EndowUs Roboadvisor: investing using CPF

[Mr. Wood]

Idk why you look at it that way, can you explain? Shouldn't it be more from a minimum per transaction basis rather than a minimum per year basis?

I am doing $1.2k a month with one transaction and with $2 agent bank fee that is just slightly less than 0.2% one off for my monthly investment. Even at $500 it is only 0.25% recurring>

i calculate by lump sum simply to avoid too much transaction costs. of coz can do DCA, but hav to calculate ownself wht is acceptable r/r.

take your case, $1.2k/mth, so overall 1yr slightly above 0.2%. including transaction and holding fees. add to edowus 0.4% overall is ard 0.6%. to me might as well use cash for better funds and liquidity.

 

[VanquishShadow]

i calculate by lump sum simply to avoid too much transaction costs. of coz can do DCA, but hav to calculate ownself wht is acceptable r/r.

take your case, $1.2k/mth, so overall 1yr slightly above 0.2%. including transaction and holding fees. add to edowus 0.4% overall is ard 0.6%. to me might as well use cash for better funds and liquidity.

I think it really depends on individual circumstance.

I also have Cash investments in Endowus, alongside CPF. Even taking into account Endowus's access fee for CPF + the Agent Bank's transaction & holding fees for CPF-IS, I would invest both Cash as well as CPF.

My key reason is that, for CPF, I cannot touch the money until 20+ years from now, it is perfect for long-term investment horizon. Of course, I can choose to leave it in my OA and earn 2.5% or my SA and earn 4%, but to me, both of these would lose out to a diversified equity-centric portfolio in the long run.

 

[dappermen]

The service fee will be charged quarterly no matter if there's any transaction / inactivity?

I remember 20+ years ago when I worked in CPFB, I saw quite a number of people lose money in their investment account and many actually lose money becos of service fee, even they never trade.

service fee will be charged quarterly so long there is “holding” hence
I m surprised did those who used oa sa to invest did account for those quarterly amount????

of cos big amt Cpf investor would find this “negligible”

 

[RedsYWNA]

I think it really depends on individual circumstance.

I also have Cash investments in Endowus, alongside CPF. Even taking into account Endowus's access fee for CPF + the Agent Bank's transaction & holding fees for CPF-IS, I would invest both Cash as well as CPF.

My key reason is that, for CPF, I cannot touch the money until 20+ years from now, it is perfect for long-term investment horizon. Of course, I can choose to leave it in my OA and earn 2.5% or my SA and earn 4%, but to me, both of these would lose out to a diversified equity-centric portfolio in the long run.

As much as I am a fan of Endowus CPF OA options, for cash options, I think Vanguard and Ishares offer lower fees with a higher chance of success.

I understand the part about Dimensional factor investing, but I rather believe in simple index investing, esp as Vanguard and Ishares offer much lower costs.

For SRS, I am v much on the fence, as there arent a lot of gd options via the brokerages.......

 

[s0crates]

This guy really messed up. Investing CPF = gambling retirement away?? You would expect a straits times editor to share more perspectives and give a more balanced view. Seems like he is treating this as his own blog post and no one in SPH is editing it.

Straits times really CMI.

 

[ExEngineer]

This guy really messed up. Investing CPF = gambling retirement away?? You would expect a straits times editor to share more perspectives and give a more balanced view. Seems like he is treating this as his own blog post and no one in SPH is editing it.

Straits times really CMI.

This was a bizarre article - I read it in the weekend paper.

At best it was confusing, at worst it was scaremongering detached from reality.

Of course it makes sense to remind anyone who’s contemplating CPFIS to consider the risks/uncertainty vs practically-guaranteed 2.5% OA and 4% SA.

But the way this article was written was as if CPFIS allowed you to invest in Gamestop!

As it is I think CPF is fairly/reasonably conservative in filtering which investment options are permitted for CPFIS. Are there really a lot of people who have actually “gambled away” their CPF funds via CPFIS?!

 

[s0crates]

This was a bizarre article - I read it in the weekend paper.

At best it was confusing, at worst it was scaremongering detached from reality.

Of course it makes sense to remind anyone who’s contemplating CPFIS to consider the risks/uncertainty vs practically-guaranteed 2.5% OA and 4% SA.

But the way this article was written was as if CPFIS allowed you to invest in Gamestop!

As it is I think CPF is fairly/reasonably conservative in filtering which investment options are permitted for CPFIS. Are there really a lot of people who have actually “gambled away” their CPF funds via CPFIS?!

Many people lost money because CPF allowed financial advisors/bank RMs to charge ridiculous sales charges and wrap fees, along with high fund TER (which they also earn trailer fees from!!).

