FRS or ERS?

BBCWatcher

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The #1 objective of CPF LIFE is to protect against longevity risks. The payout plans vary in how well they perform in terms of longevity protection. Here’s the order:

Worst quality longevity insurance: Basic Plan
Middle quality: Standard Plan
Highest quality: Escalating Plan

That’s insurance quality to be clear, not some other attribute of the payout plans that isn’t longevity insurance.

Maybe you don’t live past age 90 or some other age. But what if you do? Insurance is all about the “What ifs.” What if you live to 98, or 101, or 105? The Escalating Plan will come closest to supporting a stable real lifestyle, to pay for essential goods and services for the rest of your life including the years when you run the greatest risk of exhausting or losing accumulated wealth: your very last years, especially if you live a long time. All other payout plan amounts definitely lose real purchasing power over the years and decades. If you want to get a rough idea how big this loss of purchasing power is then compare today’s prices for various goods and services to the prices 35 years ago. 35 years is the difference between age 65 and age 100.

Personally I stress test all retirement financial plans to age 105. The government picks 95 for such things as property pledges (for CPF withdrawals). I think 95 is way too risky for my household and progeny. If I personally know/knew 100+ year old people (yes) then it’s definitely too risky especially given the steady progress in medical science.

Now, you may not like the financial implications of a safer planning terminal age of 105 (or some other 3 digit number). That’s up to you. But the logical financial conclusions you should draw from a later planning terminal age are quite straightforward. One clear conclusion is that more and better longevity insurance helps cost-effectively mitigate longevity risks. It’s harder, and certainly more expensive, to self-insure against longevity to age 105 compared to longevity to age 95.

An important part of insuring at least adequately against longevity risk is this related goal: “I will NEVER be a financial burden on my progeny.” Many people have this objective. Both of my parents have sizable escalating life annuities. In their cases the life annuities are pegged to the Consumer Price Index where they’re retired. That means they can never be a financial burden on their children, grandchildren, or future great grandchildren. That doesn’t mean they won’t be some other burden (time burden, really) at some point. Nor does it mean we wouldn’t help financially in the alternative. But financially there’s no way they’ll fall below a reasonable real lifestyle. They could live to 115 — one of them I wouldn’t bet against in that respect — and that’s still true.
 

BBCWatcher

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A lifeguard cannot rescue anyone if the lifeguard cannot take care of her/himself. Likewise you cannot guarantee a better financial situation for progeny (lifetime gifts, bequests) unless you have the financial stamina to go the full distance no matter what.

This logical flow doesn’t mean I will definitely choose the CPF LIFE Escalating Plan. I will wait until age 69 years 10 months, consider my health status, then make a payout plan decision. If I’m in decent or better health then it’s likely I’ll choose the CPF LIFE Escalating Plan. That‘s because at that time in that situation I’ll want the best quality longevity insurance out of CPF LIFE. I will not want yet another fairly mediocre savings vehicle. I have and will have tons of investment/savings vehicles. And better yet more of those other assets will be skewed toward progeny based on their longer time horizons. I’m not going to have to hoard more wealth in lower yielding bonds. (Traditional CPF savings are basically bond-like, and when you weaken the longevity insurance part that’s the trade.)
 

dork32

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This logical flow doesn’t mean I will definitely choose the CPF LIFE Escalating Plan. I will wait until age 69 years 10 months, consider my health status, then make a payout plan decision. If I’m in decent or better health then it’s likely I’ll choose the CPF LIFE Escalating Plan. That‘s because at that time in that situation I’ll want the best quality longevity insurance out of CPF LIFE. I will not want yet another fairly mediocre savings vehicle. I have and will have tons of investment/savings vehicles. And better yet more of those other assets will be skewed toward progeny based on their longer time horizons. I’m not going to have to hoard more wealth in lower yielding bonds. (Traditional CPF savings are basically bond-like, and when you weaken the longevity insurance part that’s the trade.)
my grandma was unhealthy since 65. she dont excercise, was overweight and need insulin jab. by 70 she could hardly walk

but she survive till 90. in fact at 89 she was very much alive. covid came and took her.

what i can say health at 65 cannot really predict your lifespan
 

dork32

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We care, at least i do. but u look at all those breakeven calculation, ppl are trying to take out the uncertainty
no one is taking out uncertainty. there is uncertainty. that is why you need to do calculations to minimize the risk of uncertainty.

