Going To Try US-T Bills

[reddevil0728]

Ok, I take it that you’re confident there are no additional fees besides the commission.

I’d still need to wait till the US markets to open to trade.

So, in the meantime, I hope someone who has bought T-bills would kindly confirm that this is the case.

Thanks, reddevil0728.

trying to breakdown what you are asking here.

You are asking people who has bought to confirm.

What if someone confirmed but yet it turned out not to be the case for you. Will you have recourse?

Hence I am telling you, you will still need to validate for yourself with paper account to see it for yourself.

Confirmation here hold no water, and you still bear full responsibility for whatever you do.

 

[Kayeesha]

trying to breakdown what you are asking here.

You are asking people who has bought to confirm.

What if someone confirmed but yet it turned out not to be the case for you. Will you have recourse?

Hence I am telling you, you will still need to validate for yourself with paper account to see it for yourself.

Confirmation here hold no water, and you still bear full responsibility for whatever you do.

I totally understand that I am still fully responsible for whatever I do.

I still hope someone who has performed the trade is kind enough to confirm.

Thanks, as always reddevil0728.

 

[reddevil0728]

I totally understand that I am still fully responsible for whatever I do.

However, it doesn’t mean asking for confirmation or help from those who have performed it is wrong, is it?

Didn’t say is wrong.

I’m sharing the experience but I can’t and wouldn’t be able to confirm if it applies to you.

Hence, I’m saying that’s what’s the experience show, but you can see it for yourself with paper.

 

[Kayeesha]

Didn’t say is wrong.

I’m sharing the experience but I can’t and wouldn’t be able to confirm if it applies to you.

Hence, I’m saying that’s what’s the experience show, but you can see it for yourself with paper.

Ok but I’m also a bit sceptical about these paper trades …

 

[reddevil0728]

Ok but I’m also a bit sceptical about these paper trades …

Why so?

 

[Kayeesha]

Why so?

Maybe some parts of the algorithm for paper trades are not exactly the same as those for live trades?

 

[reddevil0728]

Maybe some parts of the algorithm for paper trades are not exactly the same as those for live trades?

then technically how you configured your account might be different from others. so others experience may also not apply.

So the only way you can be sure is for you to test it out yourself regardless

 

[narutos]

I have some questions about purchasing via IBKR which I hope someone can help me with.

Besides, the min $5 commission, I note there are also the bond desk fees of $0 or $2.50 per trade depending on whether the order is executed immediately or not. Does this mean that in order to avoid paying any additional charges apart from the $5 commission, I have to enter a price that is at least equal to the ask price?

But what if the market moves before my order reaches the exchange?

Thanks in advance.

I've bought some US corporate bonds through IBKR recently. You need to pay Bond Desk fee if you add liquidity, meaning you enter a price that is lower than the ask price, so your order is queuing. If you enter a price that is same as the ask price, your order will be executed immediately, and then no need to pay any Bond Desk fee.

Bond market bid/ask price won't move fast like equity, I never encounter the case where my order at ask price doesn't get matched. In case you're unlucky, then your order will just queuing there. You can cancel/amend the queuing order if you wish later on.

Tbill Bond Desk fee is shown in table below (copy from IBKR website)

Description	Add Liquidity	Remove Liquidity
T-bills​	USD 2.50 per trade​	USD 0 per trade​

 

[reddevil0728]

I've bought some US corporate bonds through IBKR recently. You need to pay Bond Desk fee if you add liquidity, meaning you enter a price that is lower than the ask price, so your order is queuing. If you enter a price that is same as the ask price, your order will be executed immediately, and then no need to pay any Bond Desk fee.

Bond market bid/ask price won't move fast like equity, I never encounter the case where my order at ask price doesn't get matched. In case you're unlucky, then your order will just queuing there. You can cancel/amend the queuing order if you wish later on.

Tbill Bond Desk fee is shown in table below (copy from IBKR website)

Description	Add Liquidity	Remove Liquidity
T-bills​	USD 2.50 per trade​	USD 0 per trade​

treasuries and corp bonds diff thing though

 

[Kayeesha]

I've bought some US corporate bonds through IBKR recently. You need to pay Bond Desk fee if you add liquidity, meaning you enter a price that is lower than the ask price, so your order is queuing. If you enter a price that is same as the ask price, your order will be executed immediately, and then no need to pay any Bond Desk fee.

Bond market bid/ask price won't move fast like equity, I never encounter the case where my order at ask price doesn't get matched. In case you're unlucky, then your order will just queuing there. You can cancel/amend the queuing order if you wish later on.

Tbill Bond Desk fee is shown in table below (copy from IBKR website)

Description	Add Liquidity	Remove Liquidity
T-bills​	USD 2.50 per trade​	USD 0 per trade​

Thank you, Narutos.

That was what I thought about the application of the fee by the Bond Desk. However, the reply from the customer service officer was the opposite. I was told if I entered a price equal to the offer, I will be removing liquidity and that will definitely incur a fee. Now I recall seeing an email from IBKR about split spread orders adding liquidity which may earn exchange rebates. But I think that is a completely different matter.

I guess the only way is to test and see what the fees are and to do this via a paper trade. Unfortunately, I’d need to download the TWS to be able to see the live data for paper trades. It seems the portal does not support this. I’ll need to find some time to learn how to use the TWS now.

 

[reddevil0728]

Thank you, Narutos.

