FRS vs ERS

[romeo88]

This whole LIFE business contains much deception. Sometimes I wonder it's never properly explained just so not to pecah lobang.

What is their motive?

 

[henrylbh]

Calculation error is not as serious as CPF Policy error s:13:

Do you know when CPFB talk about Risk Pooling in an article posted in their facebook page or anywhere else, they only tell the public that Interest on CPF Life Premium is Pooled. They never tell the Public that extra interest of up to $900 per year is also pooled if you choose Standard or Escalating Plan?

What is their motive?

Calculation error or wrong estimate is not serious. But the was consequential error was due to wrong application of principle/policy. That is serious. That why I queried their earlier reply.

 

[henrylbh]

This whole LIFE business contains much deception. Sometimes I wonder it's never properly explained just so not to pecah lobang.

To me there is no intended deception. The website quite adequately explains what the general public need to know. Just like the extra interest is clearly explained and yet people still think all interest goes into the pool. What to do?

 

[romeo88]

Hmmm... I intended and planned just so I can better focus on the nitty gritty (which are very important actually) and ignore all the distractions. Still I don't think I've said any where I've signed up for the Basic plan. It's definitely your own inference. I'm surprised you seem to know a lot on LIFE but never did any numbers.

Alrighty, enough fun already; cease fire.

Though there is no commitment to choose either of the 3 plan till PEA, it appears you intended to go for basic plan when the time comes? You even went to the extend to calculate the estimated loss of interest on the basis that the additional interests earned is kept in LIFE fund.

I only know I am forced to commence payout at age 70. But I may not want to wait that long. Still undecided depending on whether there are further changes till PEA.

 

[maple96]

Calculation error or wrong estimate is not serious. But the was consequential error was due to wrong application of principle/policy. That is serious. That why I queried their earlier reply.

If I rely on a misrepresentation by CPFB, I can take legal action?

Can u do likewise for your case?

 

[maple96]

To me there is no intended deception. The website quite adequately explains what the general public need to know. Just like the extra interest is clearly explained and yet people still think all interest goes into the pool. What to do?

So clear that many people including experts out there still dun know or ever share in public at all

And CPFB never breath a single word about it in all CPF@55 talks! They also never tell at the seminar about the Risk Pooling, that CPF Life Pool eats your interest on premium, since CPF Life Program started, until they get queried by Opp. What is the motive?

 

[Merg91]

OMG, CPF is.......
Do you want to write to Straits Times?

What is their motive?

 

[henrylbh]

If I rely on a misrepresentation by CPFB, I can take legal action?

Can u do likewise for your case?

No need to sue. From dealing with them, they will honour what they said

I have made a request which I am aware that it is not allowed in principle or on prevailing policy. But I took the error or delayed change of numbers in my CPF homepage (luckily I print shot that page before they change) and made a request and the Board replied …

We are prepared to accede to your request, subject to your co-owner’s written consent. Please let us have her letter accordingly.

 

[Merg91]

Those here like Henry who advocate minimum sum are those who believe they are the losing end as individuals.

A good govt has to be more than that for majority good.

That's the difference between HK & Singapore.
They rather have richest LiKaShing & few dirty rich property tycoons but not 80 % with their own homes.

Currently life expectancy for 65 year olds is 20 more years i.e. half of the people will live up to 85 and the other half beyond 85. Go back to the Minimum Sum Scheme, and half the people will outlive their money. Maybe you think you are luckier and smarter with your money and so that will not happen to you, but the system exists so everyone is in it together and everyone is protected.

 

[Merg91]

More of providers cannot go bankrupt. It has to be.
Some users benefit much more, provided by a few 'losing' unhappy ones like Henry who are being forced to pool his coins in.

Already told you everyone must lose. Provider must win. This is how insurance works.

 

[angtc11]

Those here like Henry who advocate minimum sum are those who believe they are the losing end as individuals.

A good govt has to be more than that for majority good.

That's the difference between HK & Singapore.
They rather have richest LiKaShing & few dirty rich property tycoons but not 80 % with their own homes.

Thanks.
This fake atomic ant gave me a shock.

If he is right, everyone should be in BRS unless forced to. It is basically refund the deposit without any interest. A gamble quite many would lose.

Can you further elaborate your assessment of cpf life? Your post in this thread is supportive of cpf life but in the other, you are worried about losing your interest, which is how cpf life gets funded.

 

[henrylbh]

More of providers cannot go bankrupt. It has to be.
Some users benefit much more, provided by a few 'losing' unhappy ones like Henry who are being forced to pool his coins in.

Ha Ha why me? How you think I end losing and not you paying for me. My father gone 2 weeks before 91yo. His elder brother gone at 90 plus. And he still got 3 surviving sisters at 96,97 and 98. And the one at 98 still paying games at desktop.

 

[henrylbh]

Can you further elaborate your assessment of cpf life? Your post in this thread is supportive of cpf life but in the other, you are worried about losing your interest, which is how cpf life gets funded.

CPFL is mainly for those who can't manage their CPF for basic retirement.

 

[angtc11]

CPFL is mainly for those who can't manage their CPF for basic retirement.

Yup, that and the socialization of longevity risk. If it was purely for those who can't manage their own funds, they could have just extended the drawdown period to be 25 or 30 years instead of consolidating into a fund.

What I didn't get was why merg91 seems to support cpf life as a scheme but so concerned about his interest being taken away. It's almost as if he wasn't aware cpf life is taking away his interest.

 

[dork32]

Those here like Henry who advocate minimum sum are those who believe they are the losing end as individuals.

wrong, under the minimun sum scheme, no one loses. every one just takes back what is rightfully theirs.

with cpf life, those that live longer wins. those that die early loses.

 

[Merg91]

The problem is many lower end citizens can't but say they can.

Many cry foul is because many have no cash in the wallets/POSB, blaming cpf 'changing goalpost' & yet their CPF have untouchable tens/hundreds of thousands.
They are more worried about next week than 20-40 years later.

Don't tell me these Sinkies are better in finance than these Malaysians :
https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nat...ees-spending-all-their-withdrawals-in-30-days

CPFL is mainly for those who can't manage their CPF for basic retirement.

 

[dork32]

Many cry foul is because many have no cash in the wallets/POSB, blaming cpf 'changing goalpost' & yet their CPF have untouchable tens/hundreds of thousands.
They are more worried about next week than 20-40 years later.

well said. to me cpf is for the middle tier that cannot manage.

cpf is a burden to the low income group

 

[BBCWatcher]

cpf is a burden to the low income group

Life is tough with low income (and low or lower wealth). CPF makes it less tough overall.

 

[Merg91]

Most of us are of middle class & CPF life is important.
Many of us probably still can manage financially but
CPF RA with ultrasafe 4-6%is still tempting.

The rich doesn't need that.

The govt is concerned with the low end. Many for sure also can live till 80s.

well said. to me cpf is for the middle tier that cannot manage.

cpf is a burden to the low income group

 

[Merg91]

Which country is not for them?
May be the exceptions are Scandinavians & Aussie.
The Malaysian minister even resort to use own figure to distort :
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/asia/malaysia-poverty-rate-united-nations-11836208

At least most poorest have some places to stay here.

Life is tough with low income (and low or lower wealth)