Getting started with insurance

[moejoseph]

Chill guys, friendly discussion here

 

[dgenex]

Just found out from my dad that he bought for me an IP Shield plan very long ago, its the "NTUC Incomeshield Plan A", but as I saw from this link on MOH website, https://www.moh.gov.sg/docs/librariesprovider5/integrated-shield-plans-documents/comparison-of-class-a-ips-(1-jan-2019).pdf, there seems to be many limits on the daily/monthly charges for each category, whereas newer plans mostly cover "As Charged".

Would there be any point in cancelling and getting a new one? Not sure as I'm currently diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes and any new plans most likely wont cover?

 

[BBCWatcher]

Would there be any point in cancelling and getting a new one? Not sure as I'm currently diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes and any new plans most likely wont cover?

That’s correct. If you switch carriers you’re subject to a preexisting condition reset. If you switch plans within NTUC you might be subject to a preexisting condition reset. (That’d be something to check with the carrier and will vary depending on the plan switch.)

There’s one possible exception. Raffles Shield is sometimes willing to accept diabetes enrollees if their condition is well managed and without a care exclusion, although other preexisting conditions (if any) could be excluded from coverage. Raffles Shield happens to have a good public hospital A ward plan, so you could check with them to see whether they’d accept you without excluding care that might be associated with your diabetes.

IncomeShield Plan A is a decent plan, though. Although there are sublimits that you have to watch out for — and those sublimits will be increasingly constraining as medical inflation continues apace — you’re allowed to obtain care from any medical provider without proration factors.

 

[moejoseph]

Just found out from my dad that he bought for me an IP Shield plan very long ago, its the "NTUC Incomeshield Plan A", but as I saw from this link on MOH website, https://www.moh.gov.sg/docs/librariesprovider5/integrated-shield-plans-documents/comparison-of-class-a-ips-(1-jan-2019).pdf, there seems to be many limits on the daily/monthly charges for each category, whereas newer plans mostly cover "As Charged".

Would there be any point in cancelling and getting a new one? Not sure as I'm currently diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes and any new plans most likely wont cover?

Have to agree with Bro BBCWatcher on this. If u already have a shield plan, and with pre-existing condition covered, then there will be no point for your to switch, as the existing consition will most likely be bound by exclusion, especially if you are still on medication.

Raffles Shield Plan A is a plan you can look at which may cover pre-existing condition, but ultimately it will still be subjected to their underwriting as well.

 

[bubbasour]

OK, taking these in reverse order:

1. For public hospital A ward coverage, take a look at Prudential PRUshield Plus, Raffles Shield A, and AXA Shield Plan B. Note that all of these plans provide some coverage for private hospitals, but they just do it using a proration factor (meaning that you’re responsible for a certain percentage of the bill before insurance kicks in). So you can still “dabble” in private hospital care if you wish, but you just have to come up with some more MediSave and/or cash.

2. For public hospital A ward coverage plus Raffles Hospital, there’s only one choice: Raffles Shield A with the Raffles Hospital Option.

3. For private hospital coverage there are a lot of choices, but AIA HealthShield Gold Max A is rather interesting because, if you stick to their “in network” (panel) medical providers (which also includes all public hospitals — although this is not the right plan if you’re going to choose public hospitals for all your care needs), you get the longest pre-/post-hospitalization coverage window (13 months/13 months) and a whopping $2 million annual claim limit. But it’s an expensive plan and getting more expensive faster due to the medical inflation factors I mentioned.


Yes, the Ministry of Health has comparison tables available here. But you still ought to investigate with each carrier and read their actual policy letters carefully, to make sure you understand all the terms and conditions.

We still haven’t discussed overseas urgent care, i.e. travel medical insurance. I still like Bupa’s “Basic” annual travel medical insurance plan that’s available for purchase from Bupa Global’s Web site. (Check each currency choice to find the lowest premium, usually in British pounds.) If you only venture outside Singapore one or a couple times per year, and especially if you don’t visit a high cost/high risk medical care country, then you might do a little better with single trip travel medical insurance.

hi BBCWatcher, I want to further explore the Prudential Prushield and Term insurances.

If I deal with an agent, will they add margins, or is it recommended to call prudential directly? Pls let me know if know you can recommend someone. thx

 

[BBCWatcher]

If I deal with an agent, will they add margins, or is it recommended to call prudential directly?

