Getting started with insurance

[mSnooze]

Hi been reading and looking to get some view how should I approach to hedge risk for dependents

Profile
- 37yo male/non-smoker married, sole bread winner
- dependent = wife 31yo. No kids yet (might have if before 40)
- existing policies Term D/TPD (100K) with CI rider (50K) to age 75 (me)
- hospitalization prushield (me and wife)
- No DI or early CI yet
- may get a house in the few years to come
- no health issues

Priority/goals
=> Life/TPD dependent (and house loan liability in future)
=> CI + disability income
=> early CI


1. considering D/TPD 500K may be sufficient for wife to have 3 years of worry free but also considering if amount should be 1mil if housing since housing loan will likely happen within 5 years. or should I consider this addition or a mortgage insurance (declining SAM) in future?
2. thinking CI of 200-300K is likely sufficient to help with financial burden should prushield not cover etc (non hospitalization bills).
3. Disability income (Aviva idealincome $4000 till 65yo = premium $80/month)
4. Early CI* (considering aviva multipay critical illness 3 $100K for mix stages till 65yo = premium $150/month)

Considering the above, I feel solutions below may be adequate
A. Minimal check & balance --> DPI term 400K with CI to age 65 (aviva or axa DPI = premium $125/mth) + Aviva's DI 4K for 80/month; total $205/month premium
B. Term 1mil death + 300k CI + 4000 DI = maybe around $300/month premium

*thinking early CI is a little too expensive, < 10years worth of savings.

1. As a sole bread winner, I will recommend getting a level term insurance instead, since in the event anything happen to you, you will definitely prefer to leave money for your family to use while your wife prepare to enter the workforce, rather than mortgage just enough to cover your housing liability.

2. According to a ST article release 2-3 months back, CI coverage should be at least 3.8 times your annual income.

3. Currently there's a 35% perpetual discount for Aviva's IdealIncome, so it will be cheaper than that.

4. Aviva MultiPay CI is a cheap plan considering how comprehensive it is, you can consider it if your budget allows it.

 

[BBCWatcher]

2. According to a ST article release 2-3 months back, CI coverage should be at least 3.8 times your annual income.

Which article, who wrote it, and why 3.8 times one's annual income...which doesn't make any logical sense at all, because the alleged hazards that CI is supposed to combat are not income dependent?

 

[Tesla8]

Is there any medical/health insurance that is applicable to Singapore PR who may be out of Singapore for more than 90 days at one stretch? Had checked with GE, they said their plans are not applicable if out of Singapore for more than 90 days at one stretch.

 

[bigfoot90]

Hi been reading and looking to get some view how should I approach to hedge risk for dependents

Profile
- 37yo male/non-smoker married, sole bread winner
- dependent = wife 31yo. No kids yet (might have if before 40)
- existing policies Term D/TPD (100K) with CI rider (50K) to age 75 (me)
- hospitalization prushield (me and wife)
- No DI or early CI yet
- may get a house in the few years to come
- no health issues

Priority/goals
=> Life/TPD dependent (and house loan liability in future)
=> CI + disability income
=> early CI


1. considering D/TPD 500K may be sufficient for wife to have 3 years of worry free but also considering if amount should be 1mil if housing since housing loan will likely happen within 5 years. or should I consider this addition or a mortgage insurance (declining SAM) in future?
2. thinking CI of 200-300K is likely sufficient to help with financial burden should prushield not cover etc (non hospitalization bills).
3. Disability income (Aviva idealincome $4000 till 65yo = premium $80/month)
4. Early CI* (considering aviva multipay critical illness 3 $100K for mix stages till 65yo = premium $150/month)

Considering the above, I feel solutions below may be adequate
A. Minimal check & balance --> DPI term 400K with CI to age 65 (aviva or axa DPI = premium $125/mth) + Aviva's DI 4K for 80/month; total $205/month premium
B. Term 1mil death + 300k CI + 4000 DI = maybe around $300/month premium

*thinking early CI is a little too expensive, < 10years worth of savings.

