Getting ultrabook for com sci or IS. Freshie.

10e5x@1610

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Hi seniors,

My old laptop just deserted me. Burned. I am thinking of getting a new ultrabook for Uni. Will either get into Com Sci or IS. I have a few model in mind... mind giving some inputs/advices?

Asus ux31A
Asus ux32vd (will choose the one with FHD IPS Panel)
Samsung series 9
Lenovo Ideapad Yoga 13

I am thinking to go for I7 processor. As for RAM, any recommended size? As for hard disk, I am gg for SSD. Size? Lastly shall i stick with windows 7 or 8?

Thanks alot.
 

davidktw

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Hi seniors,

My old laptop just deserted me. Burned. I am thinking of getting a new ultrabook for Uni. Will either get into Com Sci or IS. I have a few model in mind... mind giving some inputs/advices?

Asus ux31A
Asus ux32vd (will choose the one with FHD IPS Panel)
Samsung series 9
Lenovo Ideapad Yoga 13

I am thinking to go for I7 processor. As for RAM, any recommended size? As for hard disk, I am gg for SSD. Size? Lastly shall i stick with windows 7 or 8?

Thanks alot.

Apple MBP Retina or MBA
 

davidktw

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Erm so sorry but i would not like a mac. Thanks for ur recommendation anyway

Pity then. In this case, you will never know what a beautiful unix system will be of value to a software developer :)
 

jhyeo900

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lol... definitely u dont need a powerful system. But try to get as much screen estate as possible... 13inch minimum..

And definitely u wont need a mac..
 

davidktw

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lol... definitely u dont need a powerful system. But try to get as much screen estate as possible... 13inch minimum..

And definitely u wont need a mac..

"Definitely" ? So why should we "Definitely" need a Windows ?
 

MoxLotus

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Get a Mac. save u all the trouble. Windows doesnt come with VIM!!! neither does it come with SSH.
 

davidktw

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Get a Mac. save u all the trouble. Windows doesnt come with VIM!!! neither does it come with SSH.

Well, these can't be the selling point of Mac :)

Windows can install GVIM and Putty is very functional as a SSH client too :)

Of course, for a holistic experience with beautiful minimalistic design machine and a powerful unix base system, there is nothing better you can ask for at the moment :p
 

10e5x@1610

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Get a Mac. save u all the trouble. Windows doesnt come with VIM!!! neither does it come with SSH.

Hi MoxLotus,

You have been providing me many useful info regarding my application to uni. Thanks alot. I have been offered both my first choice from NUS and NTU.
Nus IS and NTU CS. Most likely will accept NUS IS.

As for laptop...i still doing my research. Will looking into MAC as well since u recommends it, although i personally dont like MACs
 

davidktw

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How come ur world only got Mac and Windows? :s22:

My World is larger than you think :) It consist of HP-UX, Solaris, Linux, Mac OS X, OS/2, BeOS, PC-DOS, DR-DOS, MS-DOS(till 6.22), Windows 95/98/XP/Vista/7, Windows NT3.5/4/2003/2005/2008 Server. Haven't got a chance to touch on AIX yet.

However to satisfy the most obvious choice for TS, I only refer to Windows and Mac OS X. I will not recommend Linux unless he is adventurous enough to use it as a laptop or desktop. :)

Don't be mistaken if you think I might be biased towards Linux. I had my first laptop totally converted to Arch Linux in year 2000 when Redhat is only known up to either version 6/7. It's not dual boot, it's only Linux and nothing else on the laptop. :) I compiled my own kernel add in necessary drivers for some soft modem back in those days too. However I highly doubt you can find much passionate people still doing this nowadays.

I still use Linux day in and out, but this OS is better off as a server. That's how I feel. :)

Between the market easily available machines for consumers, namely Windows(any machine vendors), or Mac(Apple), or Linux(any machine vendors), I will encourage developers to go try out Mac. Microsoft Windows is a lousy development environment in my opinion.
 
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Death4ngel

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No prob. It's just that I don't like it when ppl say not A, then it automatically becomes B. In this case, not Mac = Windows.

My current netbook which I use in sch is also Arch Linux only. I even have to read a guide to on how to install it. =.=

Windows users are damn fortunate to be able to only click the next button.

I feel that it's sad for CS students to graduate without even using the terminal, or playing around with ur system. It's like when u actually have to DIY, all the textbooks and stuff u learn are not going to save u. :s13:

On the developer point, why Mac? Visual Studios is not that bad la. But of course my experience is far lesser than urs. So please pardon me for any stupid or wrong stuff that I said.
 

davidktw

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My current netbook which I use in sch is also Arch Linux only. I even have to read a guide to on how to install it. =.=

That's very good for you. At least you are willing to dive into the terminal world :)

Windows users are damn fortunate to be able to only click the next button.