For their Integrated Shield plans there’s no difference. Prudential offers a 10% discount on first year premiums if you’re affiliated with certain employers, and that offer will be available (if you qualify) through any of their channels.

On the other hand, term life insurance is available through direct purchase, and that’s often a more competitive offer. Check the Web site comparefirst.sg for quotations before you get quotations from an agent or other channel.

 

[triface]

Hi all, 26 year old male here, non-smoker. Currently studying full-time but have a pool of savings that I'm using which should last me until I go back out into the workforce. Both my parents are 62.

I'm doing a review of my insurance coverage for the first time and taking over the payments. Just need a nudge in the right direction. I'm looking to protect against having to dip into my savings too much for accidents and illnesses.

I'm currently only covered under AIA HealthShield Gold Max A, which is an IP covering private hospitalization as well. I'm paying $300 annually for that. It still has a deductible and co-insurance portion.

My understanding from reading the entire thread is, in terms of priority:

1. Life insurance with dependents
2. Integrated plan
3. Disability insurance
4. Early critical illness
5. Life insurance without dependents

Would the next step be to look at DI and early critical illness?

 

[oceanicmanta]

Hi all, 26 year old male here, non-smoker. Currently studying full-time but have a pool of savings that I'm using which should last me until I go back out into the workforce. Both my parents are 62.

I'm doing a review of my insurance coverage for the first time and taking over the payments. Just need a nudge in the right direction. I'm looking to protect against having to dip into my savings too much for accidents and illnesses.

I'm currently only covered under AIA HealthShield Gold Max A, which is an IP covering private hospitalization as well. I'm paying $300 annually for that. It still has a deductible and co-insurance portion.

My understanding from reading the entire thread is, in terms of priority:

1. Life insurance with dependents
2. Integrated plan
3. Disability insurance
4. Early critical illness
5. Life insurance without dependents

Would the next step be to look at DI and early critical illness?

Are u eligible for AVIVA MINDEF Group Term Life policies ?

 

[BBCWatcher]

I'm currently only covered under AIA HealthShield Gold Max A, which is an IP covering private hospitalization as well. I'm paying $300 annually for that. It still has a deductible and co-insurance portion.

You might take a look at shifting to Gold Max B with the new rule compliant rider (when available, soon if not already). I happen to think that’s a better fit/mix in Singapore.

My understanding from reading the entire thread is, in terms of priority:

1. Life insurance with dependents
2. Integrated plan
3. Disability insurance
4. Early critical illness
5. Life insurance without dependents

Actually, I’d push DII right to the top. Allow me to explain, briefly.

Let’s suppose you’re married, and so your spouse is your dependent. In Scenario #1, you die, and your spouse has to carry on without you. Your spouse would have to enter (or reenter) the workforce, and that’d be disruptive and awkward. However, in Scenario #2, you don’t die, but you’re disabled and cannot work. That’s worse in terms of impact on your spouse. Not only does your spouse have to enter (or reenter) the workforce, but he/she somehow has to provide for you, since you are now his/her dependent — and a very heavy one who could well have significant care needs. If you’re dead you cannot be a drain on household resources. Your income falls to zero either way, but a zero entry in the household budget is better than a negative, recurring entry in the household budget.

DII protects against Scenario #2. It also protects yourself, even as a single.

Anyway, it’s SUPER important. In the Singapore context we — well, citizens and PRs anyway — have MediShield Life and MediSave, and that’s some baseline medical insurance that’ll get you into Class C in public hospitals at least. So that’s why I rank DII ahead of hospitalization insurance.

Anyway, I’d rank them this way: DII, life insurance (if you have at least one dependent), Integrated Shield (public hospital).

Life insurance if you have no dependents is worthless. The “Total and Permanent Disability” insurance has some value, particularly if you don’t have dependents, but you’ll be obliged to go onto CareShield Life (and will be eligible to go onto it if you’re disabled at age 30), so you’ve already got some coverage there. CSL is better in certain ways than TPD.

 

[triface]

Are u eligible for AVIVA MINDEF Group Term Life policies ?