Sup bro, just my humble 2 cents worth of opinions to address your concerns.

1. For your sum assured wrt death/TPD/CI, you should do a proper analysis based on your financial liabilities (taking into consideration your future plans to get a house in a few years time). Of cos, the final amount required for the sum assured may be reduced depending on the budget you can afford.

2. Early CI should be included in your financial planning provided that it is within your budget once again. With the advancement in medical technology and increased stress levels in Singapore, early CI detection is getting more common.

Ultimately, you mentioned hedging risk for your dependents. why not talk to your insurance agent about these concerns?

 

[haven11]

Is there any medical/health insurance that is applicable to Singapore PR who may be out of Singapore for more than 90 days at one stretch? Had checked with GE, they said their plans are not applicable if out of Singapore for more than 90 days at one stretch.

hi tesla8 - [A] if you're looking for long term cover for later years in singapore, it is good to consider some local cover at early age despite not being in singapore currently (due to work/travel nature). you will probably consider travel insurance as well but since annuals do not cover more than 90 days per trip, single trip travel insurance is the answer for > 90days.
with my limited experience, I think combination A + B is necessary (unless work covers adequately for B//mostly I didnt think so)... this comes from experience sharing that spent a lot of early days travelling for work > 40% but only to switch into different roles in late 30s.

 

[Tesla8]

hi tesla8 - [A] if you're looking for long term cover for later years in singapore, it is good to consider some local cover at early age despite not being in singapore currently (due to work/travel nature). you will probably consider travel insurance as well but since annuals do not cover more than 90 days per trip, single trip travel insurance is the answer for > 90days.
with my limited experience, I think combination A + B is necessary (unless work covers adequately for B//mostly I didnt think so)... this comes from experience sharing that spent a lot of early days travelling for work > 40% but only to switch into different roles in late 30s.

Hi Haven11,

Thanks for your reply, do you know of any insurance company that accept health/medical coverage for Singapore PR if they are out of Singapore for more than 90 days? Budget $1000-2000 per annum.

 

[haven11]

BBCWatcher, mSnooze, oceanicmanta, bigfoot90 - thanks for your replies.

bigfoot90 - 1. yes they are... 2. ECI currently not, due to budget [i would but DI takes priority] 3. I get good experience sharing/live examples here, overall seems more reasonable than agents I have met...

mSnooze - 1. agree for the bigger amt level term, accompanying ci conditions seems slightly better than DPI. I read more this morning and seemingly 1.2-1.4 mil is good for family with 2 kids. 2. I agree with BBCWatcher on the thought CI to pickup health expense (if not covered by hospitalization)/related funding assist needed for late CI. I reasoned out 200-300k seems sufficient, added with Disability Income (3-6K), becomes reasonably adequate. 3 & 4. yes Aviva policies are very compelling though they are are a few investment grades below AXA (plus concentration risk).

oceanicmata - both wife and I do not qualify unfortunately....


*Further questions:
1. Any advice for good competitor products to aviva Ideal Income (DI) or MP CI 3 (ECI).
2. I had understood that most term policies premiums are level (unless the SA cover amount changes). so can I assume CI rider premium does not increase for level Term Death/TPD policies? Does the "premium may change according to insurer with 1 month notice" apply only to CI standalone policy? Has anyone seen their CI premium increase before?
3. Is it common to have DI premiums increase in later stages or are they level once locked-in?
4. With basic DPS (both) covering up to 46K, does it make sense to place additional cover for wife?
5. If I add all the coverage term 1M + 300 CI + 4000 DI + prushield (for both), premium stays within $500/month. Does this sound reasonable safe/hedged as premiums looks affordable even with future mortgage included.
6. anyone with experience with diyinsurance?

1. As a sole bread winner, I will recommend getting a level term insurance instead, since in the event anything happen to you, you will definitely prefer to leave money for your family to use while your wife prepare to enter the workforce, rather than mortgage just enough to cover your housing liability.

