Having Multiple Router on a Home Network

[fleas1]

Hi,

I believe many home will require additional routers to either increase their WIFI range or to extend to another computer...etc

This guide is based on my experience and should able to help you give a basic understanding and guide line to help you setup.



A Typical Fibre Connection:

TP ---> ONT ---> ISP Router ---> Your Devices/pc/tv/phone..etc

TP = is the wall point on which opennet has installed
ONT = Optical Network Terminal; to Translate light into electrical for RJ45/Ethernet LAN Cable
ISP Router = is the router or modem given free/bundle with your plan



A Typical Broadband Connection:

TP ----> ISP Modem/Router ---> your devices/pc/tv/phone...etc

TP = Point from the wall


Ok, Now before you buy, you must understand what type of device will suit your need.

These are the 3 main devices you will need to extend your network:

1. Unmanaged Switch (Think of it as adding additional ports when your router ports are all used up)

2. Access Point (Usually used for just increasing WIFI coverage)

3. Router (Switch + Access Point)

Unmanaged Switches are plug in and play, meaning all you have to do is just plug in the network cable and your done.

Some Access Point connect via wirelessly so you have to configure it before you can use. eg: go to the Access Point web interface, Find and connect to your wireless. Then setup your Wireless. Please do not use the same channel as your current router.

Note: Some Router are able to switch into an Access Point via button or in web interface settings. They are also plug in and play if you connect via wired.


Setting up Additional Router for your Network:
Some of you may have bought a router or have an extra one to use. Router are a bit more tricky in setting up.


1): Set a static IP For your Router so it doesn't change when the power is out or when you reset either routers.

First, enter your Main router web interface(usually 192.168.1.1 or could be 192.168.1.254[singtel] or possibly 192.168.0.1). Then find a menu to reserve IP.
It's usually near DHCP or LAN section on most routers.

If my main router is 192.168.1.1 then I would usually give my secondary router 192.168.1.2

note: only the last octet(xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx --> xxx are octets) due to subnet mask.


2): Turn off DHCP on your secondary router: this is to prevent IP Conflict on your network.


3): Setting up wireless

Sometimes its better to have a different name(SSID) from your current WIFI as it helps identify which gives better signal or to troubleshoot if there's any technical problems.

Example: Main router SSID: Hamster1, Channel: 3. Secondary router SSID: Hamster2, Channel: 8.



However, some prefer a cleaner and single SSID which is still possible but requires you to set a static channel(1-11) otherwise it will cause connection problems. Security type(eg:WPA2, AES, TKIP...etc), SSID Name must be the same.


Example: Main router SSID: Hamster, Channel: 3. Secondary router SSID Hamster, Channel: 8.


If there's any questions you would like to ask please post below and i'll try to help

 

[Rocketprince]

I just recently upgrade my internet from 10mbps to the 200mb fibre plan (Both Singtel) and they will be fixing it in 2 weeks time. I live in a 3 floor house and currently the modem and router is in my room which is the 3rd level. I use direct wired connection from the router to my com. Wifi coverage on the the 3rd floor is strong , 2nd floor is around 3 bars but the 1st floor is just 1 bar. The thing is the fibre point is at the living room (1st floor) and now the modem and router will be shifted there as well. I play games and i cant stand having low signal and power quality and besides me, i got 4 other ppl in the house using the internet simultaneously.

SO can i have advice on what type of home network to build?
ROuters/extensions/homeplugs i should get?
My current router is asus RT-N16 and i never complain about it for 2 years +
I will definitely not used the given singtel router and even i have to i used it as a bridge.

 

[fleas1]

if singtel gives you the Aztec router(not the 2wire pace), I think you should stick with it. I heard its a pretty good dual band router.


That being said, I would suggest to you that you Trunk a Ethernet/LAN Cable from your living room to level 3 where you last placed your RT-N16 and re-use it. This should solve your problem. Don't forget to Put your RT-N16 as Access point Mode or Off its DHCP. This is the ideal setup if you want a stable connection.