That was what I thought about the application of the fee by the Bond Desk. However, the reply from the customer service officer was the opposite. I was told if I entered a price equal to the offer, I will be removing liquidity and that will definitely incur a fee. Now I recall seeing an email from IBKR about split spread orders adding liquidity which may earn exchange rebates. But I think that is a completely different matter.

I guess the only way is to test and see what the fees are and to do this via a paper trade. Unfortunately, I’d need to download the TWS to be able to see the live data for paper trades. It seems the portal does not support this. I’ll need to find some time to learn how to use the TWS now.

How about just use mobile app?

 

[narutos]

Thank you, Narutos.

That was what I thought about the application of the fee by the Bond Desk. However, the reply from the customer service officer was the opposite. I was told if I entered a price equal to the offer, I will be removing liquidity and that will definitely incur a fee. Now I recall seeing an email from IBKR about split spread orders adding liquidity which may earn exchange rebates. But I think that is a completely different matter.

I guess the only way is to test and see what the fees are and to do this via a paper trade. Unfortunately, I’d need to download the TWS to be able to see the live data for paper trades. It seems the portal does not support this. I’ll need to find some time to learn how to use the TWS now.

It depends on the Exchange. IBKR help page list out 5 different exchanges where a bond trade can be executed. Only the NYSE Bonds exchange charge fee for removing liquidity, but NYSE bonds doesn't offer Tbill trading.

For my corporate bond buys, I've tried out both adding & removing liquidity and the Bond Desk fees matched what is stated in the IBKR help page.

United States - External Fees​

External fees are passed through at cost.

BondDesk
IBKRATS
MuniCenter
NYSE Bonds
VALUBOND

 

[milkfish]

I've traded quite lots ot TBills, putting limits always between bid and offer. They tend to get executed immediately and I've never been charged 2.5$ fee (only the 5$ commission).

 

[Kayeesha]

I've traded quite lots ot TBills, putting limits always between bid and offer. They tend to get executed immediately and I've never been charged 2.5$ fee (only the 5$ commission).

Hi Milkfish, many thanks for your reply and great to hear that you trade a lot of TBills.

When would you recommend will be the best time (Singapore time) to perform these T-bills trade?

Can I safely assume the bid ask prices I see are reasonably live?

Do you use the TWS and would you recommend using that rather than the portal?

Thanks.

 

[reddevil0728]

Hi Milkfish, many thanks for your reply and great to hear that you trade a lot of TBills.

When would you recommend will be the best time (Singapore time) to perform these T-bills trade?

Can I safely assume the bid ask prices I see are reasonably live?

Do you use the TWS and would you recommend using that rather than the portal?

Thanks.

TWS or mobile app seems to be better than portal.

 

[milkfish]

Hi Milkfish, many thanks for your reply and great to hear that you trade a lot of TBills.

When would you recommend will be the best time (Singapore time) to perform these T-bills trade?

Can I safely assume the bid ask prices I see are reasonably live?

Do you use the TWS and would you recommend using that rather than the portal?

Thanks.

I use TWS. Do not trade when the bond market is closed, generally this means only US trading hours. Bid ask prices are kind of realtime, as realtime bond pricing is free on IBKR (they don't move that much either intraday). They're kind of just an indication though, prices executed will not equal the bid and offer, but always somewhere in between.

I've not tried setting limit order a bit more aggresively though, since the spread is quite small, and not worth my time waiting hours for 5-10$ difference when trading 100K+ amounts.

 

[Kayeesha]

I use TWS. Do not trade when the bond market is closed, generally this means only US trading hours. Bid ask prices are kind of realtime, as realtime bond pricing is free on IBKR (they don't move that much either intraday). They're kind of just an indication though, prices executed will not equal the bid and offer, but always somewhere in between.

I've not tried setting limit order a bit more aggresively though, since the spread is quite small, and not worth my time waiting hours for 5-10$ difference when trading 100K+ amounts.

Many thanks, Milkfish.

I thought if you always put limits between bid and offer, the executed price will not equal the bid and offer?

Does setting an aggressive limit order mean placing a limit price closer to the bid?

Regarding the TWS software, which one do you recommend I download? I see 3 versions, latest, ? and beta.

Thanks.

 

[reddevil0728]

Many thanks, Milkfish.

I thought if you always put limits between bid and offer, the executed price will not equal the bid and offer?

Does setting an aggressive limit order mean placing a limit price closer to the bid?

Regarding the TWS software, which one do you recommend I download? I see 3 versions, latest, ? and beta.

Thanks.

depends on what you want.

normal is most stable supposedly

latest will get the latest updates but may not be as stable.

beta is as the name suggest

 

[Kayeesha]

depends on what you want.

normal is most stable supposedly

latest will get the latest updates but may not be as stable.

beta is as the name suggest

Oh so the one called “TWS” is the normal version. I didn’t know that

 

[milkfish]

Many thanks, Milkfish.

I thought if you always put limits between bid and offer, the executed price will not equal the bid and offer?

Does setting an aggressive limit order mean placing a limit price closer to the bid?

Regarding the TWS software, which one do you recommend I download? I see 3 versions, latest, ? and beta.

Thanks.

E.g.

For a buy order.

Bid price 98.3. Ask price 98.5

If I do buy limit 98.5, I'll get something like 98.45. If I do buy limit 98.3, it might get executed but usually will take a while.

Regarding TWS version, I don't think it makes any difference (unless you use advanced features e.g. API). I personally use latest.