2. According to a ST article release 2-3 months back, CI coverage should be at least 3.8 times your annual income.

3. Currently there's a 35% perpetual discount for Aviva's IdealIncome, so it will be cheaper than that.

4. Aviva MultiPay CI is a cheap plan considering how comprehensive it is, you can consider it if your budget allows it.

 

[haven11]

I think many here are much more experienced than I am in terms of recommendation... but I think important to clarify do you mean health/medical coverage... the coverage for while you are out of singapore (travelling) or a general cover when you are within singapore? there is no annual coverage if your travel is greater than 90days per travel, you can only do per trip basis.

if you are looking to get medical/death cover while travelling outside Singapore >90 days, you can only get single trip coverage. Largely depending on what risks to mitigate, so what are your activities while abroad ie. is it work, holiday, adventure/risky sports? you need to share more for people to name which companies are good in which areas.

more often than times I went with MSIG as they have decent cover for work related ie. theft, travel issues (includes cover for international driving) and medical limit seems ok. they were pretty quick in service/emergency. I have not had a claim, but hear that they are decent. others can pitch in I suppose.

If you are indeed travelling for work, you might want to check with HR as work often covers the premium for their panel.

Hi Haven11,

Thanks for your reply, do you know of any insurance company that accept health/medical coverage for Singapore PR if they are out of Singapore for more than 90 days? Budget $1000-2000 per annum.

 

[Tesla8]

I think many here are much more experienced than I am in terms of recommendation... but I think important to clarify do you mean health/medical coverage... the coverage for while you are out of singapore (travelling) or a general cover when you are within singapore? there is no annual coverage if your travel is greater than 90days per travel, you can only do per trip basis.

if you are looking to get medical/death cover while travelling outside Singapore >90 days, you can only get single trip coverage. Largely depending on what risks to mitigate, so what are your activities while abroad ie. is it work, holiday, adventure/risky sports? you need to share more for people to name which companies are good in which areas.

more often than times I went with MSIG as they have decent cover for work related ie. theft, travel issues (includes cover for international driving) and medical limit seems ok. they were pretty quick in service/emergency. I have not had a claim, but hear that they are decent. others can pitch in I suppose.

If you are indeed travelling for work, you might want to check with HR as work often covers the premium for their panel.

Sorry, I should've been clearer. I am looking for something like Great Eastern Supreme Health/Total health or similar. Not travel insurance.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Thanks for your reply, do you know of any insurance company that accept health/medical coverage for Singapore PR if they are out of Singapore for more than 90 days? Budget $1000-2000 per annum.

you will probably consider travel insurance as well but since annuals do not cover more than 90 days per trip, single trip travel insurance is the answer for > 90days.

That's not true, actually. Here are a couple counter examples:

1. World Nomads offers a travel medical insurance policy that can last as long as 12 months and that allows one home country visit (excluded from coverage while in home country) within the policy term. So it's a two home country trip annual travel medical insurance plan, really.

2. SafetyWing (from Tokio Marine) lets you buy a 13 month policy that allows return visits to your home country for up to 30 days (total) per three month period -- and with coverage in your home country! Please read the exact policy language for details. If you're age 18 to 39 then a 13 month policy costs US$480.48 for US$250,000 of coverage, and excluding coverage in the United States. You can add coverage in the United States, but that'll nearly double the premium.

On edit: To be clear, SafetyWing is really not appropriate for U.S. coverage. Its US$250K coverage limit is too low for the U.S., in my view. A single trip to a U.S. hospital emergency room with an ICU stay can rapidly blow past US$250K.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Sorry, I should've been clearer. I am looking for something like Great Eastern Supreme Health/Total health or similar. Not travel insurance.

OK, check out SafetyWing to see if it works for you.

Otherwise, maybe you're looking for "global expatriate" medical insurance, which is available from Cigna, Aetna, IMG, Bupa, Integra, Clements, and some other carriers.

 

[bigfoot90]

Sorry, I should've been clearer. I am looking for something like Great Eastern Supreme Health/Total health or similar. Not travel insurance.

