General S-REITs Discussion Thread

churnmaster

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I think this is the first time we see such huge divergence between residential property prices and REIT prices. Malls are now being converted to Condos. I think even in CBD, it is more worth it to build a condo than to build an office building.
REITs were overvalued in a low interest rate environment and now the valuations are getting corrected.

For residential properties, it’s the 40% foreigners who mostly live in rental property supporting this market.

Today, a $2 million condo unit is asking for 5.5-6.5K rental (yield around 3.6%) while a $600K HDB unit is asking for 3.5-4K rental (yield around 7.5%).

Then there are businesses which have converted 3BHK condo units to 6 rooms and renting out each room for $1-1.5K rental (yield above 7.5%).

If we get big job cuts in the financial sector (some restructuring already happening in some foreign banks) where most of the foreigners are employed, then we might see a drop in rentals and also some pullback in the residential property valuations.
 
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sohguanh

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REITs were overvalued in a low interest rate environment and now the valuations are getting corrected.

For residential properties, it’s the 40% foreigners who mostly live in rental property supporting this market.

Today, a $2 million condo unit is asking for 5.5-6.5K rental (yield around 3.6%) while a $600K HDB unit is asking for 3.5-4K rental (yield around 7.5%).

Then there are businesses which have converted 3BHK condo units to 6 rooms and renting out each room for $1-1.5K rental (yield above 7.5%).

If we get big job cuts in the financial sector (some restructuring already happening in some foreign banks) where most of the foreigners are employed, then we might see drop in rentals and also some pullback in residential property valuations.
Just a minor add on, the so called 40% foreigner you mention does not strictly has to be working professional. From other forum I do know quite a lot of foreigner students from other countries come here rent condo too becuz the Uni hostel sometimes run out of rooms. This group of students have rich parents else they would not even come to Spore to study. Just a case like China students, they can fly back China for every school holiday or long weekend and they only order Grabfood and move around on GrabTaxi etc such kind of lifestyle. In a way this group of foreigner students help boost Spore economy. This group may not be working but they got monies from parents to spend in Spore. And from that forum the numbers are not small and I guess they pay foreigner Uni fees wow!
 

revhappy

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REITs were overvalued in a low interest rate environment and now the valuations are getting corrected.

For residential properties, it’s the 40% foreigners who mostly live in rental property supporting this market.

Today, a $2 million condo unit is asking for 5.5-6.5K rental (yield around 3.6%) while a $600K HDB unit is asking for 3.5-4K rental (yield around 7.5%).

Then there are businesses which have converted 3BHK condo units to 6 rooms and renting out each room for $1-1.5K rental (yield above 7.5%).

If we get big job cuts in the financial sector (some restructuring already happening in some foreign banks) where most of the foreigners are employed, then we might see drop in rentals and also some pullback in residential property valuations.

WIth the war raging in Europe, Middle east, and the problems with China, Taiwan and Hong Kong, Singapore will always be able to attract rich people. We dont even need the financial sector or the foreigners to work here. Singapore has one of the toughest immigration by investment rules. Think about Dubai with their golden visa. If Singapore wants, they can create an epic property bubble by just rolling back some of the cooling measures. Leave alone attracting wealthy foreigners with golden visa.
 

churnmaster

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Just a minor add on, the so called 40% foreigner you mention does not strictly has to be working professional. From other forum I do know quite a lot of foreigner students from other countries come here rent condo too becuz the Uni hostel sometimes run out of rooms. This group of students have rich parents else they would not even come to Spore to study. Just a case like China students, they can fly back China for every school holiday or long weekend and they only order Grabfood and move around on GrabTaxi etc such kind of lifestyle. In a way this group of foreigner students help boost Spore economy. This group may not be working but they got monies from parents to spend in Spore. And from that forum the numbers are not small and I guess they pay foreigner Uni fees wow!
Yes, I agree.

Forgot to mention, supply of new built units also coming in so that would also have a cooling effect on the rentals.
 

churnmaster

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WIth the war raging in Europe, Middle east, and the problems with China, Taiwan and Hong Kong, Singapore will always be able to attract rich people. We dont even need the financial sector or the foreigners to work here. Singapore has one of the toughest immigration by investment rules. Think about Dubai with their golden visa. If Singapore wants, they can create an epic property bubble by just rolling back some of the cooling measures. Leave alone attracting wealthy foreigners with golden visa.
Yes, I agree. Singapore will always be able to attract the rich people and the talent from around the world.