Of course not everyone likes cable running or being trunked to the top. Another way is to connect wirelessly instead of cables

Setup:
ONT --fibre cable--> Aztec ISP Router ~~wirelessly~~> Level 2 Router ~~wireless~~> Your RT-N16 --wired or wirelessly~~> your PC

In this setup, you may need to get another router for the 2nd level as wireless signal may not able to travel through floors well(This is why you are experiencing very low signals). Every time you use wireless instead of wired, the speed get divided by half. So in this method, you will get lower bandwidth and slightly more latency which sucks for gaming. So probably if possible, try to trunk a LAN Cable to the 3rd level.

Note: Lan/Ethernet/cat6/cat5e can go up to 100m in length without any problems.

Another way is to use Power Line(homeplug), but this is a HIT and MISS thing. As it uses your power cables as a medium(similar to wire).

example:
ONT--wired--> Aztec ISP Router --wired-->(homeplug)Power Line pair1 @level1 --thru the electrical wires--> (homeplug)Power Line pair2 @level3 ~~Wirelessly or wired--> Your PC

 

[manyu882]

I hardly know someone would do trunking in a landed property because its an eyesore to the owners. Here are my suggestions..

-----
Suggestion 1:
Do you have only one circuit breaker(**) for the whole house?

If yes then, ONT->Homeplug(Near TV) ->Homeplug(your room at 3rd lvl)>Router(your room at 3rd lvl)

would work well.
-----
Suggestion 2:
If you are getting a new router from your new upgrade, and only have one **:

ONT->Router 1 (Near TV)->Homeplug (Near TV) ->Homeplug(your room at 3rd lvl)->Router2(your room at 3rd lvl)

The advantage of using this config is that all 3 levels will get very good wifi signal.
However, settings has to be configured correctly on Router2.
-----


Depends on how long the electrical cables is in between two sockets and the type of homeplug, the latency to the router you will expect is between 1 to 4 ms.

As for the type of homeplug I suggest you go for AV2.
Source: tested with 4 level house

 

[Rocketprince]

I hardly know someone would do trunking in a landed property because its an eyesore to the owners. Here are my suggestions..

-----
Suggestion 1:
Do you have only one circuit breaker(**) for the whole house?

If yes then, ONT->Homeplug(Near TV) ->Homeplug(your room at 3rd lvl)>Router(your room at 3rd lvl)

would work well.
-----
Suggestion 2:
If you are getting a new router from your new upgrade, and only have one **:

ONT->Router 1 (Near TV)->Homeplug (Near TV) ->Homeplug(your room at 3rd lvl)->Router2(your room at 3rd lvl)

The advantage of using this config is that all 3 levels will get very good wifi signal.
However, settings has to be configured correctly on Router2.
-----


Depends on how long the electrical cables is in between two sockets and the type of homeplug, the latency to the router you will expect is between 1 to 4 ms.

As for the type of homeplug I suggest you go for AV2.
Source: tested with 4 level house

Hmm maybe I'll go with the suggestion 2 and no I wont do trunking:
ONT->Router 1 (Near TV)->Homeplug (Near TV) ->Homeplug(your room at 3rd lvl)->Router2(your room at 3rd lvl)

Was planning to get a new Asus AC router anyway I got none AC compatible products but i might slowly change it in the future). So router 1 will be the AC router which then connected to the home plug.
The other homeplug will be at my room then connected to my current Asus router.

So basically I have to get a router and a pair of homeplugs.
Lets say I already have a router which i have decided on (AC ASUS) but I'm not sure which brand AV2 homplugs I should get?
Aztech maybe?

 

[manyu882]

So basically I have to get a router and a pair of homeplugs.
Lets say I already have a router which i have decided on (AC ASUS) but I'm not sure which brand AV2 homplugs I should get?
Aztech maybe?

Unfortunately, I don't have any expertise on AV2 products. Browse around this forum and internet then decide which one you think is the best.

 

[Rocketprince]

Unfortunately, I don't have any expertise on AV2 products. Browse around this forum and internet then decide which one you think is the best.

Alright. Will take a look at that in the other sub forums. Thanks for your advice ppl!

 

[davidktw]

Hi,

I believe many home will require additional routers to either increase their WIFI range or to extend to another computer...etc

This guide is based on my experience and should able to help you give a basic understanding and guide line to help you setup.



