HDB Occupier VS co-owner

[nuar777]

Hi guys.

I'd like to ask your advise on the following topic.
We are married couple (no kids) who bought resale 3rm flat a few years ago. That time I was on EP (employment pass) and my hubby is Singaporean, so the flat was registered under his name (Owner) and I was listed as an Occupier.
Payment was split about 60/40%: hubby pays by CPF, and I pay by cash.

Now I'm PR. So, I'm wondering if it's wise to change my status from "occupier" to "co-owner". What do you think? Does it give any advantages/disadvantages in future? We do not intend to sell flat soon, maybe will be staying here for a long time, another 10 years or longer, but just in case I would like to check what can be the consequences of such a change to co-owner.

Thanks!

 

[keithster]

An occupier is only an occupier. You are not the owner at all.

Lady you hv to safeguard ur own interests..

 

[twinklingstars]

i also have the same issues, im the sole owner of a bto flat, my sibling is the essential occupier. should i move up his name to co-owner when he officially starts work? so that he can help contribute to the mortgage loan using his CPF?

 

[keithster]

i also have the same issues, im the sole owner of a bto flat, my sibling is the essential occupier. should i move up his name to co-owner when he officially starts work? so that he can help contribute to the mortgage loan using his CPF?

it is another question of whether you wanna safeguard ur own interests...

next time if you sell, by right you need to co-share 50-50 of your sales proceeds with him if under joint-tenancy. if tenancy-in-common, you can define how many percentage he can have, but he needs to agree

 

[twinklingstars]

it is another question of whether you wanna safeguard ur own interests...

next time if you sell, by right you need to co-share 50-50 of your sales proceeds with him if under joint-tenancy. if tenancy-in-common, you can define how many percentage he can have, but he needs to agree

oic.. of course i would want the payout to be according to how much we have contributed, the person who contributes less, will get less of the sales proceeds, vice versa.

for tenancy-in-common, can they pay the mortgage loan using their CPF?

 

[keithster]

oic.. of course i would want the payout to be according to how much we have contributed, the person who contributes less, will get less of the sales proceeds, vice versa.

for tenancy-in-common, can they pay the mortgage loan using their CPF?

for the payout to be fair for each other, it is best to pay using CPF becos end of the day, a portion of the sales proceeds will go back to your CPF individually.

if you want your brother to contribute and wanna safeguard urself, you can tell the HDB officer that you wanna opt of tenancy-in-common but you want 70-30 or something...

 

[nuar777]

An occupier is only an occupier. You are not the owner at all.

Lady you hv to safeguard ur own interests..

Thanks for your input. Ya, I realize that I don't own anything.

I actually wrote an email to HDB officer asking for the transfer procedure. Was trying to find information on HDB website, but there it's mostly about ownership transfer and many fees involved (stamp fee, valuation fee ets). I'm confused if we need to pay all that in our case or not, as it seems to be such a simple case - just changing occupier to co-owner.

My concern is that If I become a co-owner does it mean, that my hubby will get some of his CPF back and I will have to contribute my share by CPF? My CPF is quite small for now, not sure if it's gonna be enough. What if I was paying for the flat till now in cash? - are they gonna take this amount as my "share"? Can I continue paying by Giro? wah, too many questions...

If HDB officer replies I'll let you know.

 

[nuar777]

I hate to think about bad scenarios, but let's say in case something happen to one of the co-owners, that's what I found on HDB website:

Demise of Joint Owner
The remaining family or single occupier is allowed to retain the existing flat after the owner has passed away, provided:
he / she is a Singapore Citizen or Singapore Permanent Resident (SPR)
he / she is at least 21 years old
he / she satisfies HDB's prevailing eligibility rules and conditions to own a flat

Under joint tenancy, if one of the flat owners passes away, the deceased joint-tenant’s share or interest in the flat will be passed on to the surviving joint tenant(s).

Does it mean surviving joint tenant need to pay only his part of loan? Do I understand it correctly?

And:

Demise of Sole Owner/Tenant-in-Common
The remaining family or single occupier is allowed to retain the existing flat after the owner has passed away, provided:
he / she is a Singapore Citizen or Singapore Permanent Resident (SPR),
he / she is at least 21 years old, and,
he / she satisfies HDB's prevailing eligibility rules and conditions to own a flat

If there is a Will:

The deceased’s interest in the flat will be distributed according to the Will. The deceased’s family should engage a private solicitor to apply to the Courts for a Grant of Probate.

If there is no Will

The deceased’s interest in the flat will be distributed according to the provisions of the Intestate Succession Act.

This one is more or less clear as long as there's a will.

What about a case of Sole owner + occupier? Nothing about it in HDB website...

 

[henrylbh]

What about a case of Sole owner + occupier? Nothing about it in HDB website...

Occupier gets nothing if owner passes away, even if the flat is fully paid for by occupier.


HDB is not concerned who pays how much. It's co-owner or tenant-in-common.

 

[nuar777]

Occupier gets nothing if owner passes away, even if the flat is fully paid for by occupier.


HDB is not concerned who pays how much. It's co-owner or tenant-in-common.

IC... Apparently our case is even more complicated, as we are Muslims. So, there are also some Muslim laws applicable in case something happens to my hubby. I'm not sure if I need to be a co-owner for Muslim inheritance laws to work or being occupier is enough...

 

[o0KelviN0o]

sorry to sidetrack a little...

currently my wife & i are owners of our current HDB ("A") and we may upgrade to a bigger one ("B") soon.

can i be the owner and my wife the occupier if i am the only one servicing the loan ("B")? if she is the occupier of "B", can she take over her parent's flat when they pass on?

