Getting started with insurance

[soneat]

Hi xtwis7, Thank you so very much for the explanation, much appreciated!

The reason I am asking is because sometime in 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2017, I had on-and-off treatment for mental health issues but I am fully stable now and even got a discharge letter from the public health institution. I am thinking of plugging the gap in terms of insurance like disability income but am also aware that my past medical treatment is an issue.

As for upgrades, i am worried that because I really had no idea that I actually needed to declare to the insurers until six months ago, because the hospital I went to just kept insisting that they keep all records sealed and deny access to insurers, until I found out that wasn't the case when I digged further.

I did ask this question earlier on this page: https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/getting-started-with-insurance.875687/post-135002856 and https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/getting-started-with-insurance.875687/post-135006354, very kindly answered by winthony and soneat (thank you very much once again, guys!).

Since I inadvertently did not declare, I am worried that whatever upgrades I did in between 2009 (when I first "bought" the policies) and today will be invalid, if I even did do an upgrade. I actually don't remember because not once did my agent (the old family friend) ever sat down with me to explain what I was buying.

Seems like quite a number of people are having the same concerns. To be honest, for cases such as yours (and other folks who have pm me), it would help tremendously if you have a competent agent, who is willing and able to assist you to get it sorted out.

Here's my 2 cents.
1. Always check through the original application form to see if you have "under-declare". The questions in the application form gets revised from time to time and so sometimes because of the way the questions are phrased, you might have missed out on the declaration.
2. For your case, having the discharged letter helps but it is only 4 years since 2017. Generally insurers look at past 5 years or longer. Again, if you are fully discharged and have no symptom, no relapse, no treatment, no medication, no follow-up for >10 years, insurer might give you a favorable underwriting for any upgrade or new application.
3. Having said that, mental health issue can be really tricky because it can be something that's really trivial/one-off (e.g mild depression, maybe due to some incident, and time has cured the pain) or something chronic. Personally, I do believe there can be full recovery but I can't read the underwriter's mind - so it would be good if you have a GE agent that can share some insights on their underwriter's rule of thumb.

 

[xtwis7]

Hi xtwis7, Thank you so very much for the explanation, much appreciated!

The reason I am asking is because sometime in 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2017, I had on-and-off treatment for mental health issues but I am fully stable now and even got a discharge letter from the public health institution. I am thinking of plugging the gap in terms of insurance like disability income but am also aware that my past medical treatment is an issue.

As for upgrades, i am worried that because I really had no idea that I actually needed to declare to the insurers until six months ago, because the hospital I went to just kept insisting that they keep all records sealed and deny access to insurers, until I found out that wasn't the case when I digged further.

I did ask this question earlier on this page: https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/getting-started-with-insurance.875687/post-135002856 and https://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/threads/getting-started-with-insurance.875687/post-135006354, very kindly answered by winthony and soneat (thank you very much once again, guys!).

Since I inadvertently did not declare, I am worried that whatever upgrades I did in between 2009 (when I first "bought" the policies) and today will be invalid, if I even did do an upgrade. I actually don't remember because not once did my agent (the old family friend) ever sat down with me to explain what I was buying.

I can't guarantee that your insurance application will go through smoothly even with a discharge letter as mental health issues is highly tricky since disability income also covers that. There can be a possibility where you're excluded for the same mental health condition which I can only know upon underwriting after a submission is made. It further complicates matters where there were multiple treatments between 2013 and 2017.

Customer service can assist with some of your queries though it may take some time given that they're currently swarmed with the reduced manpower. I believe your health insurance policies are fine since the inception date was much earlier than the onset of your mental health issues.

Since your agent is not even assisting you in any way for your current policies and subsequently new policies should you explore them, my first piece of advice is to look for someone competent and approachable. Of course this new servicing agent has nothing to gain because the commissions would have been earned fully by your family friend agent which is why not many agents will want to take over transfer cases unless there's something in it for them.

I personally believe in giving the right advice since that's what financial advisors are meant to in the first place. Clients' interest should always come first before any monetary incentive.

 

[firsttimebuyer]

There are actually a wealth of information and many things have been discussed before.
1. Aviva Mindef Group Insurance premium is very competitive but like any other Group Insurance
- You are not the policy owner. This means you cannot do nomination.
- It is yearly renewable. This means the premium and T&C can change at each renewal.
- There are claims limit - e.g. if there are multiple death claims in a single event, then a limit will apply.
2. By right most agent should know what guaranteed issuance mean. Generally, for insurance policies where the insurance element is negligible (e.g. the basic sum assured amount is 101% or 105% of premium), then these type of policies are typically guaranteed issuance.