I have my early computing experience using DOS and Windows, and true enough for most stuffs Windows make it mostly click and drag, which is good. But from a developer standpoint, you are more fortunate because the route you have taken would bring you much deeper foundation and knowledge than any Windows only developer will. You will be exposed to another side of software development where it is filled with a strong public community and tons of utilities and tools at your disposal.

I feel that it's sad for CS students to graduate without even using the terminal, or playing around with ur system. It's like when u actually have to DIY, all the textbooks and stuff u learn are not going to save u. :s13:

Of course, CS doesn't teach you how to put together a system, it's mostly a hobbyist skill set. It's very valuable indeed. You are right too, not just CS, for any software developer, if you don't know terminal, you are just still at the tip of the iceberg.

Using common sense, before graphical interface is popularize by PC, the cream of the crop in the IT industry are working on terminal. They are perfected daily use cases of development and best practices using terminals. In these terminal environments, tools and utilities are built to excel. Where in the daily operations of a development is doing mundane operations at times, the kind of automation and precision that a developer can get from skilful handling of terminal is invaluable.

On the developer point, why Mac? Visual Studios is not that bad la. But of course my experience is far lesser than urs. So please pardon me for any stupid or wrong stuff that I said.

There is nothing wrong with Visual Studio, but it is a monster. XCode also isn't better in this aspect. It's basically how Microsoft Windows is designed and its user interfaces and design concept that doesn't make it a development heaven.

I thought you never ask why Mac is better. Mac is lousy before OS X. When I was still a Microsoft Windows fanatic, someone long ago told me Mac is better. I debated with him, however, when I look back together, I gathered the kind of answers one nowadays heard about why stick with Windows is some of the following

- I have use it for years, I'm comfortable with it.
- I have some software only running in Windows.
- I need to play games and there are more titles in Windows, or better in Windows.
- My school or office is using Windows, the environment is not suitable to use Mac.

While some of these reasons are valid, but as a software developer, all these reasons are not good enough to not use Mac. I have being using Mac OS X for 10+ years, so if you can address me as an advance mac os x user. So why Mac ?

- It is a beautifully designed machine. I seek for perfection in development at times, and if you call Apple products badly design, you probably can't find another vendor that does better. My opinion of course.
- It has a powerful unix operating system at your disposal.
- It has all the basic utilities found in a unix system that allow a veteran developer to exercise all the skill sets working in terminal environment, like bash, vim, emacs, awk, sed, perl, php.... (you name it). If you work in a Linux environment for years, you will quickly appreciate the kind of power you get working between utilities riding on the powerful unix shell. In windows, you basically need to find an application just to get work done and yet not necessarily portable to another application. In linux, you integrate and glue things up easily using ruby, python, perl or other expressive scripting language, working on the same level as other common utilities like sort, uniq, cat, and so forth.
- Mac has package managers like hebrew and macports with repositories supported by a strong public community. Need a ruby, erlang, or ffmpeg, or any software normally found in Linux environment ? Do a "sudo port install ..."
- Mac has a sufficiently good user interface and user experience desktop when you just want to point and click to get work done.
- Using Parallels, VMware Fusion or Virtual Box, nothing is stopping you from having one or multiple Windows environments running within Mac OS X to get your other applications that only works in Windows working. I'm a Parallels user for a long time, the kind of integration you get between Mac and Windows guest OS is so seamless that it is like having 2 OS running side by side within the same machine. It's not that Windows doesn't have virtualization environment, VMWare also run in Windows, but it pales when compared to the kind of integration that Parallels offers between Mac and Windows.

If you are using multiple Apple products, like I do, obviously using iPad and Mini, iPhone, MBP, you will appreciate the seamless integration between all devices. Before Windows 8, integration doesn't exist. When Windows 8 finally comes, it sucks real big time. I got myself a license of Windows 8, and not decided to use, and go back to Windows 7 and XP on my guest VM. If you ask me for my opinion of Windows 8 and it's RT future, I have one word for them "MESSY"

That's being said, I didn't abandon Windows, I'm still waiting for Microsoft to clean up their mess, where my main platform is Mac, and getting my job done day in day out with leisure and precision.

I know you mentioned about Linux, why not use a Linux desktop or laptop. Give you one fantastic use case. The last time I reformatted my Mac OS X is when it's Leopard. Before that, I always love to start from fresh each time Apple release a new OS. After Leopard, I upgraded to Snow Leopard, Lion, and now Mountain Lion. These are 3 major OS upgrade mind you, try doing it in Linux, I guarantee you break something. If you are lucky, you still can boot into single user, or maybe just the graphic drive screw up. If you are unlucky, you reinstall everything. It's only recently that a couple of distribution turn to rolling distribution.

