has anyone switched to become a full-time trader and become rich ...

[VEF888]

Definitely not easy

it’s a lot on psychology

I’ve been attempting on trading since last year. So far not really profitable yet

my 2 biggest issues I’ve identified so far

1) psychology. I’m too afraid to take losses. Hence sometimes I tend to close out my positions or tighten stop loss or shift stop loss to breakeven too early, hence there were many times after I closed my positions or after I shift stop loss to breakeven, price will fly or plunge in my directions. ie my analysis is correct but I didn’t manage to profit from the trade. A good trader cannot be just a good analyst. It’s no use if psychology and execution suck. This happened to both my forex day trades and stocks options swing trades btw. I’ve closed out my options trades way before expiry at a loss, but in the end it was actually profitable had I not closed them.

2) my stop loss placement. I get stop hunted too many times. Shifted sl to be too early for fear of taking losses (again linked to the first point on emotions and psychology). Price would often hit my stop loss then move v quickly in my direction.

as a result, my wins could barely cover my losses even though my losses are also small. Hence my p&l is always either small profits or small losses, might as well don’t trade cuz waste time right?

so I figured I need to find a way to overcome my 2 issues. Then I might be profitable in the long run

have you read this book? It will help.

https://www.amazon.com/Trading-Zone-Confidence-Discipline-Attitude/dp/0735201447


one of the key takeaway: Treating each trade like a coin toss which underscores the probabilistic nature of trading, emphasizing risk management, consistency, emotional detachment, and a focus on long-term success. Similar to the randomness of a coin flip, ultimately individual trade outcomes are uncertain, making it essential for traders to focus on controlling risk, their edge rather than predicting outcomes.

That's why it's important to trade small and trade often.

Trading small and frequently is crucial because it helps mitigate the fear of losses. By only risking a small amount per trade, take this to the extreme, imagine just 5 cents every trade, traders can maintain control and focus on other important aspects of trading, like finding optimal entry points. Controlled and expected losses are a natural part of trading, and by embracing this mindset, traders can reduce emotional attachment to individual trades and concentrate on refining their strategies for long-term success

Of course, this is a lot of work; there's no such thing as passive income in trading. Each trade represents a constant struggle against one's emotions and the temptations of the market.

The conspiracy theory about stop losses being monitored and targeted holds some truth, though not necessarily at the individual trader level. Instead, larger market participants have access to extensive trade flow data and they utilize psychological manipulation in their trading strategies. They capitalize on understanding the price ranges that trigger panic or induce retail traders to either sell off or jump into the market, thereby influencing market movements to their advantage.

And it is the trader's job to gain knowledge of how these price ranges play out in your system to participate effectively bah.

 

[wongminmin]

have you read this book? It will help.

https://www.amazon.com/Trading-Zone-Confidence-Discipline-Attitude/dp/0735201447


one of the key takeaway: Treating each trade like a coin toss which underscores the probabilistic nature of trading, emphasizing risk management, consistency, emotional detachment, and a focus on long-term success. Similar to the randomness of a coin flip, ultimately individual trade outcomes are uncertain, making it essential for traders to focus on controlling risk rather than predicting outcomes

That's why it's important to trade small and trade often.

Trading small and frequently is crucial because it helps mitigate the fear of losses. By only risking a small amount per trade, take this to the extreme, imagine just 5 cents every trade, traders can maintain control and focus on other important aspects of trading, like finding optimal entry points. Controlled and expected losses are a natural part of trading, and by embracing this mindset, traders can reduce emotional attachment to individual trades and concentrate on refining their strategies for long-term success

Of course, this is a lot of work; there's no such thing as passive income in trading. Each trade represents a constant struggle against one's emotions and the temptations of the market bah

The conspiracy theory about stop losses being monitored and targeted holds some truth, though not necessarily at the individual trader level. Instead, larger market participants have access to extensive trade flow data and may utilize psychological manipulation in their trading strategies. They capitalize on understanding the price ranges that trigger panic or induce retail traders to either sell off or jump into the market, thereby influencing market movements to their advantage.