A Typical Fibre Connection:

TP ---> ONT ---> ISP Router ---> Your Devices/pc/tv/phone..etc

TP = is the wall point on which opennet has installed
ONT = Optical Network Terminal; to Translate light into electrical for RJ45/Ethernet LAN Cable
ISP Router = is the router or modem given free/bundle with your plan



A Typical Broadband Connection:

TP ----> ISP Modem/Router ---> your devices/pc/tv/phone...etc

TP = Point from the wall


Ok, Now before you buy, you must understand what type of device will suit your need.

These are the 3 main devices you will need to extend your network:

1. Unmanaged Switch (Think of it as adding additional ports when your router ports are all used up)

2. Access Point (Usually used for just increasing WIFI coverage)

3. Router (Switch + Access Point)

Unmanaged Switches are plug in and play, meaning all you have to do is just plug in the network cable and your done.

Some Access Point connect via wirelessly so you have to configure it before you can use. eg: go to the Access Point web interface, Find and connect to your wireless. Then setup your Wireless. Please do not use the same channel as your current router.

Note: Some Router are able to switch into an Access Point via button or in web interface settings. They are also plug in and play if you connect via wired.


Setting up Additional Router for your Network:
Some of you may have bought a router or have an extra one to use. Router are a bit more tricky in setting up.


1): Set a static IP For your Router so it doesn't change when the power is out or when you reset either routers.

First, enter your Main router web interface(usually 192.168.1.1 or could be 192.168.1.254[singtel] or possibly 192.168.0.1). Then find a menu to reserve IP.
It's usually near DHCP or LAN section on most routers.

If my main router is 192.168.1.1 then I would usually give my secondary router 192.168.1.2

note: only the last octet(xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx --> xxx are octets) due to subnet mask.


2): Turn off DHCP on your secondary router: this is to prevent IP Conflict on your network.


3): Setting up wireless

Sometimes its better to have a different name(SSID) from your current WIFI as it helps identify which gives better signal or to troubleshoot if there's any technical problems.

Example: Main router SSID: Hamster1, Channel: 3. Secondary router SSID: Hamster2, Channel: 8.



However, some prefer a cleaner and single SSID which is still possible but requires you to set a static channel(1-11) otherwise it will cause connection problems. Security type(eg:WPA2, AES, TKIP...etc), SSID Name must be the same.


Example: Main router SSID: Hamster, Channel: 3. Secondary router SSID Hamster, Channel: 8.


If there's any questions you would like to ask please post below and i'll try to help

Just 2 things to note

1) I would not recommend 2 access points on the same channel unless the signals are not overlapping. Channels translate to radio frequencies, and having 2 overlapping radio nodes transmitting within the same precinct will result in more carrier collisions and carrier collisions are expensive for radio waves. The faster the network, and worse it gets. In state, you should use non-overlapping channels and the same SSID. This way, if your client adapter is aggressive in searching for better signalled access point, they will hands off between each other. To uniquely identify an access point, use the BSSID instead.

2) DHCP do not contribute to IP conflict if done properly. The idea is having a different range of IP addresses assigned to each DHCP server. However, under the same subnet, such techniques are normally not necessary since broadcast occurs within the same subnet and the DHCP server will receive the request for IP no matter how many nodes the IP packets goes through. From a technical perspective, you can always have one DHCP server serving, for example, the range X.Y.Z.2-128 and another serving X.Y.Z-129-254. In this way, there will be no chances of conflict under dynamic IP mapping.

 

[Snowblind]

I am using 2 Asus rt-56n routers in my new 4 room bto. One is the main connected to the ont providing coverage to hall and kitchen area. Another in one of the bedroom and provides coverage to the master bedroom and gaming room. Not quite happy with the speed but the issue might be the wires. Coverage is good. Also got one guy in the forum who provides the service of changing phone ports to lab ports to do the same for me.

 

[fleas1]

2) DHCP do not contribute to IP conflict if done properly. The idea is having a different range of IP addresses assigned to each DHCP server. However, under the same subnet, such techniques are normally not necessary since broadcast occurs within the same subnet and the DHCP server will receive the request for IP no matter how many nodes the IP packets goes through. From a technical perspective, you can always have one DHCP server serving, for example, the range X.Y.Z.2-128 and another serving X.Y.Z-129-254. In this way, there will be no chances of conflict under dynamic IP mapping.