If you are like me, using my Mac for work and home, the last thing you want is to reinstall your OS just because of an upgrade. And which is the backup and recovery solution that is as seamless as Time Machine ? One phrase commonly found in unix environment, "Don't fix it if it ain't broken". The way I read this statement, if it's production environment, you be caution and don't anyhow change the environment alas you break your rice bowl. For any other purposes, you don't change because you are just asking for trouble. lolx. Linux is robust when it's working fine when you tested everything and they gel properly. If not, when something broke list API changes between the libraries or utilities, it's so hard to detect them. The fact that it is contributed by the public community can sometimes be quite a hazard, so when we choose which utilities to work, we are often quite careful if it's an enterprise solution.

One of the most common with Linux system on laptop is X just don't work properly for some laptops when going video output. It's a common thing nowadays when you are going for presentation. Getting Nvidia and ATI to open source their driver is like asking them to die. Linus have so much issue with Nvidia folks where he basically give them a middle finger, which you can read from this article at http://www.techspot.com/news/49025-...ves-them-the-middle-finger-during-speech.html

Graphical portion is something Linux fall short in, the X server is basically a wrong model for physical desktop. it makes all the sense as a server-client network model in virtual desktop concept, but it bloat the system a lot and create unnecessary latency when both server and client exist in the same system. Microsoft Windows UI is very responsive, much faster in my opinion than even Mac OS X due to the kind of tight integration it has. It's so tight that for Windows Server Core, you still need a GUI! They basically can't strip away into terminal mode unless you revamp the whole Win32 API. Without optimistic support from graphical cards company like Nvidia and ATI and Intel guilty of it too(silly outsource of GMA500 chipset to PowerVR), you would find much future on the graphical aspect of Linux, just too draggy from the business perspective.

So you see why I have chosen Mac. Apple basically control the whole stack from physical hardware to software and even the ecosystem. Sometimes we must agree, too much cooks spoilt the broth. Yes Apple offer lack of flexibility in some cases, but it's always a give a take.

Choose Apple Mac if you want a complete ecosystem, choose Linux flexibility and you find holes all over the place, stick with Microsoft Windows and you get yourself Fxxk by their messy integration between classic Windows Win32 and RT.
 
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Death4ngel

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Other than the beautifully designed machine, Linux too, is unix derived, has a unix terminal, has package manager, and VM.

Not experienced enough to comment on the upgrading, and on X. But the upgrading should be distro specified?

Not sure what u mean by "holes all over the place", like things are not working? things are missing?

I guess I just like Linux for the flexibility, where I can choose to install things minimally. Not like some OSes that installs everything for me, and I don't even use all of them. And when I needed something, the OS doesn't have it. =.=
 

davidktw

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Other than the beautifully designed machine, Linux too, is unix derived, has a unix terminal, has package manager, and VM.

Not experienced enough to comment on the upgrading, and on X. But the upgrading should be distro specified?

Not sure what u mean by "holes all over the place", like things are not working? things are missing?

I guess I just like Linux for the flexibility, where I can choose to install things minimally. Not like some OSes that installs everything for me, and I don't even use all of them. And when I needed something, the OS doesn't have it. =.=

Linux has many virtualization technologies, however, other than VMWare Workstation or Oracle VirtualBox, I don't think you can find better ones around that are suitable for desktop experience. I think we need to straighten something here. I'm not really comparing just a matter of OS. The main thing here is a mobile laptop. Apple Mac OS X officially only run on its own hardware. Microsoft Windows runs on various hardware vendors machine, Linux works "nicely" on some selected hardware only due to lack of drivers or lack of support in some areas.

Some Microsoft Windows vendors like Samsung, Toshiba, ASUS, and Sony do make some models of sleek looking machines and very comparable to Apple in their own ways, but what they eventually lack in is a complete ecosystem where only Apple can offer at the moment, due to their business concept of controlling the almost full manufacturing stack from software to hardware.

Linux on the other hard have very little support from vendors. Recent years are a lot better than 10 years ago, but still pale when compare to Mac OS X and Windows. From my years of using Linux, I find Linux a very suitable OS for businesses running in servers, due to its robustness, reliability, cost effectiveness, large public community support and also encouraging support from the Enterprise arena.

However, you must understand that the way how a Linux system is handled and maintained in an Enterprising manner is very different from the usage pattern of desktop. First and foremost, Linux on servers normally are headless and doesn't require desktop experience, next is Enterprises can afford to have extensive backup, staging environments, testing environments and so forth to ensure any upgrade are properly tested before applied into the production environments. On top of that, Enterprises tackle risk management with high available configurations, having everything almost in pair or with multiple redundancies. Just this alone, we don't use Linux the same manner as a desktop user would. We can afford to upgrade in reliable manner that allow settling period to test out issues and iron out bugs before they are used in critical mission businesses.

