Help with CPF nomination

[Thai_Rak_Thai]

Just curious, instead of an official nomination - why not do a will, it can be extremely precise to your instruction

 

[a4973]

Just curious, instead of an official nomination - why not do a will, it can be extremely precise to your instruction

A quick simple search yields this finding
https://www.cpf.gov.sg/member/account-services/providing-for-your-loved-ones/making-a-cpf-nomination

* CPF savings cannot be included in your will because they do not form your estate. This arrangement protects your CPF savings from creditor claims on any outstanding debts you may have, and preserves your savings fully for your nominees or family members

 

[BBCWatcher]

That is my initial understanding also. But the officer say if I nominate my spouse and we kick the bucket together, all the cpf monies will only go to her parents and not mine.

I think you can do this:

• spouse: 99.8%
• parent #1: 0.1%
• parent #2: 0.1%

If your spouse predeceases you then I believe what happens with these nominations, automatically, is that Parent #1 and Parent #2 split your CPF savings when you pass away. If you predecease your spouse (and parents) then the distribution is exactly as indicated above.

Your spouse's assets are your spouse's assets. If you leave money to your spouse then it's up to your spouse what to do with that money. You don't get to decide what your spouse does with his/her estate. If your spouse dies 5 minutes after you do, and you've left $5 million to your spouse, then...your spouse's estate distribution decisions govern. (And your spouse can change his/her mind!)

All you can do is decide how your estate (and CPF savings) should be distributed upon your demise. You don't get another bite when someone else passes on. Unless perhaps you set up a trust.

Probably just don't do CPF nomination. If not mistaken, it will follow Intestate Succession Act.

Yes, but via the Public Trustee as an intermediary. The Public Trustee charges a fairly decent sized fee.

 

[KnyghtRyder]

Just curious, instead of an official nomination - why not do a will, it can be extremely precise to your instruction

You can't will cpf funds.

 

[fire]

I think you can do this:

• spouse: 99.8%
• parent #1: 0.1%
• parent #2: 0.1%

If your spouse predeceases you then I believe what happens with these nominations, automatically, is that Parent #1 and Parent #2 split your CPF savings when you pass away. If you predecease your spouse (and parents) then the distribution is exactly as indicated above.

Your spouse's assets are your spouse's assets. If you leave money to your spouse then it's up to your spouse what to do with that money. You don't get to decide what your spouse does with his/her estate. If your spouse dies 5 minutes after you do, and you've left $5 million to your spouse, then...your spouse's estate distribution decisions govern. (And your spouse can change his/her mind!)

All you can do is decide how your estate (and CPF savings) should be distributed upon your demise. You don't get another bite when someone else passes on. Unless perhaps you set up a trust.

Yes, but via the Public Trustee as an intermediary. The Public Trustee charges a fairly decent sized fee.

Better to do the below:

• spouse: 80%
• parent #1: 10%
• parent #2: 10%

0.1% is very very very little

 

[royalmix]

Hi,

Initially my spouse and I wanted to do the following
1) if account more than 100k, leave 100k for our parents and the rest to spouse. If below 100k, then all to our parents. Then the officer told us this is not possible and we can only do by %. Is there any workaround on this?

If you account balance is 101k, you still want to give your parents 100k right, that is your objective, take care of parents first?

3) we ended up doing a calculation using % of cpf to ensure our parents get at least 100k but I think we would have to edit the % every year due to the fluctuation of cpf value

Your objective - at least 100k right? At least 100k means more is ok right, so your current % nomination for both parents in total will give your parents at least 100k, then you have achieved your objective. More than 100k is ok, less than 100k not ok! In future, if your CPF explode, then you revise the % accordingly, there is a need to review your CPF nominations regularly for any change in your status, like have kids, etc.

Make sure your parents get it, its is your duty/responsibility, think of the situation where both of you die together, your wife's estate will inherit all your assets nominated to her or under intestate.