I like your comment “We don’t even need the financial sector or the foreigners to work here.”
 

boliao123

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Yes, I agree. Singapore will always be able to attract the rich people and the talent from around the world.

I like your comment “We don’t even need the financial sector or the foreigners to work here.”

The ability to attract talented people here in turn depends on the career opportunities offered by industries here, which has to be way better than what foreigners would find in their homeland - and for that to happen companies must find the singapore proposition logically and irresistibly the best place to base their regional hq/footprint in the region. So it shouldnt be taken for granted "we will always attract the best and richest".

Look at the calibre of highly skilled workers in these jobs where they are essentially in competition with others at the top of their game in cities/hubs (which characteristically, has lots of immigrants and descendants of immigrants) - hard to believe that a local populace of 4mm would be able to produce enough of such workers (who may also choose to work overseas) who's also willing to take up these top jobs. And its these that will in turn support many other jobs in sg (e.g. a trading desk of 5 supported by non revenue staff of 100~).

That said, there will be some bad eggs who are nothing more than paper weights. I myself have worked with some, and in jobs where performance *truly* matters, these people get sieved out naturally.

Dont forget most of us are we are descendants of immigrants too.
 

churnmaster

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The ability to attract talented people here in turn depends on the career opportunities offered by industries here, which has to be way better than what foreigners would find in their homeland - and for that to happen companies must find the singapore proposition logically and irresistibly the best place to base their regional hq/footprint in the region. So it shouldnt be taken for granted "we will always attract the best and richest".

Look at the calibre of highly skilled workers in these jobs where they are essentially in competition with others at the top of their game in cities/hubs (which characteristically, has lots of immigrants and descendants of immigrants) - hard to believe that a local populace of 4mm would be able to produce enough of such workers (who may also choose to work overseas) who's also willing to take up these top jobs. And its these that will in turn support many other jobs in sg (e.g. a trading desk of 5 supported by non revenue staff of 100~).

That said, there will be some bad eggs who are nothing more than paper weights. I myself have worked with some, and in jobs where performance *truly* matters, these people get sieved out naturally.

Dont forget most of us are we are descendants of immigrants too.
Well said.

The administration here understands the challenges of attracting foreign talent and at the same time retaining and developing local talent. They are very proactive in their approach and they take lot of efforts in this regard, unlike many other administrations around the world.

There is always a sense of preparedness for any of these challenges and this I guess improves the probability of success in all of their endeavors.

The wealthy too get attracted by this and create more opportunities by setting up businesses in and around Singapore.
 
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d5dude

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I think this is the first time we see such huge divergence between residential property prices and REIT prices. Malls are now being converted to Condos. I think even in CBD, it is more worth it to build a condo than to build an office building.

Malls yes, retail rents have more or less stagnated due to disruption from e-commerce, but I think grade A CBD office space is still more valuable than condos, they can go up to $14 psf (rents), thats $14000 per month for a 1k sqft space and its bare.
 

d5dude

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WIth the war raging in Europe, Middle east, and the problems with China, Taiwan and Hong Kong, Singapore will always be able to attract rich people. We dont even need the financial sector or the foreigners to work here. Singapore has one of the toughest immigration by investment rules. Think about Dubai with their golden visa. If Singapore wants, they can create an epic property bubble by just rolling back some of the cooling measures. Leave alone attracting wealthy foreigners with golden visa.

Definitely, lots of UHNWI continue to flock here. According to Boston Consulting 1.5T flowed into Singapore in 2022.

 

Dividends Warrior

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PLife is still the king.

F90FzMUa8AAeOUF
 

Not.banned.yet

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Actually. Under what circumstances will reit price go up? Land, development, construction all so expensive

only when the influx of foreign wealth higher to outbid the properties then it will go up ?
 

stanlawj

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US Treasury dept attempts to stem the sudden rise in UST10yr to 30yr yields by issuing more shorter-term bills and notes. Looks like the US Treasury dept has noticed the events recently (UST bond market crash) and taken it seriously.