And it is the trader's job to gain knowledge of how these price ranges play out in your system to participate effectively bah.

i ask the trader this question.... he cant answer me, went silent

Trade 10 , earn 3k
Trade 1 with confidence, earn 3k

Every trade u go in, u're already taking the risk..... so isn't having multiple of trade, u're exposing more to risks?
of course trading multiple with small amounts do work for some people.... but is it worth the time and risks?

is not i don't want to read books, but i find the books very fake. i rather listen those people with hand-on experience.

i couldn't digest this.

 

[Sforthought]

Sometimes u better off not reading too much and ownswlf trial and error.

U get less misleaded and may find the path sooner. Less detour

 

[arsenalfc85]

have you read this book? It will help.

https://www.amazon.com/Trading-Zone-Confidence-Discipline-Attitude/dp/0735201447


one of the key takeaway: Treating each trade like a coin toss which underscores the probabilistic nature of trading, emphasizing risk management, consistency, emotional detachment, and a focus on long-term success. Similar to the randomness of a coin flip, ultimately individual trade outcomes are uncertain, making it essential for traders to focus on controlling risk, their edge rather than predicting outcomes.

That's why it's important to trade small and trade often.

Trading small and frequently is crucial because it helps mitigate the fear of losses. By only risking a small amount per trade, take this to the extreme, imagine just 5 cents every trade, traders can maintain control and focus on other important aspects of trading, like finding optimal entry points. Controlled and expected losses are a natural part of trading, and by embracing this mindset, traders can reduce emotional attachment to individual trades and concentrate on refining their strategies for long-term success

Of course, this is a lot of work; there's no such thing as passive income in trading. Each trade represents a constant struggle against one's emotions and the temptations of the market.

The conspiracy theory about stop losses being monitored and targeted holds some truth, though not necessarily at the individual trader level. Instead, larger market participants have access to extensive trade flow data and they utilize psychological manipulation in their trading strategies. They capitalize on understanding the price ranges that trigger panic or induce retail traders to either sell off or jump into the market, thereby influencing market movements to their advantage.

And it is the trader's job to gain knowledge of how these price ranges play out in your system to participate effectively bah.

i'm already reading it now. recommended by another edmwer.

but yet to internalise the content. I guess it takes time ba.

Trading is not some magic where read a book one time, and then learn some TA, then tadah few months later become some pro trader who's consistently profitable.

Guess it might take a few years for me to become consistent n also to reach the stage of no emotions in trading

 

[arsenalfc85]

i find that somehow when you put s SL, the trade sometimes move towards the SL and after it hits your SL, it goes in the opposite direction almost immediately.

happens to me super often.

I guess sometimes its the sl placement issue. Its one of my weakness. Sometimes just have to place sl further.

 

[stanlawj]

i ask the trader this question.... he cant answer me, went silent

Trade 10 , earn 3k
Trade 1 with confidence, earn 3k

Every trade u go in, u're already taking the risk..... so isn't having multiple of trade, u're exposing more to risks?
of course trading multiple with small amounts do work for some people.... but is it worth the time and risks?

is not i don't want to read books, but i find the books very fake. i rather listen those people with hand-on experience.

i couldn't digest this.

i don't understand your question.

 

[stanlawj]

That's why it's important to trade small and trade often.

It's also called: Practice makes perfect.
(Practice only the proper things, not blindly)

Trade small to stay in the game and practice long enough to transition to be successful, not kill yourself within the first few years.

 

[Sforthought]

i ask the trader this question.... he cant answer me, went silent

Trade 10 , earn 3k
Trade 1 with confidence, earn 3k

Every trade u go in, u're already taking the risk..... so isn't having multiple of trade, u're exposing more to risks?
of course trading multiple with small amounts do work for some people.... but is it worth the time and risks?

is not i don't want to read books, but i find the books very fake. i rather listen those people with hand-on experience.

i couldn't digest this.

1. He's not confident of 1 trade win 1k. Haven master yet
2. He's gambling with 10 tries instead of one big one. Haven master yet.

 

[stanlawj]

i'm already reading it now. recommended by another edmwer.

but yet to internalise the content. I guess it takes time ba.

Trading is not some magic where read a book one time, and then learn some TA, then tadah few months later become some pro trader who's consistently profitable.

Guess it might take a few years for me to become consistent n also to reach the stage of no emotions in trading

I think you have no trading edge.
Should start with finding out how to make money from financial markets.