Just sharing my view, the rest is up to you.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Better to do the below:

• spouse: 80%
• parent #1: 10%
• parent #2: 10%

0.1% is very very very little

It depends on what your goal is. If your goal is, “spouse first, parents strictly second” then the 99.8/0.1/0.1 arrangement works great. If you want to flip the order do this:

• spouse: 0.2%
• parent #1: 49.9%
• parent #2: 49.9%

As I understand it the CPF Board ignores previously deceased nominees when distributing CPF savings. In this example if both parents die before the member does then the spouse gets all CPF savings. If one parent dies before the member does then the surviving parent gets 499/511ths of the member’s CPF savings (virtually all of it). Using these tiny percentages is basically a way to make a contingent nomination, effectively “virtually all to one or more people, but if he/she/they die before I do then all to one or more other people.”

You can also have about 3 levels, for example:

• spouse 98.9%
• sibling 1.0%
• niece 0.1%

This arrangement means the spouse usually gets almost everything except if your spouse dies before you do. Then your sibling gets almost everything (10/11ths). But if both your spouse and sibling die before you do then your niece gets everything.

 

[gold_eagle36]

Sorry I don't quite get the logic still. Why can't we just renominate if one the nominees pass away. Instead of weird % combo.

agree on the 100% spouse nomination risk if both pass self and spouse pass away together. So to confirm the additional nominees will mitigate this ?

 

[BBCWatcher]

Sorry I don't quite get the logic still. Why can't we just renominate if one the nominees pass away. Instead of weird % combo.

Because you may forget, or you may be unable (due to incapacity) to make a new nomination if/when the time comes. The "tiny percentages" method works quite well for handling typical/common contingent bequests.

agree on the 100% spouse nomination risk if both pass self and spouse pass away together. So to confirm the additional nominees will mitigate this ?

Once anyone inherits assets those assets are theirs. They then decide what to do with them when they pass on. You don't get two bites at this apple. And if that someone else dies 5 minutes after you do, that doesn't change anything for these purposes.

If you want to attempt to control your assets after death then you'll likely need to construct a trust of some kind. And that's a whole different animal.

 

[royalmix]

Hi,

Initially my spouse and I wanted to do the following
1) if account more than 100k, leave 100k for our parents and the rest to spouse. If below 100k, then all to our parents. Then the officer told us this is not possible and we can only do by %. Is there any workaround on this?

2) after her explanation, we decided to leave everything in CPF to spouse and 100k will come from insurance payout. Then she further explained that if both of us died together eg plane crash, then my cpf will be absorbed into her cpf as I am older than her and her parents would be the one getting all the monies and my parents will receive nothing. In such scenario, is there no way that our parents get what we have respectively in our account?

3) we ended up doing a calculation using % of cpf to ensure our parents get at least 100k but I think we would have to edit the % every year due to the fluctuation of cpf value

Any advice on what is the best approach?

There is an alternative which Will writers will recommend but I will not suggest due to delay in claims/payout and potential complications. Nominations like CPF and Insurance is my preference, fuss free and no cost!

You can write a Will and state exactly 100k cash goes to your parents. If you have bank accounts of that amount or assets which can be liquidated to that amount to be distributed to them by the executor.

One of the benefits of writing a Will, to address mutual wills where both spouses die together and you would like to take care of your parents' interest first, and not want your assets to go to your wife's estate and nothing for your parents.

 

[yoongf]

Just curious..
If say nomination is

A = 30%
B = 30 %
C = 40%.

Upon distribution, will A know what B and C is getting?

Or is the distribution notice to A is strictly discussing A's distribution only?

Anyone saw that letter before?

 

[royalmix]

Just curious..
If say nomination is

A = 30%
B = 30 %
C = 40%.

Upon distribution, will A know what B and C is getting?

Or is the distribution notice to A is strictly discussing A's distribution only?

Anyone saw that letter before?

When you complete your CPF nomination, there is a question whether you want to disclose if i remembered correctly, I did mine at CPF center few years ago and the officer ask me that question.

Here more details https://www.cpf.gov.sg/member/faq/account-services/cpf-nomination-scheme

 

[sl-ss30h]

Not say kid will sure follow your instructions anyway

pinky is a good example.