Thank you very much for the reply and help.

I am very sorry to bother you but what does it mean I cannot do nomination? Does it it mean that I cannot nominate beneficiaries?

 

[firsttimebuyer]

Seems like quite a number of people are having the same concerns. To be honest, for cases such as yours (and other folks who have pm me), it would help tremendously if you have a competent agent, who is willing and able to assist you to get it sorted out.

Here's my 2 cents.
1. Always check through the original application form to see if you have "under-declare". The questions in the application form gets revised from time to time and so sometimes because of the way the questions are phrased, you might have missed out on the declaration.
2. For your case, having the discharged letter helps but it is only 4 years since 2017. Generally insurers look at past 5 years or longer. Again, if you are fully discharged and have no symptom, no relapse, no treatment, no medication, no follow-up for >10 years, insurer might give you a favorable underwriting for any upgrade or new application.
3. Having said that, mental health issue can be really tricky because it can be something that's really trivial/one-off (e.g mild depression, maybe due to some incident, and time has cured the pain) or something chronic. Personally, I do believe there can be full recovery but I can't read the underwriter's mind - so it would be good if you have a GE agent that can share some insights on their underwriter's rule of thumb.

Hi Soneat,

Thanks very much, i am now trying to see if I kept copies of the original application forms. I do have a docment that seem to be related to the risk assessment or my risk profile but am not sure if that is the application form though.

 

[soneat]

Thank you very much for the reply and help.

I am very sorry to bother you but what does it mean I cannot do nomination? Does it it mean that I cannot nominate beneficiaries?

That's right. Only policyholders can do nominations.
For Aviva/Mindef group insurance, there is no way you can do nomination because you are not the policyholder.

 

[soneat]

Hi Soneat,

Thanks very much, i am now trying to see if I kept copies of the original application forms. I do have a docment that seem to be related to the risk assessment or my risk profile but am not sure if that is the application form though.

Usually, when you get a policy document, regardless of hard or soft copy, it should include:
i) policy schedule
ii) policy conditions (aka T&Cs)
iii) endorsements (if any)
iv) application form
For additional questionnaires or forms that you filled in after the application (if any), they will typically not be attached. <-- This is a problem if you did not have a copy when you submit them.

 

[firsttimebuyer]

I can't guarantee that your insurance application will go through smoothly even with a discharge letter as mental health issues is highly tricky since disability income also covers that. There can be a possibility where you're excluded for the same mental health condition which I can only know upon underwriting after a submission is made. It further complicates matters where there were multiple treatments between 2013 and 2017.

Customer service can assist with some of your queries though it may take some time given that they're currently swarmed with the reduced manpower. I believe your health insurance policies are fine since the inception date was much earlier than the onset of your mental health issues.

Since your agent is not even assisting you in any way for your current policies and subsequently new policies should you explore them, my first piece of advice is to look for someone competent and approachable. Of course this new servicing agent has nothing to gain because the commissions would have been earned fully by your family friend agent which is why not many agents will want to take over transfer cases unless there's something in it for them.

I personally believe in giving the right advice since that's what financial advisors are meant to in the first place. Clients' interest should always come first before any monetary incentive.

Thank you very much for that.

This may sound silly, but for a while, I was thinking of waiting for my current agent (the family friend) to "bye-bye" permanently . As far as I know, she is still getting commissions from the annual premiums on my current health policy and if the info i am hearing is correct, she is not in any clear state of mind to be even seeing or recruiting new clients. I am a bit reluctant because I am afraid that my family will accuse me of denying income even to a dying person. On the other hand, I am getting all the info second-hand, and my family have a history of being unreliable narrators, so i am not sure how true or real any of this is.

The issue with my family is that they don't have a habit of doing research, but just rely on whatever friends and relatives tell them; they are talking about switching agents to another friend of my sibling when the family friend passes on. I mentioned this guy before, he was the guy whom didn't know what I meant by asking "guaranteed issuance" when he tried to see the GREAT Wealth Multiplier II to me.

 

[firsttimebuyer]

That's right. Only policyholders can do nominations.
For Aviva/Mindef group insurance, there is no way you can do nomination because you are not the policyholder.

Very sorry to bother you again, and thank you very much for the advice.

Just to check, since I cannot nominate a beneficiary, under 'Death', whom does the payout go to? My next of kin (NOK)? If so, how do I tell AVIVA who is is my NOK?

Thanks very much again

 

[soneat]

Very sorry to bother you again, and thank you very much for the advice.

Just to check, since I cannot nominate a beneficiary, under 'Death', whom does the payout go to?

