Getting hdb and condo concurrently

[ck_ian69]

Hi I'm 35 this year and my fiancée is in late 20s. Has anyone here ever considered the route of buying a resale hdb (under own name since 35 and above) without listing fiancée / future spouse as co-applicant or occupier. As such, resale hdb and loan under single name only, cpf deduction under single name also.

Fiancée / future spouse buys a condo (purely for rental yield) and future capital appreciation. His/her cpf is used for monthly mortgage deduction while rental is used to top up if insufficient.

Can confirm if this is legally possible (I'm 99 percent sure it is). Only thing to worry is whether we are over stretching and whether the likelihood of capital appreciation of the private condo is there, as well as availability of rental yield especially in a weak market

Has anyone here attempted this approach? Thank you

 

[nemo88]

You think you are so original and clever to think of this?

 

[vinz]

Hi I'm 35 this year and my fiancée is in late 20s. Has anyone here ever considered the route of buying a resale hdb (under own name since 35 and above) without listing fiancée / future spouse as co-applicant or occupier. As such, resale hdb and loan under single name only, cpf deduction under single name also.

Under single scheme, its is perfectly legal.

Fiancée / future spouse buys a condo (purely for rental yield) and future capital appreciation. His/her cpf is used for monthly mortgage deduction while rental is used to top up if insufficient.

Never heard of capital depreciation? Selling below your purchase price. add in those legal fees etc it be much more. Market is never one direction only even though it been so for the past 7 to 10yrs.

Can confirm if this is legally possible (I'm 99 percent sure it is). Only thing to worry is whether we are over stretching and whether the likelihood of capital appreciation of the private condo is there, as well as availability of rental yield especially in a weak market

U already thought out all the pro and cons. too optimistic mindset is my view on this. of course i am not sure of your salary and also your Bank savings, or parents financial support etc. Only you can answer yourself is it stretching yourself too hard.

I am sure there are other ways to investment other then the 2nd property route.

 

[ck_ian69]

Memo 88 this is not original. There are smarter people out there who can think of better ideas. I'm just asking for opinions

 

[kyteo79]

Under single scheme, its is perfectly legal.

Never heard of capital depreciation? Selling below your purchase price. add in those legal fees etc it be much more. Market is never one direction only even though it been so for the past 7 to 10yrs.

U already thought out all the pro and cons. too optimistic mindset is my view on this. of course i am not sure of your salary and also your Bank savings, or parents financial support etc. Only you can answer yourself is it stretching yourself too hard.

I am sure there are other ways to investment other then the 2nd property route.

We have many indifference in several threads but however this i have to agree with you . Many think it is always 1 way because many are brainwashed with workshops and seminars or act smart agents.

there are definitely market segments where it is going to be big losses and some a gain.

I believe 1 foor in hdb and 1 foot in private housing is a good way to diversify however you need a good solid capital. Ie to say if you think a resale of 4 or 5 room in ulu place cost u 400k and a shoe box in outside cbd but centralise would cost you in excess of 600k can you and your partner afford ?

that said there is many proven cases where my friends owns a 3 room holland with a good rental yield of 8% and bought somewhere also pasir panjang. in the end instead of staying in Holland hdb they shift into the new condo. becasue holland can generate good yields but not the condo.

So it is not a fix rule but you need to acertain and see your risk. if everything now can make money, i believe all will jump in.

i would give the hdb a pass and try 2 private instead judging the supplies .

 

[Earnasyougrow]

i would give the hdb a pass and try 2 private instead judging the supplies .[/QUOTE]

Y would u suggest 2 privates when yr fren example already show hdb ROI is better?

 

[infernolord]

I thought of it as well. I am 35. was thinking of getting a resale then my gf can get a condo avoiding ABSD and tax.
But we end up getting a bigger EC. i.e 4brm
There are many reasons after some thoughts.
1. Cash downpayment
2. Are you ok if you pay for your gf condo, she cant possible pay it herself.
3. If you get resales, your gf stays with u, is she contributing to the household stuffs or just yourself.
4. Is your gf comfortable that the hdb is just your name. Even though u want to buy a condo with her and offer to pay for her?
5. Family planning. How big is your hdb and can you pay on both side if u have plan for kids.

 

[ck_ian69]

Thanks for the insights and replies. It's indeed a difficult position. Kids to us are of low priority at this stage and if yes, it will only be a single child.

OCR condos are aplenty as I saw on guru. I think unless I depress the rent, it will be challenging to rent out. Am still thinking hard and weighing all the pros and cons.

 

[doody_]

No point HDB resale and private as you lost the capital appreciation for the HDB resale. Better to stick with 1 property or go with 2 privates.

 

[infernolord]

Thanks for the insights and replies. It's indeed a difficult position. Kids to us are of low priority at this stage and if yes, it will only be a single child.

OCR condos are aplenty as I saw on guru. I think unless I depress the rent, it will be challenging to rent out. Am still thinking hard and weighing all the pros and cons.

Honestly i love this idea as well.
It is definitely doable. I checked before. The main problem lies with trusts and our gf/finanee. if she is ok without a name in your flat. And willing to take the risks using her name on the condo.. why not

Unfortunately for me, my gf do not earn that much. Admin jobs. After some thoughts, i cant take the risk and my gf is not comfortable without her name in the HDB.