Hello, I just did a check on the website and I think I'm eligible as an MHA NSman. From what I can see, it's primarily a term life insurance and/or personal accident insurance with the option of a CI rider, and another rider to increase the coverage of CI.

What's the general view of PA? I don't think I saw mention of PA in the previous pages.

You might take a look at shifting to Gold Max B with the new rule compliant rider (when available, soon if not already). I happen to think that’s a better fit/mix in Singapore.

Thanks for the advice! I just did a check and the only difference between A and B would be B is more public hospital centric, but still covers up to A class ward.

Pardon the very suaku question, but I assume there would be benefits associated with the higher costs of a private hospital? My sister much prefers to go private, but I've never really pried for the reasons why. Extrapolating from your advice, would I be right in saying you're satisfied with the public hospitals?

Actually, I’d push DII right to the top. Allow me to explain, briefly

Thanks! I think I see your point. Disability would most likely be more debilitating than critical illness, since you can possibly still supplement income in the latter situation. Would that be your viewpoint?

 

[BBCWatcher]

I just did a check and the only difference between A and B would be B is more public hospital centric, but still covers up to A class ward.

Right, and a rule complaint rider added to the base plan would cap your annual out of pocket costs for covered services to $3,000, most or all of which would typically be MediSave payable.

Extrapolating from your advice, would I be right in saying you're satisfied with the public hospitals?

I am.

Disability would most likely be more debilitating than critical illness, since you can possibly still supplement income in the latter situation. Would that be your viewpoint?

It's hard to imagine a more catastrophic life event in Singapore than becoming disabled, unable to work and to earn an income -- among events that insurance could make better, that is. (There are some catastrophes that insurance payouts cannot make better.) I rank DII as something like the king or queen of personal insurance products. It's reeeeaalllly important, especially in Singapore.

 

[oceanicmanta]

@triface

Would recommend getting MHA Term Life, it is good value.

You can also consider the MHA Living Care (CI rider). At your age, premiums are very affordable now (but will increase with age).

You can add spouse & children in future.

My nephew is of your age & I estimated that for him using Mindef GTL + ECI + CI cover, the total premiums paid would be less than other insurers' (sum of total level premium) up til 68 years old ... beyond that, Aviva Mindef policies would cost more (albeit not accounting for TVM).

You may need some CI cover now to preserve your (or family) savings if something happens. In future, your savings could be your CI cover.

I am not so sure about need for ECI though.

My priority is to ensure I have access to good & fast treatment. I am also on AIA Gold Max A and had the Essential A rider (zero Co-Payment & Deductible). Premiums were much lower then. I recently switched to A-Saver which is much more practical for my needs.

Even though I am ok with treatment at public hospitals, I still think Private provides faster consultation, diagnosis, treatment if need arises. The waiting time for specialist consultation at Public hospital can be long. Especially at your age, you want to treated fast & recover quickly. For now, would suggest keep Max A & consider A-Saver rider if premiums are affordable.

You shld consider DII when you start work. My time, I did not have any bcos it was expensive and I probably got my priorities wrong then.

As a student, you can consider a PA plan (for outpatient medical, sprains, injury etc) especially if you are active. Sompo PA Star is a better product than AVIVA MHA PA. Once you start work, your employer medical should kick in and with a Term life plan, you may not need separate PA. Not high priority.

Keep to Term plans so that premiums remain affordable. Build up your own savings & invest prudently.

Whole life plans may sound attractive, with cash values/projected returns after X years. From experience, these would just complicate matters down the road. Don't mix insurance with investment/savings.

Every person's needs are unique. Your needs will change over time.

 

[triface]

@triface

Would recommend getting MHA Term Life, it is good value.

You can also consider the MHA Living Care (CI rider). At your age, premiums are very affordable now (but will increase with age).

You can add spouse & children in future.

My nephew is of your age & I estimated that for him using Mindef GTL + ECI + CI cover, the total premiums paid would be less than other insurers' (sum of total level premium) up til 68 years old ... beyond that, Aviva Mindef policies would cost more (albeit not accounting for TVM).

Thanks, will check it out soon! Currently putting all the information together in a spreadsheet.

Even though I am ok with treatment at public hospitals, I still think Private provides faster consultation, diagnosis, treatment if need arises. The waiting time for specialist consultation at Public hospital can be long. Especially at your age, you want to treated fast & recover quickly. For now, would suggest keep Max A & consider A-Saver rider if premiums are affordable.