I think this has been discussed before in the Aviva Mindef thread. Aviva will pay to Mindef, then Mindef will pay to the estate of the deceased (when a claim is made).

By right, the deceased should have a will where his executor will execute the will according to what is in that will.

The following are formal wordings from Aviva:
In the event of a Death Benefit, Aviva will pay the first S$150,000 to the proper claimant. The balance of the Death Benefit will be paid according to the prevailing insurance laws and other relevant laws pertaining to estates of deceased. The Nomination of Beneficiary framework under the Insurance Act is not applicable for Group policy arrangement.

 

[soneat]

Thank you very much for that.

This may sound silly, but for a while, I was thinking of waiting for my current agent (the family friend) to "bye-bye" permanently . As far as I know, she is still getting commissions from the annual premiums on my current health policy and if the info i am hearing is correct, she is not in any clear state of mind to be even seeing or recruiting new clients. I am a bit reluctant because I am afraid that my family will accuse me of denying income even to a dying person. On the other hand, I am getting all the info second-hand, and my family have a history of being unreliable narrators, so i am not sure how true or real any of this is.

The issue with my family is that they don't have a habit of doing research, but just rely on whatever friends and relatives tell them; they are talking about switching agents to another friend of my sibling when the family friend passes on. I mentioned this guy before, he was the guy whom didn't know what I meant by asking "guaranteed issuance" when he tried to see the GREAT Wealth Multiplier II to me.

Sometimes when u want to be nice to others, u r not being fair to your ownself. You need to decide.

 

[bbwinnie1]

Yes, the ECI is considered accelerated benefit so it'll be $200k payout and then if subsequently Death/TPD happens, remaining $300k is paid out.

You are welcome.
Its advance of the benefit, the only insurer that eci does not advance the death benefit is Aviva.

Thank you both! Was discussing with my partner on the above. Could I also check if all the aforementioned term polices cover overseas accidents? Or is it limited to Singapore? Actually we have made plans to work overseas and even migrate if possible but of course looking at the situation now it won't seem likely in years to come, however, if we do migrate, would the coverage under the term polices still apply?

Also, one more question in particular to @boredboiboi, can I check what would happen to an endowment plan with Aviva in the event that we choose to migrate? My partner actually has an endowment/retirement plan with Aviva called My Life Income Plan!

Thank you in advance!! Really very appreciative of the help provided by the community

 

[boredboiboi]

Thank you both! Was discussing with my partner on the above. Could I also check if all the aforementioned term polices cover overseas accidents? Or is it limited to Singapore? Actually we have made plans to work overseas and even migrate if possible but of course looking at the situation now it won't seem likely in years to come, however, if we do migrate, would the coverage under the term polices still apply?

Also, one more question in particular to @boredboiboi, can I check what would happen to an endowment plan with Aviva in the event that we choose to migrate? My partner actually has an endowment/retirement plan with Aviva called My Life Income Plan!

Thank you in advance!! Really very appreciative of the help provided by the community

You are welcome.

The plan stay doesnt matter where u goes to. It covers worldwide. For that mylife income. The income will be paid out to your bank. Just dont close your bank account will do and the income will be paid to your bank. Hope this answers covers your questions.

 

[xtwis7]

Thank you both! Was discussing with my partner on the above. Could I also check if all the aforementioned term polices cover overseas accidents? Or is it limited to Singapore? Actually we have made plans to work overseas and even migrate if possible but of course looking at the situation now it won't seem likely in years to come, however, if we do migrate, would the coverage under the term polices still apply?

Also, one more question in particular to @boredboiboi, can I check what would happen to an endowment plan with Aviva in the event that we choose to migrate? My partner actually has an endowment/retirement plan with Aviva called My Life Income Plan!

Thank you in advance!! Really very appreciative of the help provided by the community

Insurance policies bought in Singapore cover you worldwide as long as the policy is still inforced. Even should you relocate, as long as you continue to service the premiums, you will enjoy the coverage. The only thing is that you may need to come back to Singapore for a local doctor to certify the CI if the overseas one is not acceptable. Such scenarios are of course handled on a case by case basis.

That’s where the stability of the country plays a part since SGD is expected to remain relatively strong so one wouldn’t mind holding a policy denominated in SGD.

 

[heartywarrior]

my parents bought an ntuc isp when i was young but over the yrs, i was 'smoked' by my friend to get an pru isp plan from her. out of ignorance, i switched over and been on it for 12+ yrs since however i failed to declare on the app form of a dengue fever incident at pri school which i was hospitalised for a week then.

if i iinform the isp now, would they have to under-write and usually how much extra would premiums be compared to normal, clean state cases?

