From integrated shield plan back to default Medishield Life.

reddevil0728

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Of cos its not entirely true, only people without common sense can interpret it at the extremes.
lets no conflate common sense with lack of clarity leading to misinterpretation.
Medicine is a skilled profession, good doctors can command a higher salary and majority of them want to do so.
You suggest "majority" want to do so. Can you please advise how you know it's the majority?
There are always exceptions where exceptionally good doctors are in the public setting because they want to serve the greater good. But ppl should not be planning based on the exceptions.
I don't think it is the suggestion about planning based on exceptions. I don't think you engaged in the point about

If you are frequent user of healthcare, going for pte insurance makes sense. but if you aren't, then getting a class, and top up when required to use pte care might make more sense. see BBCW's post.
You should just plan on the rule of thumb, the more you pay the higher chance you will get better care.
that might be true, might that doesn't mean one cannot optimise the cost.
And my statement is just simply pte insurance is not about the luxury of sleeping in pte wards, but it gets you access to the full range of pte doctors without worrying as much about the bills as you would have otherwise with a lower tier insurance. But of cos if you like to interpret it at the extreme ends and imply what I am saying is all lower tier insurance are bad, only pte doctors are good, pte insurance means everything is free and so on, then feel free to do so.
again i don't think you engaged in points that have addressed this.

see BBCW's post.
 

BBCWatcher

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Bombshell, you can still go to any specialist you wish regardless of how you're insured (or not insured) as long as you can afford it. All doctors in Singapore accept Singapore dollars. They still work. But if you're going to follow that logic you really ought to consult with a specialist outside Singapore. It's presumptuous to assume the "best" specialist is specifically located in Singapore. That's probably not true.

Also, the public sector — NUS as a notable example — invests in medical research. The private sector really doesn't do that. There are significant skill and specialization advantages when medical research and applied care are combined. Moreover, it's the public sector that has certain facilities and equipment that the private sector won't buy. The best neonatal intensive care unit (NICU) is probably KK Hospital's. Up until fairly recently the private hospitals didn't even attempt to provide the most sophisticated neonatal care, and they sent all their "hard" cases to KK Hospital. (Assuming KK Hospital had a NICU crib beyond what their own patients required. That was a bit of risk.) Likewise, I probably wouldn't want to go to a private hospital for a trauma wound. I'd want the closest thing possible to whatever medical care NSmen get, and that's in the public sector. And does any private hospital even have a hyperbaric chamber, to treat deep sea diving incidents? Any specialists who care for any such patients?

But OK, no problem, a private specialist (inside or outside Singapore) is on the menu as a possibility. Now, how are you going to pay for that particular care? With some combination of cash, MediSave, and insurance. The insurance part can be "buffet" or "a la carte." The buffet costs more up front, so you have less cash after you buy it. It's a poor choice if you expect you'll "dabble" in the private sector. It's probably a good choice if you expect you'll be a "heavy eater" (use a lot of private specialist care).

I only say "probably" because a private hospital Integrated Shield plan isn't the only insurance choice even if you expect to be a "heavy user" of private specialist care. You could buy (as an example) true "expat-style" medical insurance from global carriers such as Aetna or Cigna. I've had that type of coverage before (employer-provided). It was great. After a US$100 annual deductible (I think) it paid for everything...and I mean EVERYTHING. Even dental checkups and prescription eyewear. A visit to a hospital emergency room in a foreign country? No problem, fully paid. (And that was quite a big bill.) Of course I paid for that platinum plated coverage indirectly (via reduced employment compensation in other forms), but it's another available choice. There are such plans available in the individual medical insurance market if you'd like to buy one.
 

sohguanh

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Moreover, it's the public sector that has certain facilities and equipment that the private sector won't buy. The best neonatal intensive care unit (NICU) is probably KK Hospital's. Up until fairly recently the private hospitals didn't even attempt to provide the most sophisticated neonatal care, and they sent all their "hard" cases to KK Hospital. (Assuming KK Hospital had a NICU crib beyond what their own patients required. That was a bit of risk.)
When I was in KKH and I personally saw how ambulance push out women that are from private hospital. Women wrist got tag that say which hospital and I overheard the nurse muttering among themselves becuz these cases sent to them are the "hard" case. That was 15-16 years ago so not sure now is still the same practice. It seems all hard case private will push to KKH so is it really about equipment lacking in private hospital?
 