Isn't the Supreme health/Total health a medisave approved integrated shield plan? the purpose of an integrated shield plan would be to cover hospitalisation
cost as well as pre and post hospitalisation expenses. whats important here is to ensure that whatever the plan you're keen to get, it has to meet your intended purpose.

 

[haven11]

I think BBCWatcher is right, he is looking for a overall expat type cover ie. medical card, global coverage.

 

[bigfoot90]

BBCWatcher, mSnooze, oceanicmanta, bigfoot90 - thanks for your replies.



*Further questions:
1. Any advice for good competitor products to aviva Ideal Income (DI) or MP CI 3 (ECI).
2. I had understood that most term policies premiums are level (unless the SA cover amount changes). so can I assume CI rider premium does not increase for level Term Death/TPD policies? Does the "premium may change according to insurer with 1 month notice" apply only to CI standalone policy? Has anyone seen their CI premium increase before?
3. Is it common to have DI premiums increase in later stages or are they level once locked-in?
4. With basic DPS (both) covering up to 46K, does it make sense to place additional cover for wife?
5. If I add all the coverage term 1M + 300 CI + 4000 DI + prushield (for both), premium stays within $500/month. Does this sound reasonable safe/hedged as premiums looks affordable even with future mortgage included.
6. anyone with experience with diyinsurance?

1. most insurance companies will follow suit each other when one has a new product launch. you could check out Manulife's Ready Completecare or Prudential's Prutriple protect. usually the different policies from each company will be similar with slight differences.

2. company has the right to increase CI rider premium with 30 days notice provided. but honestly, I've not seen this happen before. the reason they put this clause is probably due to the fear that if suddenly one year, an absurd amount of people start to get CI and the company experiences overwhelming CI claims.

3. DI is usually leveled once locked in.

4. i believe the question here is weather your wife has any financial liabilities that needs to be addressed and if yes? would $46k to the age of 65 be enough? if the answer is no, then there is a protect gap. (do take note that DPS doesn't cover for CI)

5. to really answer this question, you'd need to do a proper financial analysis. spending habits, liabilities and for how long the policy term lasts all play a part. your concerns and priorities will also be needed to be taken into consideration.

6. at least not me. haha

hope this helps.

 

[Tesla8]

OK, check out SafetyWing to see if it works for you.

Otherwise, maybe you're looking for "global expatriate" medical insurance, which is available from Cigna, Aetna, IMG, Bupa, and some other carriers.

Hi BBC Watcher,

My plan is to get medical/health/hospitalization insurance for my wife (SG PR) before I retire and return to Singapore in maybe 5-7 years. I am afraid that it may get more expensive when we get older.

 

[Tesla8]

Isn't the Supreme health/Total health a medisave approved integrated shield plan? the purpose of an integrated shield plan would be to cover hospitalisation
cost as well as pre and post hospitalisation expenses. whats important here is to ensure that whatever the plan you're keen to get, it has to meet your intended purpose.

Hi bigfoot,

I am not looking global coverage, looking for coverage in Singapore only.
Great Eastern said my wife must not be out of Singapore for more than 90 days each time.

 

[bigfoot90]

Hi bigfoot,

I am not looking global coverage, looking for coverage in Singapore only.
Great Eastern said my wife must not be out of Singapore for more than 90 days each time.

its abit strange that great eastern would say that. i don't think there's any clause regarding this thou. haha

 

[BBCWatcher]

I am not looking global coverage, looking for coverage in Singapore only.
Great Eastern said my wife must not be out of Singapore for more than 90 days each time.

My plan is to get medical/health/hospitalization insurance for my wife (SG PR) before I retire and return to Singapore in maybe 5-7 years. I am afraid that it may get more expensive when we get older.

Your wife has a bigger problem in that scenario: her Re-Entry Permit (REP) is unlikely to be renewed if she is no longer a de facto resident of Singapore. The Singapore Immigration and Checkpoints Authority (ICA) is the agency that handles REP renewals, and not-so-coincidentally ICA knows exactly how often and for how long a PR has been outside Singapore. If your wife is outside Singapore when her REP expires, her PR status ends.

