How to explain to the older gen that the younger gen cannot afford HDB?

[TiedInsurer]

Of course I didn't read the paper. And why should I? This a short forum chat thread not an exercise in academia. I am also not trying to convince you or change your view. Besides I was mentioning TFR not gdp what not. As long as people are willing to come here and we are willing to take them with a calibrated approach, TFR isn't an issue. In fact I think attracting the right people is a greater challenge than TFR.

Then i guess all i can really say is that you're wrong. Importing foreign labor ad infinitum is NOT sustainable, and is not the solution.

This was famously argued in economist Alwyn Young’s paper ‘A Tale of Two Cities: Factor Accumulation and Technical Change in Hong Kong and Singapore’ in 1992. This argument was debated and reiterated several times, most famously by Paul Krugman. PAP publicly countered that the argument was simplistic and misguided. Before Young had published, however, the government had already quietly acknowledged that productivity was an issue and was striving to raise it. In fact, worries about Singapore’s productivity had been raised as early as 1982, when Lee Tsao Yuan wrote ‘Growth and Productivity in Singapore: A Supply Side Analysis’, arguing that Singapore’s manufacturing had stagnated in the 1970s.

 

[TiedInsurer]

Not sure what is your age? My observation is the younger gen much more choosy. Shift work cannot do. No work life balance cannot do. Too far cannot go work on time and many other things.

Maybe due to upbringing or? If the work force without FTs... We are doomed.. Seriously.. Among my frds... Some raise kids like Prince and princess...

Yeah i observed that too. That's also another issue that may be partially responsible for Singapore's productivity woes.

 

[TiedInsurer]

Hi Hahaha this is true. My parents always say I marry out. But it's ok bro. Idgaf what they think. I happy can already

Haha i cannot la. So hurtful.

 

[xdivider]

Hi Hahaha this is true. My parents always say I marry out. But it's ok bro. Idgaf what they think. I happy can already

if u bring back the grandson often enough, they probably will thank heavens they no need to take care of his tantrums at their age......

 

[MarkerG]

Yeah. Post-war economy, who do not want to conform to it.
Is now a post-war economy?

My post is not about economic conditions.
It is on the fact that some younger generation had difficulty living within their means. As shared, there are BTOs and resale which are affordable with their pay but they must buy units that are out of range and then claim it is the older generation's fault. During my time in the 90s, I also have to choose between an affordable BTO in ulu location or stretch to buy one in better location. No difference from current generation.
I earned $2k buy a 4-room BTO $134k, compare to TS earn $4.5k buy BTO $300k not much difference.

 

[junlove]

My post is not about economic conditions.
It is on the fact that some younger generation had difficulty living within their means. As shared, there are BTOs and resale which are affordable with their pay but they must buy units that are out of range and then claim it is the older generation's fault. During my time in the 90s, I also have to choose between an affordable BTO in ulu location or stretch to buy one in better location. No difference from current generation.
I earned $2k buy a 4-room BTO $134k, compare to TS earn $4.5k buy BTO $300k not much difference.

there is a difference, you are picking data 'selectively'.

many here keep saying why don't BTO, buy yishun, woodlands. But come on lah. Even 30 yrs ago, ask you buy lim chu kang if 60% cheaper you buy mah? Don't cherry pick lah, most of the BTOs are not cheap. Although i CAN agree, BTO is still affordable, but you cannot deny is is LESS AFFORDABLE compared to our times, inflation adjusted.

Problem is the RESALE, which is the BULK of the transaction and growth in price.

 

[TiedInsurer]

I earned $2k buy a 4-room BTO $134k, compare to TS earn $4.5k buy BTO $300k not much difference.

Median wage in 1995 is $3k.... median wage now is $5.5k. So you're basically saying that someone who was earning 60% of median wage back then, has a just as easy time as someone earning 80% median wage now...

That's not helping your case...

 

[MarkerG]

there is a difference, you are picking data 'selectively'.

many here keep saying why don't BTO, buy yishun, woodlands. But come on lah. Even 30 yrs ago, ask you buy lim chu kang if 60% cheaper you buy mah? Don't cherry pick lah, most of the BTOs are not cheap. Although i CAN agree, BTO is still affordable, but you cannot deny is is LESS AFFORDABLE compared to our times, inflation adjusted.

Problem is the RESALE, which is the BULK of the transaction and growth in price.

Tell that to people who buy BTO Bishan (instead of your mentioned LCK) last time and then to people who complain why Bishan resale price so high. People did buy and they are profiting now.
People also buy housing in Bidadari, Tengah and probably the coming Mt Pleasant will be hot.

As you said, it is Resale price escalating, not BTO.

 

[MarkerG]

Median wage in 1995 is $3k.... median wage now is $5.5k. So you're basically saying that someone who was earning 60% of median wage back then, has a just as easy time as someone earning 80% median wage now...

That's not helping your case...

I am not talking about median pay, because median pay take the whole spectrum of working adult.
I am stating that when I am a young adult, I earn $2k and pay $134k for my ulu BTO and TS as a young adult now earning $4.5k can choose to buy a $300k BTO. I don't see much difference in affordability. During my time, I also had had the choice of choosing a better location for higher price, not much difference from current situation.

 

[Shawny88]

Last time, families start off with 2 to 3rm flat and work harder and upgrade…

now people want to start off with 4rm flat in a good location…

 

[junlove]

I am not talking about median pay, because median pay take the whole spectrum of working adult.
I am stating that when I am a young adult, I earn $2k and pay $134k for my ulu BTO and TS as a young adult now earning $4.5k can choose to buy a $300k BTO. I don't see much difference in affordability. During my time, I also had had the choice of choosing a better location for higher price, not much difference from current situation.