 

[soneat]

my parents bought an ntuc isp when i was young but over the yrs, i was 'smoked' by my friend to get an pru isp plan from her. out of ignorance, i switched over and been on it for 12+ yrs since however i failed to declare on the app form of a dengue fever incident at pri school which i was hospitalised for a week then.

if i iinform the isp now, would they have to under-write and usually how much extra would premiums be compared to normal, clean state cases?

Dengue fever should be one-off and non-chronic. As long as u have fully recovered and have no followup, treatment etc since then, u can declare it and it is unlikely the insurer will penalise u.

Disclaimer : Insurers make the final decision.

 

[yokeyoke]

Hi,

I am currently 26 yo, planning to purchase a whole life plan with coverage for early critical illness. My main concern is for ECI.

Currently considering between Aviva's MyWholeLife plan and Great Eastern's Great Complete Flexi Living. I have attended sessions with agents and unfortunately, I still can't really make up my mind. Aviva is cheaper but I lean towards GE personally because my parents bought a lot of my insurances from GE and I am more "used" to them.

Would be grateful for any advice on which whole life plan + ECI is the most affordable one in the market, thanks!

 

[winthony]

Hi,

I am currently 26 yo, planning to purchase a whole life plan with coverage for early critical illness. My main concern is for ECI.

Currently considering between Aviva's MyWholeLife plan and Great Eastern's Great Complete Flexi Living. I have attended sessions with agents and unfortunately, I still can't really make up my mind. Aviva is cheaper but I lean towards GE personally because my parents bought a lot of my insurances from GE and I am more "used" to them.

Would be grateful for any advice on which whole life plan + ECI is the most affordable one in the market, thanks!

What's your primary consideration since you can't make up your mind?

Comparing premium, Aviva should be more competitive but ultimately,should work with someone you are comfortable with imo!

 

[xtwis7]

Hi,

I am currently 26 yo, planning to purchase a whole life plan with coverage for early critical illness. My main concern is for ECI.

Currently considering between Aviva's MyWholeLife plan and Great Eastern's Great Complete Flexi Living. I have attended sessions with agents and unfortunately, I still can't really make up my mind. Aviva is cheaper but I lean towards GE personally because my parents bought a lot of my insurances from GE and I am more "used" to them.

Would be grateful for any advice on which whole life plan + ECI is the most affordable one in the market, thanks!

Plans are still very similar across other companies and they’re the hard product. The more important aspect that you may want to focus on would be the softer part which comes in the form of advice and service.

Did someone work out the sums for you on how much you need and why you need a whole life with ECI plan instead of a term plan for example?

GCFLP is indeed quite competitive now which has a few edges unique to GE which are:

1. Presumptive TPD is really covered for life (not 70, not 99)
2. Accidental TPD of additional 100% from base amount
3. Structured as a base+booster rather than the traditional multiplier
4. ECI cap of $350k which is $100k higher than most other insurers

If you’re going for the most effective coverage for the lowest premiums, a min base of $30k which covers you for life would be recommended along with the booster to your desired amount.

 

[boredboiboi]

Hi,

I am currently 26 yo, planning to purchase a whole life plan with coverage for early critical illness. My main concern is for ECI.

Currently considering between Aviva's MyWholeLife plan and Great Eastern's Great Complete Flexi Living. I have attended sessions with agents and unfortunately, I still can't really make up my mind. Aviva is cheaper but I lean towards GE personally because my parents bought a lot of my insurances from GE and I am more "used" to them.

Would be grateful for any advice on which whole life plan + ECI is the most affordable one in the market, thanks!

Stick with what u r comfortable with. But what are you “used” to them?
its ur money aftetall, you are the one that is paying extra, not ur parents.

the most affordable one in the market so far would be still manulife and aviva supposely but a real quotation will then know the answer.

 

[boredboiboi]

Plans are still very similar across other companies and they’re the hard product. The more important aspect that you may want to focus on would be the softer part which comes in the form of advice and service.

Did someone work out the sums for you on how much you need and why you need a whole life with ECI plan instead of a term plan for example?

GCFLP is indeed quite competitive now which has a few edges unique to GE which are:

1. Presumptive TPD is really covered for life (not 70, not 99)
2. Accidental TPD of additional 100% from base amount
3. Structured as a base+booster rather than the traditional multiplier
4. ECI cap of $350k which is $100k higher than most other insurers

If you’re going for the most effective coverage for the lowest premiums, a min base of $30k which covers you for life would be recommended along with the booster to your desired amount.

What does your point 3 means? Isnt it the same? Its just different company uses diff words, booster and multiplier is the same and all come with base as well.