OK, leaving that important issue aside, your wife is perfectly free to maintain Integrated Shield plan coverage as long as she is a PR, and no matter what her travel and residence patterns. Ordinarily a "loosely attached" PR would consider keeping some level of Integrated Shield continuous coverage, most probably a public hospital plan. For example, she could maintain public hospital A ward coverage with Prudential's PRUshield Plus. I took a look through their policy document and see nothing that would prevent a "loosely attached" PR from obtaining coverage in Singapore. Maybe Great Eastern's policy wording is different?

 

[Tesla8]

Your wife has a bigger problem in that scenario: her Re-Entry Permit (REP) is unlikely to be renewed if she is no longer a de facto resident of Singapore. The Singapore Immigration and Checkpoints Authority (ICA) is the agency that handles REP renewals, and not-so-coincidentally ICA knows exactly how often and for how long a PR has been outside Singapore. If your wife is outside Singapore when her REP expires, her PR status ends.

OK, leaving that important issue aside, your wife is perfectly free to maintain Integrated Shield plan coverage as long as she is a PR, and no matter what her travel and residence patterns. Ordinarily a "loosely attached" PR would consider keeping some level of Integrated Shield continuous coverage, most probably a public hospital plan. For example, she could maintain public hospital A ward coverage with Prudential's PRUshield Plus. I took a look through their policy document and see nothing that would prevent a "loosely attached" PR from obtaining coverage in Singapore. Maybe Great Eastern's policy wording is different?

Thanks BBCWatcher,

Will contact Prudential.

 

[mSnooze]

BBCWatcher, mSnooze, oceanicmanta, bigfoot90 - thanks for your replies.

bigfoot90 - 1. yes they are... 2. ECI currently not, due to budget [i would but DI takes priority] 3. I get good experience sharing/live examples here, overall seems more reasonable than agents I have met...

mSnooze - 1. agree for the bigger amt level term, accompanying ci conditions seems slightly better than DPI. I read more this morning and seemingly 1.2-1.4 mil is good for family with 2 kids. 2. I agree with BBCWatcher on the thought CI to pickup health expense (if not covered by hospitalization)/related funding assist needed for late CI. I reasoned out 200-300k seems sufficient, added with Disability Income (3-6K), becomes reasonably adequate. 3 & 4. yes Aviva policies are very compelling though they are are a few investment grades below AXA (plus concentration risk).

oceanicmata - both wife and I do not qualify unfortunately....


*Further questions:
1. Any advice for good competitor products to aviva Ideal Income (DI) or MP CI 3 (ECI).
2. I had understood that most term policies premiums are level (unless the SA cover amount changes). so can I assume CI rider premium does not increase for level Term Death/TPD policies? Does the "premium may change according to insurer with 1 month notice" apply only to CI standalone policy? Has anyone seen their CI premium increase before?
3. Is it common to have DI premiums increase in later stages or are they level once locked-in?
4. With basic DPS (both) covering up to 46K, does it make sense to place additional cover for wife?
5. If I add all the coverage term 1M + 300 CI + 4000 DI + prushield (for both), premium stays within $500/month. Does this sound reasonable safe/hedged as premiums looks affordable even with future mortgage included.
6. anyone with experience with diyinsurance?

1. DI: There's AIA and GE as well. Multipay CI: Most company have them, newer one's from Aviva and Manulife
2. All CI rider are level but not guaranteed, insurer have the rights to adjust premium with 30 days' notice. It might happen if there is suddenly surge in claims island wide to cover the costs incur, rare occurrence.
3. Level premium once policy is enforce.
4. Require in depth Need's Analysis to determine.
5. Same, coverage requires analysis to determine. Fyi your 1M +300k CI + 4000 DI will equates to roughly 270/month, covering till 70.
6. No experience as I'm one myself.