Bro, if you earning ok. Go ahead. In fact along the path to EC, i also encounter a couple earning 11k, getting 2 Private condo. One to rent out. It is also do able.

 

[InvincibleTofu]

Property now is not like property in the early 2000s.

Do your due research. I hope you don't get burnt.

REITs might be a better bet

 

[theblueark]

I'm in similar situation and have thought about and researched this for over a year. Share with you some thoughts.

buying a resale hdb (under own name since 35 and above) without listing fiancée / future spouse as co-applicant or occupier. As such, resale hdb and loan under single name only, cpf deduction under single name also.

You can buy without listing as co-applicant or occupier since not married yet.

Fiancée / future spouse buys a condo (purely for rental yield) and future capital appreciation. His/her cpf is used for monthly mortgage deduction while rental is used to top up if insufficient.

Can confirm if this is legally possible (I'm 99 percent sure it is).

The unclear part is what happens once married. HDB website lists eligibility to add occupiers, but not written anywhere that you must add. However a lot of things I've ppl online say you must add.

Adding to this, someone I know (single) went to ask HDB what happens to her condo if she marries someone with a HDB. She was told by HDB that she will need to sell her condo if the person with the HDB has not met MOP. She asked multiple times with same answer.

We found this puzzling but think it is due to some reverse logic that HDB applied. Basically the rule seems to be this (From HDB website http://www.hdb.gov.sg/cs/infoweb/re...s-occupiers/change-of-occupiers/eligibility):

If you have not completed the required MOP for your flat
- Proposed occupiers must not have an interest in any private property

Meaning you are not eligible to add this occupier if she owns private property, and HDB seems to assume that you must add the person as an occupier once married.

There seems to be some success in appealing to HDB to waive any issues with this conundrum.

 

[ck_ian69]

Don't understand why I need to add my future wife as an occupier once we are married and she stays with me.

Agree both parties need to have lots of trust. Wife has no name in hdb and yet must pay for condo, albeit with my help.

 

[meshpenstand]

Don't understand why I need to add my future wife as an occupier once we are married and she stays with me.

Agree both parties need to have lots of trust. Wife has no name in hdb and yet must pay for condo, albeit with my help.

You must also have trust in her.

Whatever you help in paying will all go to her.

In the probable unlikely event you both breaks ups, she can decide not to return the condo and continues to service her loan herself (or with her new beau)

And in the event that you both got married, and then breaks up in the end. I believe since she is the single person servicing the loan, with the name under hers. She gets to keep that property. (I may be wrong, but to prove you contributed may show intention of bypassing the HDB's system. And, could that lead to the callback of your resale unit? I do not know)

No offence bro, just want to lay out your worst case scenarios.

Her worst case? You don't help her, she gets into a lot of debts, declare bankrupt. You both breaks up.

 

[kyteo79]

i would give the hdb a pass and try 2 private instead judging the supplies .

Y would u suggest 2 privates when yr fren example already show hdb ROI is better?[/QUOTE]

HDB roi was because the HDB is in holland road.
second the HDB he bought was from his GF and the price he bought was like 15 years ago prices. GF then left to buy the condo.

Why i suggest private is because i reckon the supplies of rental for HDB will be cheap. second oversupply.

 

[delceer]

What if there is argument in the future or she fall in love with another guy or you have a new girlfriend ? You still can take back the money you had dumped inside the condo but without your name ?

 

[Mr.Canberra]

What if there is argument in the future or she fall in love with another guy or you have a new girlfriend? You still can take back the money you had dumped inside the condo but without your name?

Depends on the integrity of the ex-spouse.

 

[Mr.Canberra]

No guarantee that you will be happily married forever. Whatever title deed/lease agreement that is not in your name is not yours even if you are the one who is servicing the mortgage via your spouse's name/bank account.

End of the day is whether your capital gao gao or income stream stable not? If not the stress of servicing 2 mortgage loans will accelerate your aging process in tandem hahaha.

 

[theblueark]

Another consideration is the women's charter and how our law today still leans towards the females during divorce.

The HDB may be under your name and you may have paid the whole down payment and solely serviced the loan thus far. But her lawyers can argue the flat is a matrimonial asset.

The Women’s Charter defines matrimonial assets to be an asset of any nature acquired during the marriage by one or both parties. If the asset was acquired before the marriage by only one party, or by both parties, the asset will only be a matrimonial asset if:

1. First, the asset is ordinarily used or enjoyed by both parties or one or more of their children while the parties are living together for shelter or transportation or for household, education, recreational, social or aesthetic purposes;
2. Second, the asset has been substantially improved during the marriage by the other party or by both parties to the marriage.

source: https://singaporelegaladvice.com/hdb-flat-divorce

So you paid everything, but she can argue she has stayed there and brought up the children there, and the price went up while she was there. Thus it is a matrimonial asset and she is entitled to division of the asset.

On top her condo under her name which you "helped" to pay for.

Better keep bank records of you helping to pay for the condo!

 

[theblueark]

Don't understand why I need to add my future wife as an occupier once we are married and she stays with me.

Yeah HDB sometimes confusing. Old thread for you to see someone kena letter from HDB asking her husband to put her name as occupier after she married him:

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/h...-permitted-occupiers-i-need-help-4883110.html

Another old thread where HDB insisted must add as occupier:
http://forums.condosingapore.com/sh...sole-hdb-owner-spouse-also-cannot-buy-condo-r