I was looking through the schedule earlier. Would I be right to say the A Saver has no deductible only for public hospital treatment?

 

[oceanicmanta]

Thanks, will check it out soon! Currently putting all the information together in a spreadsheet.


I was looking through the schedule earlier. Would I be right to say the A Saver has no deductible only for public hospital treatment?

https://www.aia.com.sg/content/dam/...a-health-shield-gold-max-english-brochure.pdf

See Pg 10 - with A Saver, the deductible is covered if you are treated at AIA's panel specialist or Public Hospital.

You will need to pay deductible if you are treated at non-AIA specialist / private hospital. The deductible amount is $3500 per policy year (see Pg 7), which is standard amount regardless if you are AIA Gold Max A or B and can use Medisave.

 

[BBCWatcher]

The current riders won’t be on sale after March 31, 2019. And even if you do sign up for one of the current riders, you’ll have to switch to a new rule compliant rider within a couple years.

At this point I’d take a look at the rule compliant riders (if they aren’t already announced) and, if one looks like a good value, buy it on April 1, 2019.

 

[moejoseph]

The current riders won’t be on sale after March 31, 2019. And even if you do sign up for one of the current riders, you’ll have to switch to a new rule compliant rider within a couple years.

At this point I’d take a look at the rule compliant riders (if they aren’t already announced) and, if one looks like a good value, buy it on April 1, 2019.

AXA recently announced a new compliant rider, which will be available on 1 Apr 2019. Anyone who needs further info, let me know

https://www.axa.com.sg/our-solutions/personal/health/axa-shield/axa-enhanced-care

 

[BBCWatcher]

AXA recently announced a new compliant rider, which will be available on 1 Apr 2019. Anyone who needs further info, let me know

Well, Raffles Shield is already selling its rule compliant rider, and Prudential has also announced theirs, for sale from April 1, 2019. All the insurers are going to be announcing their rule compliant riders imminently if they haven’t already.

The original poster has AIA, and AIA has announced their rule compliant rider, called “AIA Max VitalHealth.” It too will be available for sale from April 1, 2019.

 

[oceanicmanta]

The current riders won’t be on sale after March 31, 2019. And even if you do sign up for one of the current riders, you’ll have to switch to a new rule compliant rider within a couple years.

At this point I’d take a look at the rule compliant riders (if they aren’t already announced) and, if one looks like a good value, buy it on April 1, 2019.

what's the downside of buying existing rider (such as A-Saver) now to get himself covered, then switch to rule compliant rider when needed in the next 2 years (ie when forced to or when premiums drastically increase) ?

Currently for his age group, A-Saver at $277 ($0 co-payment & deductible using panel doctors) seems no-brainer (and rather affordable) when compared to AXA rule-compliant rider at $300 ($3k co-payment cap).

I believe pro-rated unused premium paid can be refunded when switching.

 

[moejoseph]

what's the downside of buying existing rider (such as A-Saver) now to get himself covered, then switch to rule compliant rider when needed in the next 2 years (ie when forced to or when premiums drastically increase) ?

Currently for his age group, A-Saver at $277 ($0 co-payment & deductible using panel doctors) seems no-brainer (and rather affordable) when compared to AXA rule-compliant rider at $300 ($3k co-payment cap).

I believe pro-rated unused premium paid can be refunded when switching.

There's no downside for this. Most of my clients do this to get themselves fully insured first, till when it is compulsory to change to the new compliant rider.

Only downside will be the paperwork, but that's for the agent to handle haha

 

[BBCWatcher]

Please note there are two different insurance carriers with too similar names: AIA and AXA. If you are shopping for a rider for your AIA Integrated Shield policy, then you don't need (and cannot get) an AXA rider, and vice versa.

OK, with that said, the carriers vary on this. With some carriers the new rule compliant riders have lower premiums, and with other carriers they don't (inexplicably), at least for now. So if you want a rider -- not a given! -- and the carrier's current/old rider is better than their new rule compliant rider, sure, get the old rider. You'll only get to keep it for a couple years, but you might as well enjoy those couple years. And one carrier (Raffles Shield) is only offering their new rule compliant rider at this point in time, so that's easy.