When i'm earking 3k+ young adult, BTO is near 180 to 200k. i.e. you older, then you should know last time is DIFFERENT because. the better locations' pricing different. and the % of choices for cheaper ones also different leh. Even my time the resale is not 100k+ more exp; a better location and a worse is NOT sky difference. Nowadays the younger kids have to contend with x2 price difference btw BTO and resale, macham 300 to 500k more depends on location.

BTO is only a small supply of the housing as compare to the EVER-increasing RESALE, correct mah?

BTO is not the issue now, it's the overall property market.

But back to your pt, BTO indeed is more exp compare to our times, even accounting for inflation.

 

[MarkerG]

Last time, families start off with 2 to 3rm flat and work harder and upgrade…

now people want to start off with 4rm flat in a good location…

Last time stay Tampines work in city take bus crowded also have to endure, now take MRT stay Tampines work in city is considered too far, must buy Kallang or farthest Eunos.

 

[MarkerG]

When i'm earking 3k+ young adult, BTO is near 180 to 200k. i.e. you older, then you should know last time is DIFFERENT because. the better locations' pricing different. and the % of choices for cheaper ones also different leh. Even my time the resale is not 100k+ more exp; a better location and a worse is NOT sky difference. Nowadays the younger kids have to contend with x2 price difference btw BTO and resale, macham 300 to 500k more depends on location.

BTO is only a small supply of the housing as compare to the EVER-increasing RESALE, correct mah?

BTO is not the issue now, it's the overall property market.

But back to your pt, BTO indeed is more exp compare to our times, even accounting for inflation.

I quoted BTO in ulu area is affordable and you keep talking about resale price.
I talk about young adult buying BTO first house (where they have very high chance) (just need to ballot few times can get) and you talk about fewer BTO compared to resale (when 2nd timer had lower chance and no 3rd timer).
You talk about Prime location expensive when I said young adult can choose more ulu location.
We are at different wavelength. For easier discussion, if you replied and quoted me in your post, I prefer you stick to what I had said, and not what I did not say.

I quoted my time earn $2k BTO $134k (67months), you quoted yours $3k BTO $200k (67months), TS quoted 4.5k BTO $300k (67months) simply verified the fact the BTO price in ulu places throughout the 90s til now not much difference. Still same affordability.

 

[IAmChiobu12M]

Chiobu mm 加油！！
Gibe you a like!!
Aiya u knw boomers..just lile here u vomit blood de, no need say much to them

Wah 3rm 500k bto ex lehs
Where u got?
Which prime area

Yes considered prime area, central lol. But not near mrt one.

 

[lightningflash]

Not easy to get them to understand

 

[Techno Pride]

Was talking to a colleague who is much older than me (20yr older) who doesn't understand why with my salary, I have difficulty finding a resale flat to buy. She is genuinely curious and cannot see the light why the younger generation is complaining so much.

She owned a 4rm bto flat, sold it for a handsome profit and bought a 5 rm bto flat as a 2nd timer in AMK which is practically fully paid already. So she's extremely blind to my current housing woes where the newer HDB flats to cover me at least till 99 are all 600+k already. She still finds that her life is on easy mode and don't understand why younger people complain so much.

How do I talk to much people without being offensive?

Edit: we were talking about resale because I bidded bto but couldn't get a good enough queue number to choose the unit. Not that I saying bto unaffordable, it's that I'm not even given a chance to buy. So she was asking me why not resale.

You're the one who doesn't "get it".

If she admits that youre having problems affording housing, then she'll also have to admit she has NO IDEA how to properly teach the next generation as she has no solution. And no way she'll admit she has NO IDEA.

You know the whole "elders know best" schtick is the thing that prevents them from admitting they don't know something.

 

[Lss]

This year have 2 sbf try the second one.

In the meantime start trying for kids. Got kids easier to get sbf or bto also.

Once got it already then see what options you have for renting if required.

 

[Techno Pride]

It's very deaf.

She can retire already. Now earning money just for sustenance and kill time. Her life is very easy now in her 50s. House fully paid, 3 kids grow up at work, few more years collect cpf. Every year go 1 long 1 short holiday.

How to explain that actually life for us is not that easy?

It'll actually achieve nothing even if you manage to persuade her, which I doubt you'll ever succeed.

It's the dumb "elders knows best" Asian schtick. So what happens when an elder doesn't know something and can't properly teach the next generation?


************CRICKETS*************

 

[Ronaldo88]

This year have 2 sbf try the second one.

In the meantime start trying for kids. Got kids easier to get sbf or bto also.

Once got it already then see what options you have for renting if required.

got pphs if don't want stay with parents

 

[Mecisteus]

When i'm earking 3k+ young adult, BTO is near 180 to 200k. i.e. you older, then you should know last time is DIFFERENT because. the better locations' pricing different. and the % of choices for cheaper ones also different leh. Even my time the resale is not 100k+ more exp; a better location and a worse is NOT sky difference. Nowadays the younger kids have to contend with x2 price difference btw BTO and resale, macham 300 to 500k more depends on location.

BTO is only a small supply of the housing as compare to the EVER-increasing RESALE, correct mah?

BTO is not the issue now, it's the overall property market.

But back to your pt, BTO indeed is more exp compare to our times, even accounting for inflation.

I think this housing vs income trend is not unique to SG only.

It applies to any major cities around the world.

Population is expanding and the city is getting crowded.

So not easy to tame housing prices.