 

[Sutebenu]

Noticed on a number of occassions the company's earnings beat but mgmt chut negative guidance and the shares will tank.

What's everyone's take on this?

 

[stanlawj]

Noticed on a number of occassions the company's earnings beat but mgmt chut negative guidance and the shares will tank.

What's everyone's take on this?

Earnings is reporting the past company trend. Guidance is reporting what is likely to be the future company trend.

If future =/= past, then the price will change by big amount.
If future = past trend as expected, the price doesn't change much.

Nowadays, with high-tech data collection everywhere and real-time economic data, investors and traders (who make money) are predicting earnings months in advance and are well-positioned BEFORE the earnings day.

Also true for govt economic stats.

There are also traders who don't forecast anything, and they also make money. Obviously, these ppl cannot be doing the same things as those who forecast (who are already positioned in the market).

 

[arsenalfc85]

I think you have no trading edge.
Should start with finding out how to make money from financial markets.

i actually do feel i have a trading edge.

Its just my execution that sucks. And its my emotions indirectly leading to bad execution .

Most of the times my sl gets hit is not my original sl for my setup. So why my sl is at a different level then?

1) Fear of entry. Most of the time is cuz of previous trade being a loss. The next trade i will tend to hesitate even though the setup is there, but i would not enter n hesitate. And only after price moved more in my direction, then i will suddenly fomo n enter. But cuz i entered late, n if i place my sl at the original sl that i envisioned, my RR would suck, i have to reduce my position size OR i enter same position size but sl must be closer to current price. Most of the time i choose to enter same position size but sl closer to current price (as i do not want to recalculate my position size). What happens v frequently is, price will return to hit my sl first then continue running.

2) Fear of taking losses. Hence i would tend to take profits fast and shift stop loss to breakeven rather quickly. But because my entry could be late (see point number 1), if i shift sl to breakeven, that level could be hit quite easily if price retraces.

So ultimately my biggest problem is my psychology (emotions) which led to my entries not being th emost optimal, which subsequently leads to my sl placement causing me to get taken out easily. Which leads to small losses but also small profits. So maybe end of the week or end of the month. My aacount size either down a bit or up a bit or no change.

 

[arsenalfc85]

Noticed on a number of occassions the company's earnings beat but mgmt chut negative guidance and the shares will tank.

What's everyone's take on this?

don't trade earnings lor.

or if u got balls, can do a long strangle sort of trade.

 

[wongminmin]

i don't understand your question.

every entry u go in (be it 1 or 10), u're taking the risk.... it can go up or down.
if 1 is confidence with their analysis, why not lump everything to 1 trade?
In this case, minimize the risk taken from 10 to 1. else doing 10 is more like gambling....

i read those pro trader.... they don't enter every trade... they monitor the market and wait for the moment of the day.... With 99.9% confidence, they lump everything into that entry.

just take for example,
silver is 26.... the lowest of week/month.
So by buying 26... the possibility go up is 80%

silver is 27.... the lowest of the day.
so by buying 27... the possibility go up is 70%

silver is 28... the highest of the month.
so by buying 28... the possibility go up is 50%

But of course, if 1 want to lump everything and minimize the risks while earning enough, they need to have big capital.

 

[arsenalfc85]

I think you have no trading edge.
Should start with finding out how to make money from financial markets.

eg.

I took 2 losses previous day. example la.

Next day i see a setup.

Long position say $100, stop loss $95. I hesitated, did not place my buy order. Price moves to $105 already, then i enter. If i place sl at $95, my sl would get wider than i planned for, making my rr suck cuz i have to reduce my position size. So i choose to enter tat $105, sl at $100, sticking to my same $5 sl. Bad mistake i know.

Scenario 1: price will maybe pullback from $105 (my entry) to $102, near to my sl at $100. I get scared n close the position at a small loss. Price then moves up to $110, then $120 etc. i end up with small loss

Scenario 2: price continues to move from $105 to $110. I'm scared to take another loss n wanna lock in profits. So i take partials at $110 and shift sl to breakeven ie from $100 to $105. Price retraces back to $105, stop me out at breakeven, and then moves back to $115, $120, $130 etc. I only end up with small profits

Net net: Small profits or small losses at end of the month. All the trouble for nothing.