Some kind of relief rally in SREITS may happen over next few weeks (till Jan 2024?) should the UST10yr yields becomes rangebound between 4.7% to 5%. Most of the panicked sellers would have already sold during the past few days sudden crash in SREITS.

Quarterly Refunding Statement of Assistant Secretary for Financial Markets Josh Frost
https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy1864
qr-q4-2023-policy-statement.PNG
 

stanlawj

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Post-FOMC, UST10-yr yield drops to 4.73%.
Christmas rally coming for SREITS too? Short-term trading opportunity possibly.
 
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stanlawj

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Bloomberg: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/news...website&utm_medium=share&utm_campaign=twitter

Surveillance: Bonds Feel the Love From Yellen's Shift in Sale​

Treasury may not be gaming the market, but at some level, it’s paying attention

It’s Fed day on Wall Street and no one seemed to care, which is odd because FOMC meetings are usually the Super Bowls of economic events.

One thing and one thing only was sucking all the oxygen out of the room: the Treasury Department refunding announcement. And when it showed that the US government planned to concentrate new debt sales in shorter-term notes rather than longer-term ones, it turbocharged a rally in 10- and 30-year bonds. Add in some weaker-than-expected manufacturing data, and yields dropped even further.

There are a couple of takeaways here: First, Treasury supplies matter more than they have in decades given the growing US deficit and shifting institutional buyer base, notwithstanding Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen’s focus on economic growth as a market driver. Second, US Treasury officials are aware of the dynamic in markets and seem to be going out of their way to avoid causing any more disruption than necessary.

Or as Morgan Stanley’s Seth Carpenter suggested, Treasury officials may not be gaming the market, but they are listening to it.

“They’re looking at what is the market about, where the market wants to pay up, and where the market’s demanding a discount,” Carpenter said. “And at the margin they will lean a little bit more to where the market wants the paper, and lean a little bit away from the place where the market is pulling back.”

The quarterly refunding announcement came in smaller than expected at $112 billion of long-term securities, and yields on 10-years hit a session low afterward. Even the 30-year, which has been mostly north of 5% since mid-October, sported a 4-handle at one point.

Mike Schumacher at Wells Fargo foreshadowed the move, saying before the announcement that just a $1 billion difference in the allocation of maturities could make a big difference. The importance, he said, was less about the actual longer-term debt issuance and more the signal being sent by US government officials.

Still, there's a difference between a rip-roaring rally and some stability in longer-term yields that have been bouncing all over the place. Today's price action looked more like traders finding a peak in yields rather than a trigger for a more sustained move lower in long-term borrowing costs, said Bank of America's Mark Cabana. After all, he said, the Fed isn’t budging off its higher-for-longer stance any time soon.

“If you’re a long term investor, stay neutral,” Cabana said. “And stay there until you see clear signals of economy cooling.”
 

stanlawj

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Actually. Under what circumstances will reit price go up? Land, development, construction all so expensive

only when the influx of foreign wealth higher to outbid the properties then it will go up ?
Conditions like in 2003 to 2007, 2009 to 2013, 2016 to 2019.
 

sohguanh

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Has SGX REIT finally hit the bottom? Today almost all REIT counters are going up. As per always the blue chip REIT leads the way. A pity actually as some are touching to near 52 week low but now bounce back up. I shall wait another day then.
 

zeroX26

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Has SGX REIT finally hit the bottom? Today almost all REIT counters are going up. As per always the blue chip REIT leads the way. A pity actually as some are touching to near 52 week low but now bounce back up. I shall wait another day then.
Last night's Powell's replies during the interview probably weren't very hawkish.
 

sohguanh

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Last night's Powell's replies during the interview probably weren't very hawkish.
But it is ok besides individual REIT I also buy the CLR CFA SRT GRN all going up up and away. I start accumulating since Aug 2023 and posted a few times in this forum. 3 months of collecting will I be seeing the rewards soon? Hmmm....
 

zeroX26

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But it is ok besides individual REIT I also buy the CLR CFA SRT GRN all going up up and away. I start accumulating since Aug 2023 and posted a few times in this forum. 3 months of collecting will I be seeing the rewards soon? Hmmm....
But each time u buy $100-$200... the rewards also won't be that big leh uncle.
 
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