 

[nuar777]

o0KelviN0o, that's not a sidetrack at all. Actually, I'm also interested to know about this scenario.
Can the person being an occupier in one flat own another HDB flat?

 

[therat]

sorry to sidetrack a little...

currently my wife & i are owners of our current HDB ("A") and we may upgrade to a bigger one ("B") soon.

can i be the owner and my wife the occupier if i am the only one servicing the loan ("B")? if she is the occupier of "B", can she take over her parent's flat when they pass on?

don't think is possible.

If can, you will see alot of couple own 2 HDBs.

 

[therat]

o0KelviN0o, that's not a sidetrack at all. Actually, I'm also interested to know about this scenario.
Can the person being an occupier in one flat own another HDB flat?

once you own a HDB, your occupier status in another flat will be remove.

I was register as occupier at my MIL HDB. She is the only owner.
When we bought a HDB, our name (me and my spouse) automatic remove from my MIL occupier.

 

[nuar777]

once you own a HDB, your occupier status in another flat will be remove.

I was register as occupier at my MIL HDB. She is the only owner.
When we bought a HDB, our name (me and my spouse) automatic remove from my MIL occupier.

therat, thanks, didn't know about this. Actually, I cannot buy flat on my own at the moment (coz I'm PR, not Singaporean), but it's interesting to know what is better in the long run - continue being an occupier or switch to HDB co-owner.

Officer from HDB got back to me and told that we can do a transfer, it will cost about 1K+, can be paid by CPF.

Btw, if I become a co-owner, do we BOTH have to pay for HDB flat? Or, the loan can be under one person only (my hubby)?

 

[c1528351]

therat, thanks, didn't know about this. Actually, I cannot buy flat on my own at the moment (coz I'm PR, not Singaporean), but it's interesting to know what is better in the long run - continue being an occupier or switch to HDB co-owner.

Officer from HDB got back to me and told that we can do a transfer, it will cost about 1K+, can be paid by CPF.

Btw, if I become a co-owner, do we BOTH have to pay for HDB flat? Or, the loan can be under one person only (my hubby)?

Hi, I have the same scenario 8 years back with my wife who was just a PR and I am a singaporean. I changed her status from a occupier to co-owner and all the transfer fees paid by CPF. The problems was if u don't add in your name as co-owner and anythings went wrong with the owner...U will not get a single cent back.

 

[KopRulez]

Thanks for your input. Ya, I realize that I don't own anything.

I actually wrote an email to HDB officer asking for the transfer procedure. Was trying to find information on HDB website, but there it's mostly about ownership transfer and many fees involved (stamp fee, valuation fee ets). I'm confused if we need to pay all that in our case or not, as it seems to be such a simple case - just changing occupier to co-owner.

My concern is that If I become a co-owner does it mean, that my hubby will get some of his CPF back and I will have to contribute my share by CPF? My CPF is quite small for now, not sure if it's gonna be enough. What if I was paying for the flat till now in cash? - are they gonna take this amount as my "share"? Can I continue paying by Giro? wah, too many questions...

If HDB officer replies I'll let you know.

therat, thanks, didn't know about this. Actually, I cannot buy flat on my own at the moment (coz I'm PR, not Singaporean), but it's interesting to know what is better in the long run - continue being an occupier or switch to HDB co-owner.

Officer from HDB got back to me and told that we can do a transfer, it will cost about 1K+, can be paid by CPF.

Btw, if I become a co-owner, do we BOTH have to pay for HDB flat? Or, the loan can be under one person only (my hubby)?

Since both of you are muslims, Intestate Succession Act doesn't apply to both of you even if he has a will or not.

Anything that is related to matters of marriage, divorce, guardianship and inheritance of Muslims in Singapore are governed by administration of Muslim Law Act.

Back to your earlier question regarding to the transfer of your occupier to co-owner status, it can be done at your nearest HDB branch office.

I did mine at HDB branch office, to transfer my wife occupier status to co-owner. I think during the process, the officer will re-access my HDB loan, pay the valuation fees, stamp fees, sign some documents and also the Home Protection Scheme. All paid thru' my CPF.

The monthly HDB loan is paid by my CPF only, and my wife doesn't contribute any to the loan as her CPF is very insignificant.

Hope this helps you.

 

[nuar777]

KopRulez, c1528351, - thank you, that was very helpful!

Since both of you are muslims, Intestate Succession Act doesn't apply to both of you even if he has a will or not.

Anything that is related to matters of marriage, divorce, guardianship and inheritance of Muslims in Singapore are governed by administration of Muslim Law Act.

KopRulez, just to double-check - Muslim Law Act applicable even if I'm just an occupier? Or, we must own a flat as co-owners? I was browsing Muis website, but all their examples referring to joint tenancy. I've sent an email to Muis representative (yeah, I like sending emails. ), so waiting for his confirmation.

 

[KopRulez]

KopRulez, c1528351, - thank you, that was very helpful!

KopRulez, just to double-check - Muslim Law Act applicable even if I'm just an occupier? Or, we must own a flat as co-owners? I was browsing Muis website, but all their examples referring to joint tenancy. I've sent an email to Muis representative (yeah, I like sending emails. ), so waiting for his confirmation.

You need to be informed on this, An occupier co-lives in the unit but does not contribute to the paying of the house, and therefore legally he/she does not have a share owning the unit. Co-owner will have a share in the property but not necessary contributing to the service of housing loan.

What I know is this, some civil laws still prevails over Muslim law if there is a conflict of laws in matters other than those covered by Muslim laws.

You will be "protected" somehow if you are an co-owner and take up HPS with HDB, or your hubby has many siblings and relative etc....

 

[nuar777]

KopRulez, thanks a lot for clarification!