CPF investing got it's bad rep from there, but the current CPF system of no sales charges and 0.4% p.a. wrap fees is more reasonable.

Idk what that chap is writing about, but yes the article is bizzare and offered an awfully biased perspective.

 

[psyfy]

My CPF OA returns on Endowus so far. Started on 20th Feb 2020 and is 80% Equities and 20% Fixed Income. In the 20-30 years horizon the broad based market will have a far higher likelihood of beating the 2.5% in OA so I consider this a good start.

 

[iceblendedchoc]

This guy really messed up. Investing CPF = gambling retirement away?? You would expect a straits times editor to share more perspectives and give a more balanced view. Seems like he is treating this as his own blog post and no one in SPH is editing it.

Straits times really CMI.

he lack lorna tan's ability.

 

[iceblendedchoc]

The service fee will be charged quarterly no matter if there's any transaction / inactivity?

I remember 20+ years ago when I worked in CPFB, I saw quite a number of people lose money in their investment account and many actually lose money becos of service fee, even they never trade.

CPFB should abolish this fee if they are serious in helping CPF members. $2 per trade is too much for a DCA strategy for most members. should reduce to $1

 

[hkchew03]

My CPF OA returns on Endowus so far. Started on 20th Feb 2020 and is 80% Equities and 20% Fixed Income. In the 20-30 years horizon the broad based market will have a far higher likelihood of beating the 2.5% in OA so I consider this a good start.

Can't complain. Started at around the same time, but with DCA. The sudden drop is due to re-balancing from 60/40 to 80/20. Don't really care about whatever fee and the $2.14 transaction cost, as long as overall beat CPFOA will do. 2020 is a great year!

 

[FinalDestiny...]

Mine's +15.47% on a 60/40 portfolio, fixed initial investment in Dec 2019.

Overall I think most should be doing okay with a reasonable time horizon.

 

[psyfy]

Over a 20-30 years horizon I'd be happy if my CPF OA investments with Endowus can net me 6% average per annum. Am hoping it will be 8% but I'd take 6% anytime. A few people already posted gains of more than 15% in the posts above and am happy for them. Huat ah!

 

[s0crates]

Endowus Launch Cash Smart Ultra. Seems like they revised up Enhanced rates to 1.5%p.a. and also shared the Cash Smart outperformance in general.

Ultra seems significantly higher risk, hope not many people invest it purely for yield.

 

[VanquishShadow]

Endowus Launch Cash Smart Ultra. Seems like they revised up Enhanced rates to 1.5%p.a. and also shared the Cash Smart outperformance in general.

Ultra seems significantly higher risk, hope not many people invest it purely for yield.

I like how they conduct these outreach efforts to explain about the different compositions and risk/return trade-offs. The rest is really up to the individual to DYDD and to figure out what their individual needs are - from my personal observation that part is harder

 

[VanquishShadow]

CPFB should abolish this fee if they are serious in helping CPF members. $2 per trade is too much for a DCA strategy for most members. should reduce to $1

I wrote to CPF to state my view that the $2 per transaction fee is basically a kind of sales charge. For agent bank to perform one transaction versus 100 transaction, the cost involved isn't $2 versus $200, in this day and age where everything is automated and electronic, and scaling up no. of txns involves very negligible variable cost. Hope too that eventually this fee can be abolished.

 

[SuperDecker]

I wrote to CPF to state my view that the $2 per transaction fee is basically a kind of sales charge. For agent bank to perform one transaction versus 100 transaction, the cost involved isn't $2 versus $200, in this day and age where everything is automated and electronic, and scaling up no. of txns involves very negligible variable cost. Hope too that eventually this fee can be abolished.

And there is a quarterly service fee to add salt. I'm very bias against these banks.

 

[s0crates]

There is something fundamentally wrong - we get all these useless paper statements telling us about our cpf/SRS investments, and we get charged if there are insufficient balances when we try to invest?

Something is bad about the workflow and I believe regulation/ past precedence has a part to play. Not sure if government will ever care about this though

And there is a quarterly service fee to add salt. I'm very bias against these banks.

 

[dappermen]

Mine's +15.47% on a 60/40 portfolio, fixed initial investment in Dec 2019.

Overall I think most should be doing okay with a reasonable time horizon.

So the return is 15.47% fr dec19 ie abt 1.5years??

 

[silverbomb]

This guy really messed up. Investing CPF = gambling retirement away?? You would expect a straits times editor to share more perspectives and give a more balanced view. Seems like he is treating this as his own blog post and no one in SPH is editing it.

Straits times really CMI.

i was appalled to see this kind of writing when i read it, especially in this age and time. 10-20 years ago still can pass editorial, but this at this time is simply poor editorial vetting to let it pass.