I've come to the conclusion its my emotions preventing me from being profitable. My analysis are correct most of the time, but i don't execute according to plan. I just need to overcome this.

 

[stanlawj]

every entry u go in (be it 1 or 10), u're taking the risk.... it can go up or down.
if 1 is confidence with their analysis, why not lump everything to 1 trade?
In this case, minimize the risk taken from 10 to 1. else doing 10 is more like gambling....

i read those pro trader.... they don't enter every trade... they monitor the market and wait for the moment of the day.... With 99.9% confidence, they lump everything into that entry.

just take for example,
silver is 26.... the lowest of week/month.
So by buying 26... the possibility go up is 80%

silver is 27.... the lowest of the day.
so by buying 27... the possibility go up is 70%

silver is 28... the highest of the month.
so by buying 28... the possibility go up is 50%

But of course, if 1 want to lump everything and minimize the risks while earning enough, they need to have big capital.

I think your question is missing this: how much $$$ will you lose if you are wrong?
That's the reason why for every trade idea, one can only bet certain amount of money. Cannot just whack all your net worth on that idea, because that's what happened to Master Leong with his Alibaba, or Steven Lim with his Singpost.

They have done a great service for us by showing how easy to lose big money. Don't laugh at them, because everyone including myself, have done something like this in the past.

Here's how I would execute: trade small, earn small profits.
Use all those profits, to go for the monster trade with highest conviction. Thus I'm not risking my net worth.

If that monster trade kaput,... back to square one, still have my net worth.

 

[arsenalfc85]

I think your question is missing this: how much $$$ will you lose if you are wrong?
That's the reason why for every trade idea, one can only bet certain amount of money. Cannot just whack all your net worth on that idea, because that's what happened to Master Leong with his Alibaba, or Steven Lim with his Singpost.

They have done a great service for us by showing how easy to lose big money. Don't laugh at them, because everyone including myself, and have done something like this in the past.

i think what the edmwer wongminmin means is

Instead of taking 10 trades (maybe B+ setup) and risking 1% per trade. Maybe a rr of 1:2 and then win 5 lose 5, end up profit 5%

Why not just take 1 trade (A+ setup) and risk 10% for that one trade. Maybe a rr of 1:2 and if this one wins (due to high confidence), profits is 20%

But the A+ setup trade risking 10% can still be risky. Cuz there's no guarantee win no matter how confident the trader is. As every outcome is random. And one trade down 10% is quite heavy imo.

 

[EdenHazard]

I think your question is missing this: how much $$$ will you lose if you are wrong?
That's the reason why for every trade idea, one can only bet certain amount of money. Cannot just whack all your net worth on that idea, because that's what happened to Master Leong with his Alibaba, or Steven Lim with his Singpost.

They have done a great service for us by showing how easy to lose big money. Don't laugh at them, because everyone including myself, and have done something like this in the past.

Here's how I would execute: trade small, earn small profits.
Use all those profits, to go for the monster trade with highest conviction. Thus I'm not risking my net worth.

There are many schools of thought - one is that diversification is insurance for the ignorant. If one does enough research and is cock sure of a certain stock, why not go all in and maximise gains?

 

[stanlawj]

i think what the edmwer wongminmin means is

Instead of taking 10 trades (maybe B+ setup) and risking 1% per trade.

Why not just take 1 trade (A+ setup) and risk 10% for that one trade.

But the A+ setup trade risking 10% can still be risky. Cuz there's no guarantee win no matter how confident the trader is. As every outcome is random. And one trade down 10% is quite heavy imo.

Yes... risking 10% means if you are wrong and down -10% after that, you'll have to spend A LOT MORE TIME and EFFORT trying to recover from 90% to 100% (100/90 = 11%), versus trying to recover from 99% to 100%.

 

[wongminmin]

I think your question is missing this: how much $$$ will you lose if you are wrong?
That's the reason why for every trade idea, one can only bet certain amount of money. Cannot just whack all your net worth on that idea, because that's what happened to Master Leong with his Alibaba, or Steven Lim with his Singpost.

i understand what u're saying.....
if we are aiming to become trader, shouldn't we be doing that? not like steven lim, buy at the highest point and during conflict. lol dunnoe who master leong. will go and find out.

like this trader?