For a typical desktop consumer, you wouldn't have such luxury. You either break your laptop during upgrade and changes or you are lucky and you have a working machine. It's mostly not possible to roll back without already harm caused to your working environment.

I come from a unix environment working with numerous unix systems and daily I work with at least one. Linux is so common in my work and hobby that I use it like my primary platform for creativity, but I still don't find it a suitable OS for desktop experience, at least not the kind of seamless and stability that I'm looking for. I probably find them more in Windows than in Linux.

I'm sure you are no stranger to the large number of desktop Linux distributions spawning in recent years. I also have one of my sony viao p laptop running Linux Mint, and the reason I am using it is because it sucks running Windows and can't run Mac OS X either. Linux is the next best choice for me to bring around during tour, making it a router on the go.

Upgrading while is distro specific mainly converge into one of these few package managers, apt-get, yum, pacman, yast2. But what is at stake here is not which distro and which package manager, it's the inherent nature of public contribution to the repository. Even ubuntu breaks when I attempt to perform a distro upgrade from one major version to another. So I'm not going to stand by Linux making claims that they are suitable for a holistic desktop experience. I simply don't see it working as claimed.

Linux has holes all over, those holes are gaps in expectation and need to be addresses at times. While I claimed that integration is highly customizable and flexible, there are times they just don't work as expected and require creativity to patch up the gaps.

I believe more talk on what Linux lacks in is pointless until you decided to use Mac OS X. You will start to see where the differences are compared to a system that is built from enterprising purpose and the other more for consumer. If you are not taking the step into the new Mac OS X world, you wouldn't know what you are missing. The choice is really yours. If you are truly whom you claim to be a CS student, the first and foremost criteria as a computer scientist is don't be afraid to try. Don't be afraid to try out new things validate claims mentioned by others.
 

Death4ngel

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I think ur holistic desktop experience might be somewhat more than a normal user. To me, I can surf net, code, office suites. i.e., do my sch work. I'm quite happy alr, for now.

Trying out needs $$$ leh. :s13:
 

davidktw

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I think ur holistic desktop experience might be somewhat more than a normal user. To me, I can surf net, code, office suites. i.e., do my sch work. I'm quite happy alr, for now.

Trying out needs $$$ leh. :s13:

If you are like me, using my MBP day in day out between office/work and home/hobby, and you want a complete ecosystem without sacrificing the flexibility in development, you would want to try out Mac OS X.

It's is so common nowadays I see software developers making presentation, doing their work in open seminars in Singapore or over the internet videos, all using Mac OS X. There must be some truth to what I have mentioned.

Of course, I fully agree, it's not a cheap purchase if you want to go with Apple. Lets just say, you have a high chance to be a happy person using one. But to call Apple premium nowadays is also kinda overstatement, their prices is pretty competitive if you know how to appreciate the kind of product they are delivering to you.

No product is perfect, but given what I have come across, I really don't find any other product can come close to what Apple has offered at the moment. It's all about the holistic experience, I must say. I'm not a 10 years Apple user because it's just a matter of beauty. If it don't make my life easier, and my work easier, I change. I have changed from Windows to Linux to Mac, I can always change to something else or back to older but better ways if need to be. But to date, I can't find myself going anywhere else because there is nothing else that offer better experience.

Talking about productivity and office suite, you can't find better ones in Microsoft Windows. Openoffice crap! It break my documents, especially on the bullets and list. It just doesn't gel with the kind of seamless experience I'm expecting from Microsoft office. Not even Mac Office. It's just not the same :) That's why for most of my actual work, if I need to ensure total interoperability with real enterprise counterparts, I start my parallels with Windows 7 and Office 2013(latest). I only using the Mac Office for viewing and minor editing. The fact I uses a good number of EMF vector graphics and OLE objects in my documents makes Microsoft Windows the perfect office for office productivity. So you see, why I have chosen Mac. Using Mac OS X, I integration across Windows, Linux easily. Mac works like a charm as a command post, others are just getting work done in areas they excel in :p

I'm not stopping you from doing what you are doing now, I'm just recommending you try something different and in my opinion better, based on my first hand experience and similar career and educational track as you. I was a NUS CS student too, and my first Mac experience is Mac OS X 10.0 on a white Macbook.
 

10e5x@1610

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Hi gurus,

May i asked will NUS have laptops fair for new students...when will that be and should i buy from there?
 

mgx-alander

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got, during the day when u collect ur matric card there will be laptop fairs

but i think bo hua 1.. i compare the price and end up buying from IT Fair instead, its cheaper

unless u gian the free software like adobe which can be ahem
 

10e5x@1610

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got, during the day when u collect ur matric card there will be laptop fairs

but i think bo hua 1.. i compare the price and end up buying from IT Fair instead, its cheaper

unless u gian the free software like adobe which can be ahem

ahem meaning worth it or not? ya i waiting for the coming IT fair. Should be around june
 
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