reddevil0728

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When I was in KKH and I personally saw how ambulance push out women that are from private hospital. Women wrist got tag that say which hospital and I overheard the nurse muttering among themselves becuz these cases sent to them are the "hard" case. That was 15-16 years ago so not sure now is still the same practice. It seems all hard case private will push to KKH so is it really about equipment lacking in private hospital?
Public Hospitals are acute hospitals. So any emergency cases get sent there.

in public hospital, you have the weight of the entire healthcare sector behind you. while in private. it's more relationship of doctors
 

sohguanh

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Public Hospitals are acute hospitals. So any emergency cases get sent there.

in public hospital, you have the weight of the entire healthcare sector behind you. while in private. it's more relationship of doctors
So I gather it is by law all emergency get sent to KKH for my example? Even if say private hospital got the equipment and means by standard operating procedures they are to send to KKH correct?
 

reddevil0728

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So I gather it is by law all emergency get sent to KKH for my example? Even if say private hospital got the equipment and means by standard operating procedures they are to send to KKH correct?
If you are talking about emergency situation in private hospital?

if doctor cannot handle then they decide.
 

sohguanh

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If you are talking about emergency situation in private hospital?

if doctor cannot handle then they decide.
When you say doctor cannot handle you are referring to those private hospital doctor correct? In order to go private they must be good so if even they cannot handle they will push to public hospital hoping more capable doctors there to handle correct? Then I really pity those doctors in public hospital
 

reddevil0728

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When you say doctor cannot handle you are referring to those private hospital doctor correct? In order to go private they must be good so if even they cannot handle they will push to public hospital hoping more capable doctors there to handle correct? Then I really pity those doctors in public hospital
Emergency is different situation.

and again is not private hospital means quite good.

they are just like public hospital specialist but they are willing to do business hence they become private
 

BBCWatcher

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When you call 995 in a genuine emergency to get a SCDF ambulance by default it’ll take you to the nearest compatible public hospital A&E department. It will not take you to any private hospital.

”Compatible” means adult men wouldn’t be taken to KK Hospital’s A&E even if it’s the closest.
 

reddevil0728

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BBCWatcher

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Not necessarily.
Yes, “genuine emergency“ is doing some lifting in what I wrote. Raffles A&E doesn’t get any patients with life threatening conditions. There are other exclusions too.

Good point, though. If Raffles Hospital happens to be your closest hospital then you could end up there in an urgent (enough need for an ambulance) but not too dire medical situation. I don’t think Raffles has a big catchment, but there are some HDB blocks around Lavender MRT for example that’ll probably be eligible. This arrangement probably eases a little pressure on KKH, SGH, and TTSH so their A&Es focus more on the serious cases.

Raffles says they’ll charge non-citizens/non-PRs their normal unsubsidized rates. I expect that’ll be substantially higher than what treatment would cost at a public hospital as an unsubsidized private patient. Foreigners could be in for a bill shock if they’re dropped off at Raffles A&E.
 

reddevil0728

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Yes, “genuine emergency“ is doing some lifting in what I wrote. Raffles A&E doesn’t get any patients with life threatening conditions. There are other exclusions too.
did they say so?
Good point, though. If Raffles Hospital happens to be your closest hospital then you could end up there in an urgent (enough need for an ambulance) but not too dire medical situation. I don’t think Raffles has a big catchment, but there are some HDB blocks around Lavender MRT for example that’ll probably be eligible. This arrangement probably eases a little pressure on KKH, SGH, and TTSH so their A&Es focus more on the serious cases.

Raffles says they’ll charge non-citizens/non-PRs their normal unsubsidized rates. I expect that’ll be substantially higher than what treatment would cost at a public hospital as an unsubsidized private patient. Foreigners could be in for a bill shock if they’re dropped off at Raffles A&E.
why HDB blocks only though? you mean emergency from HDB will be sent there, while any other emergency around that area wouldn't?
 

BBCWatcher

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did they say so?
Yes, the brochures have exclusions. The big one is that the patient has to be in a “non-life threatening“ condition to be brought there. One of the brochures also says it’s Monday to Friday 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM excluding public holidays. Outside those hours the SCDF ambulance will evidently take you elsewhere. Pediatric and maternity patients are excluded, too. And more.
why HDB blocks only though? you mean emergency from HDB will be sent there, while any other emergency around that area wouldn't?
No, I’m just looking at the catchment to see where big numbers of people live. The HDB blocks around Lavender MRT are an example, not the only one. Since it’s a business hours A&E then some of the CBD’s urgent (but not too urgent) office cases could end up there, the ones on the eastern side anyway that are closer than SGH would be.

