HDB prices

antonpoh

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They got it all wrong, we never overestimate HDB price cause BTO price are not set by us. Even the resale HDB valuation report was never done by us. :s22:

I heard new BTO near Boon keng mrt is aro 600k.
 

Perisher

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I think nobody wanna expose their HDB price here, haha, anyway, the HDB resale prices is damn high, wonder if I will be able to buy one without a huge debt some day.
 

antonpoh

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Actually resale price are now at it's lowest i think. Also depend on which location you're looking at. When will you be hitting 35?

Just buy what you can afford.
 

Perisher

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Actually resale price are now at it's lowest i think. Also depend on which location you're looking at. When will you be hitting 35?

Just buy what you can afford.

haha, about 5 years away. If now is lowest, 5 years later...:s8:
 

djchris

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Prices are quite stable now. But doesn't mean that owners are making a loss or that prices are not going up. Just not skyrocketing.
 

hindsight

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Eh the headlines do not make any sense. At least 1/3 doesn't know the price so how could they have overestimated BTO prices? The % of respondents who overestimated prices isn't that huge, its really only 16%, I'm not counting the 28% who said 300-400k because ~300k is right in the ballpark for new 4rm BTOs.
 

antonpoh

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I think nobody wanna expose their HDB price here, haha, anyway, the HDB resale prices is damn high, wonder if I will be able to buy one without a huge debt some day.

Actually gahmen is trying to push the resale price higher. You can read from the news last year.

16,900 new flats expected in 2015

On average 30,000 couple get married every year and 80% of the market are hdb. If they reduce the BTO to 16,900.. those who can't get BTO will need to buy from resale.
 

henrylbh

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Actually gahmen is trying to push the resale price higher. You can read from the news last year.

16,900 new flats expected in 2015

On average 30,000 couple get married every year and 80% of the market are hdb. If they reduce the BTO to 16,900.. those who can't get BTO will need to buy from resale.

How could there be 30,000 couples getting married every year when the birth rate more than 20 years ago was around 45,000.
 

Perisher

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Prices isn't even low to begin with. When one needs to work 25 years to pay off a house, it's not cheap.
 

antonpoh

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Prices isn't even low to begin with. When one needs to work 25 years to pay off a house, it's not cheap.

It's just inflation. Even when hdb 3rm was 30k, it also took my parents aro 25yrs to pay off the loan.
 

Perisher

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I shall quote from this blog
http://jeremy-chen.org/blog/201309/affordability-hdb-flats-then-and-now

"We can see that in 1980, the price of a 3-room HDB flat in Queenstown is $20,000. The salary of a factory operator was $500 a month or $6,000 a year then. Going by the Price-to-Income ratio, the price of 3-room flat in Queenstown then was 3.33 times of annual salary of a factory operator. At ratio less than 5, it is considered quite affordable to buy the flat.
By 2013, 33 years later, the price of a 3-room HDB flat in Queenstown has risen to $335,000 while the salary of a factory operator is only $1,100 a month or $13,200 a year. The Price-to-Income ratio in this case is calculated to be 25.4, grossly unaffordable to a factory operator.

Indeed, in the last 33 years since 1980, the salary of an operator goes up roughly 2 times ($500 to $1,100) while a 3 room flat in Queenstown goes up 17 times ($20,000 to $335,000)!"

On reading it, I had a sense that the PAP smear brigade would might react by making hay about "improper comparisons" and that housing prices have remained affordable and that "oppies" thrive on "misinforming the public" and "misrepresenting the data". But the truth is, Leong and Han essentially have it. Let me add my two or three cents to sharpen the analysis and strengthen their conclusion.

Firstly, they might have compared 1980 Queenstown three room flats with three room flats in new towns like Punggol. This avoids the "Queenstown was not a mature estate back then, but it is now" criticism. So let's do that. Consider the numbers for the March 2013 BTO. In Seng Kang, a 3-room flat costs at least $160k. Maxing out on grants, it becomes $100k+++. So the minimum ratio is about 7.6. In practice it will cost quite a bit more (as all Singaporeans know "+++" suggests), but the ballpark is around there.

What we observe is that the deterioration of affordability is indeed very bad: from a price to annual income ratio of 3.3 to about 7.6. This is certainly not as horrifying as having it go to 25.4, but seriously, once you get to 10, you're sort of numb to any further increase anyway. But what does all of this mean operationally. Let me provide an interest-free approximation. A ratio of 3.3 means repayment of just over 16 years with monthly payments of 20% gross salary. With a ratio of 7.6, that means 37 years on 20%, 30 years on 25%, and 25 years on 30%. The numbers suggest "out of reasonable reach".
 

antonpoh

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I shall quote from this blog
http://jeremy-chen.org/blog/201309/affordability-hdb-flats-then-and-now

"We can see that in 1980, the price of a 3-room HDB flat in Queenstown is $20,000. The salary of a factory operator was $500 a month or $6,000 a year then. Going by the Price-to-Income ratio, the price of 3-room flat in Queenstown then was 3.33 times of annual salary of a factory operator. At ratio less than 5, it is considered quite affordable to buy the flat.
By 2013, 33 years later, the price of a 3-room HDB flat in Queenstown has risen to $335,000 while the salary of a factory operator is only $1,100 a month or $13,200 a year. The Price-to-Income ratio in this case is calculated to be 25.4, grossly unaffordable to a factory operator.

I don't think local factory operator is only $1,100 a month in 2013. Unless they employ FT to do it but then it won't be comparing to the same thing.
 

Perisher

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I don't think local factory operator is only $1,100 a month in 2013. Unless they employ FT to do it but then it won't be comparing to the same thing.

Even at $1500, the ratio is still 18 times...

I think we can all agree that HDB prices rises faster than common folks salary.
 
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