Yes, that would be better in a way. However imo, I find it easier to let 1 router assign all the IPs so I can just configure that router if I want to reserve IP...etc. Thanks for the info though, I didn't think about separating DHCP range. That's a pretty good idea

 

[fleas1]

I am using 2 Asus rt-56n routers in my new 4 room bto. One is the main connected to the ont providing coverage to hall and kitchen area. Another in one of the bedroom and provides coverage to the master bedroom and gaming room. Not quite happy with the speed but the issue might be the wires. Coverage is good. Also got one guy in the forum who provides the service of changing phone ports to lab ports to do the same for me.

so is your config like this:

ONT --wired--> Asus n56u(hall) --wired--> Asus n56u(bedroom) --wired/wireless~~> Devices

or

ONT --wired--> Asus n56u(hall) ~~wireless~~> Asus n56u(bedroom) --wired/wireless~~> Devices

?

what are lab ports?

if your singtel, you can actually request for them to use your the ONT's phone ports instead @ no extra charge.

 

[Snowblind]

It's lan ports not lab. Samsung new autocorrect. ..not used to it.

My configuration is the first one. Using m1 fibre as I get multi line discount.

Used to have configuration 2 in my old place with the 2nd router being a repeater. The speed was not good.

 

[reggaez]

Hmm maybe I'll go with the suggestion 2 and no I wont do trunking:
ONT->Router 1 (Near TV)->Homeplug (Near TV) ->Homeplug(your room at 3rd lvl)->Router2(your room at 3rd lvl)

Was planning to get a new Asus AC router anyway I got none AC compatible products but i might slowly change it in the future). So router 1 will be the AC router which then connected to the home plug.
The other homeplug will be at my room then connected to my current Asus router.

So basically I have to get a router and a pair of homeplugs.
Lets say I already have a router which i have decided on (AC ASUS) but I'm not sure which brand AV2 homplugs I should get?
Aztech maybe?

I got the same setup as you at home.... currently i am using ASUS N56U as the main router, connected to a pair of TP Link 500mbps homeplugs and a Linksys Cisco Router in bedroom. Satisfactory speeds achieved, 3 generations living under the same roof happily streaming videos and play online games LOL

 

[reggaez]

It's lan ports not lab. Samsung new autocorrect. ..not used to it.

My configuration is the first one. Using m1 fibre as I get multi line discount.

Used to have configuration 2 in my old place with the 2nd router being a repeater. The speed was not good.

Repeater signal always drops or become very slow.... homeplugs solved my problem, so much that i cancelled my landline and use skype for my IDD calls to my parents...

 

[StopJoking]

I hardly know someone would do trunking in a landed property because its an eyesore to the owners. Here are my suggestions..

-----
Suggestion 1:
Do you have only one circuit breaker(**) for the whole house?

If yes then, ONT->Homeplug(Near TV) ->Homeplug(your room at 3rd lvl)>Router(your room at 3rd lvl)

would work well.
-----
Suggestion 2:
If you are getting a new router from your new upgrade, and only have one **:

ONT->Router 1 (Near TV)->Homeplug (Near TV) ->Homeplug(your room at 3rd lvl)->Router2(your room at 3rd lvl)

The advantage of using this config is that all 3 levels will get very good wifi signal.
However, settings has to be configured correctly on Router2.
-----


Depends on how long the electrical cables is in between two sockets and the type of homeplug, the latency to the router you will expect is between 1 to 4 ms.

As for the type of homeplug I suggest you go for AV2.
Source: tested with 4 level house

using m1 fibre 200mbps
sorry hijack your thread. my house currently getting weak signal on 3rd floor and other end of the house.
this is my layout
1st floor:
TP->ONT-> asus n56u (front of the house)
lan from router can achieve 200mbps
back of the house wifi signal is 1bar from wifi

2nd floor:
engenius esr9850 in repeater mode(directly above n56u)
using lan from the esr9850 getting around 50-70mbps
back of the house getting 1bar from wifi with freq disconnections

3rd floor:
directly above esr9850 can get 2-3bar wifi strength.

