imply program success. Machines will be shuffled around, maybe logistics improved or even new machines added.

This program is INSANELY lucrative if you crunch the math.

The 5.5m returns represents less than 2% of the containers sold. When the program goes full swing… just do the math.

Lucrative for who?

If my math is correct.. BCRS will lose more money or earn lesser if they recycle more...

It takes 60-70cans to have 1Kg of aluminium... thats $6-7 returned to consumers... but scrap aluminium only costs btw $1.50-3.00... BCRS loses $3 for every 1Kg recycled...

Even if they earn from a fixed contributions from manufacturers and importers... and every can/bottle have a small administrative fee... I suppose it is much less than the 10cents...

In fact... they "earn" from unredeemed/unclaimed 10cents deposit... they earn more if pple doesn't return the cans/bottles... quite ironic isn't it... BCRS is formed to promote recycling... but yet their profit/sustainability depends on pple not recycling!

 

[deepblue_82]

i return weekly once... when i go to the supermarket...
so far i only see once.. says that is container is almost full..

 

[DragonFire]

Lucrative for who?

If my math is correct.. BCRS will lose more money or earn lesser if they recycle more...

It takes 60-70cans to have 1Kg of aluminium... thats $6-7 returned to consumers... but scrap aluminium only costs btw $1.50-3.00... BCRS loses $3 for every 1Kg recycled...

Even if they earn from a fixed contributions from manufacturers and importers... and every can/bottle have a small administrative fee... I suppose it is much less than the 10cents...

In fact... they "earn" from unredeemed/unclaimed 10cents deposit... they earn more if pple doesn't return the cans/bottles... quite ironic isn't it... BCRS is formed to promote recycling... but yet their profit/sustainability depends on pple not recycling!

That is why only tariffed cans can be accepted to the program. The 10c paid at point of purchase is the only thing keeping the program relatively cost neutral.

Correct, Al cans are worth only 3-4c each making a 10c payout a net loss. However that 3-4c is on top of the 10c already paid into the system.

It is also correct that many of these programs expect a certain number of claims to not be made for them to be sustainable.

You be right IMO that the scheme will make less if recycling goes up. However, I wouldn’t call it a loss maker since it is buffered by the 10c tariff per can.

 

[babysimba]

If really serious on recycling, they would have instead chosen to standardize and use glass bottles for all drinks manufacturer.

 

[Joseph12]

Exactly. I haven't been paid (manual refund) since my return since 1 month ago. There is a huge accounting discrepancy.

Use EZ link can be immediate right