for myself , i am not desperate to bequest. but i will choose basic. this is because i rather bequest to my loved ones than to strangers.
 

dork32

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The #1 objective of CPF LIFE is to protect against longevity risks. The payout plans vary in how well they perform in terms of longevity protection. Here’s the order:

Worst quality longevity insurance: Basic Plan
Middle quality: Standard Plan
Highest quality: Escalating Plan
to rephrase that, if you lived till 100 basic is the worst followed by standard and escalating.

to add on standard deviation is a statistical number than is often used to measure risk. the larger the standard deviation the larger the risk. in terms of the xirr,
escalating has the highest deviation
standard's deviation is lower than escalating
basic has the lowest standard deviation.

this is the reason why i will choose basic. you cannot go too wrong.
 

Oldnerd79

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Will choose ERS basic, most likely won't make it till 90. If suay suay live longer than that ERS payouts also good enough
 

Mephist0pheLes

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no one is taking out uncertainty. there is uncertainty. that is why you need to do calculations to minimize the risk of uncertainty.

for myself , i am not desperate to bequest. but i will choose basic. this is because i rather bequest to my loved ones than to strangers.
i must have missed it then. can u quote me the post where uncertainty was incorporated into the calculation? im sure someone must have calculated at least the basic like the expected value for each plan given the distribution of life expectancy if they have incorporated uncertainty?
 

Oldnerd79

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Got enough spare cash, then go for ERS.
How much is enough u decide liao.
Cash alone not really but if add CPF SA (assuming still can shield) and SRS then should be more than enough. And still have 2 safety net:- surrender whole life policy and HDB buy back scheme or downgrade.
 

BBCWatcher

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Cash alone not really but if add CPF SA (assuming still can shield) and SRS then should be more than enough. And still have 2 safety net:- surrender whole life policy and HDB buy back scheme or downgrade.
Only if Singapore and the Singapore dollar don’t go pear shaped.
 

BBCWatcher

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Vote wisely. Put the right people into the government.
OK, but there's only one vote per adult citizen. And it's even a little "worse" than that since you don't actually vote nationally. Some votes are more powerful in deciding the composition of the government. You vote in individual constituencies, often a GRC. For example, you could vote for an opposition party in the Ang Mo Kio GRC if you wish. But unless something dramatically changes it's extremely unlikely that the Ang Mo Kio GRC will elect opposition party MPs. Even if you convince 5 of your friends to vote the same way. The East Coast GRC (for example) is much, much more likely to flip control before the Ang Mo Kio GRC (for example).

FWIW I've never voted for Donald Trump. But I've also never voted in a constituency (state) where my vote could've possibly tilted the election. A few states are competitive, but most aren't.

Which is not to say you shouldn't vote. You definitely should IMHO! But your individual vote, or even the votes you might influence, won't affect how best to arrange your financial affairs.
 

BrandonnC

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I plan to top up ers (once) when I reach 55 to max the compounding effect since it is a 'large' sum compounded over 10 years.
I would like to ask if it is worth it to top up the 'smaller' sum yearly (from 56 yo onwards) since the quantum is smaller and duration is also shorter (to 65 yo), as such it wouldn't have made such a great difference from the ROI point of view. Since I will likely not see the entire top up amount in my life time, I thought I would just top up once max at 55 yo.

If one were to top up ers at 55, what would be the best time to do so? Immediately when RA is formed or wait till early of the year?
 

jywy2005

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I plan to top up ers (once) when I reach 55 to max the compounding effect since it is a 'large' sum compounded over 10 years.
I would like to ask if it is worth it to top up the 'smaller' sum yearly (from 56 yo onwards) since the quantum is smaller and duration is also shorter (to 65 yo), as such it wouldn't have made such a great difference from the ROI point of view. Since I will likely not see the entire top up amount in my life time, I thought I would just top up once max at 55 yo.

If one were to top up ers at 55, what would be the best time to do so? Immediately when RA is formed or wait till early of the year?
For my own case, I will be 55 yo next year. I will shield my SA account and the funds for RA will come from OA. Most likely will get FRS and opt for basic or standard. You never know what will hit you before you reach 65 yo. Prefer to have more liquidity during this interim period. Meanwhile, can continue to top up yearly to prevailing FRS rates.
 
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