What are my options to improve wifi.
first floor using one **.
2nd and 3rd floor one **.

thanks in advance

 

[fleas1]

you can turn off autocorrect by going settings --> language input and select auto predictive text.


if your setup is no.1, you should not experience bad speed unless you are on wireless.

 

[Snowblind]

The speed is definitely not up to my expectation. I took the 200mbps plan. Have not crossed 100 on wired. But since i just moved in to new house, busy with a lot of stuff. Plus it is more stable then my old starhub broadband which was rubbish.

But I do feel I need to play with the settings before I call m1 regarding the speed.

 

[manyu882]

using m1 fibre 200mbps
sorry hijack your thread. my house currently getting weak signal on 3rd floor and other end of the house.
this is my layout
1st floor:
TP->ONT-> asus n56u (front of the house)
lan from router can achieve 200mbps
back of the house wifi signal is 1bar from wifi

2nd floor:
engenius esr9850 in repeater mode(directly above n56u)
using lan from the esr9850 getting around 50-70mbps
back of the house getting 1bar from wifi with freq disconnections

3rd floor:
directly above esr9850 can get 2-3bar wifi strength.

What are my options to improve wifi.
first floor using one **.
2nd and 3rd floor one **.

thanks in advance

If your goal is to get good wireless signals at all levels in your house and trunking is not an option, try homeplugs.

Since you have 2 ** on 2 different levels, no guarantee that you can get good connection speeds between 2 sockets on different levels.

I'd recommend you to go buy a pair of cheap second hand homeplugs (rated at least AV200) and test out each of every strategic points you think it's best to place the routers at before investing a pair of expensive homeplugs. Same thing, you need to reconfigure the other router to router mode instead of repeater mode.

If you are getting 2 different brand of homeplugs, remember to swap sides and retest the speed. Get AC passthough or noise filter homeplugs for the router at the ONT.

Test the connection speed though homeplugs and Wireless strength. Use extension wire if needed.

3 basic rules to follow:
1) The line of sight from router and wireless device; the lesser and thinner wall obstruction, the better it is.
2)The closer to the router the better.
3) every 1 foot thick wall = roughly 10m distant

The expected speedtest.net speeds on a good electric circuit are:

for a AV200 plug, 40 to 50Mbps
For AV500 plug, 80 to 95mbps
For AV600 (AV2) plug based on reviews, 170 to 230Mbps.

 

[StopJoking]

If your goal is to get good wireless signals at all levels in your house and trunking is not an option, try homeplugs.

Since you have 2 ** on 2 different levels, no guarantee that you can get good connection speeds between 2 sockets on different levels.

I'd recommend you to go buy a pair of cheap second hand homeplugs (rated at least AV200) and test out each of every strategic points you think it's best to place the routers at before investing a pair of expensive homeplugs. Same thing, you need to reconfigure the other router to router mode instead of repeater mode.

If you are getting 2 different brand of homeplugs, remember to swap sides and retest the speed. Get AC passthough or noise filter homeplugs for the router at the ONT.

Test the connection speed though homeplugs and Wireless strength. Use extension wire if needed.

3 basic rules to follow:
1) The line of sight from router and wireless device; the lesser and thinner wall obstruction, the better it is.
2)The closer to the router the better.
3) every 1 foot thick wall = roughly 10m distant

The expected speedtest.net speeds on a good electric circuit are:

for a AV200 plug, 40 to 50Mbps
For AV500 plug, 80 to 95mbps
For AV600 (AV2) plug based on reviews, 170 to 230Mbps.

i tried using old pair of homeplugs from my miotv last time not cannot work. seems like its cause 2nd floor and 1st floor run on different phase? so now the only solution other than trunking is wireless?

 

[manyu882]

i tried using old pair of homeplugs from my miotv last time not cannot work. seems like its cause 2nd floor and 1st floor run on different phase? so now the only solution other than trunking is wireless?

If that's the case, try MOCA It runs internet through coaxial cables.
http://deluxeforums.hardwarezone.co...ca-ethernet-over-coax-adapters-3310854-2.html