It’s a little odd because if you’re admitted to Raffles Hospital you’d stay in their 4 bedded ward (their lowest class, I believe) with air conditioning and, if a SC or SPR, pay rates comparable to public hospital C ward rates. (C ward has a higher rate for SPRs, but it’s still their C ward rate.) But if you request an upgrade to a higher class ward at Raffles Hospital then all the subsidies come off and you zoom up to private sector private patient rates. So if you ordinarily want to stay in public hospital A ward this is kind of bad news, for your hospital stay anyway. (Unless you arrange a transfer if medically stable.) For every other SC or SPR it’s like winning the ambulance lottery. C ward rates at Raffles 4 bedded ward is a very good deal.
 

reddevil0728

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Yes, the brochures have exclusions. The big one is that the patient has to be in a “non-life threatening“ condition to be brought there. One of the brochures also says it’s Monday to Friday 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM excluding public holidays. Outside those hours the SCDF ambulance will evidently take you elsewhere.
right. ok "genuine emergency" you mentioned originally lacks clarity.
No, I’m just looking at the catchment to see where big numbers of people live. The HDB blocks around Lavender MRT are an example, not the only one. Since it’s a business hours A&E then some of the CBD’s urgent (but not too urgent) office cases could end up there, the ones on the eastern side anyway that are closer than SGH would be.

It’s a little odd because if you’re admitted to Raffles Hospital you’d stay in their 4 bedded ward (their lowest class, I believe) with air conditioning and, if a SC or SPR, pay rates comparable to public hospital C ward rates. (C ward has a higher rate for SPRs, but it’s still their C ward rate.) But if you request an upgrade to a higher class ward at Raffles Hospital then all the subsidies come off and you zoom up to private sector private patient rates. So if you ordinarily want to stay in public hospital A ward this is kind of bad news, for your hospital stay anyway. (Unless you arrange a transfer if medically stable.) For every other SC or SPR it’s like winning the ambulance lottery. C ward rates at Raffles 4 bedded ward is a very good deal.
Well not sure if you want to be in the lottery to begin with for such cases
 

reddevil0728

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If you have to ride an ambulance it’s good news if it arrives at Raffles A&E. It means your condition is not life threatening.
that is the sort of lottery one may not want to be even in, in the first place
 

CrashWire

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How do they calculate the diff between Class A public hosp and pte hosp for u to pay the diff?
The insurance carriers have that pricing data.
However, if you are generally healthy, but still need to see doctor every now and then, why not pay a less exponential increase insurance. A class is actually pretty decent (will address your 3rd pt later), but if you desire pte care, you can still go for it, and just top up the difference.

I don't know why the question doesn't seem to be answered properly.

Take a look at Pro-ration Factors on page 3 of this doc:

https://www-moh-gov-sg-admin.cwp.sg...l-2022/v6-comparison-of-b1-ips---apr-2022.pdf
It looks like even MediShield Life is eligible for pro-ration (page 14; note that this was published in 2015 and the pro-ration numbers are now outdated):

https://www.moh.gov.sg/docs/librari...glishinformationbookletforthenewlyinsured.pdf
From my understanding, this means that even if someone only has basic MediShield Life coverage, they are probably on the hook for maybe 80% of the cost thanks to the 25% pro-ration. Of course, according to one illustration I found, since pro-ration doesn't include the deductible and co-insurance, you might still have to pay most of a hospital bill if the final bill is quite small.
 

Value.Matrix

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I don't know why the question doesn't seem to be answered properly.

Take a look at Pro-ration Factors on page 3 of this doc:

https://www-moh-gov-sg-admin.cwp.sg...l-2022/v6-comparison-of-b1-ips---apr-2022.pdf
It looks like even MediShield Life is eligible for pro-ration (page 14; note that this was published in 2015 and the pro-ration numbers are now outdated):

https://www.moh.gov.sg/docs/librari...glishinformationbookletforthenewlyinsured.pdf
From my understanding, this means that even if someone only has basic MediShield Life coverage, they are probably on the hook for maybe 80% of the cost thanks to the 25% pro-ration. Of course, according to one illustration I found, since pro-ration doesn't include the deductible and co-insurance, you might still have to pay most of a hospital bill if the final bill is quite small.
From the way medishield life is modelled, 25% pro ration is considerable high. And you wonder why premiums keep increasing.

Why should public be paying for the rest who are going to private? That is still my question. It doesn't negate the fact that you still get support (pro-ration). 10% might be a more platable amount
 
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