How to move forward with current policies

[shadow84]

Below is a list of my current plans/insurance.Currently 29 yrs old by year, birthday is in Dec.

1. Great Eastern Junior 88 Plus (Whole Life)

Start date: Nov 1999
Payable: $69.91/mth, paid by me
Death: $50K
TPD: $50K
Living Assurance Benefit: $50K

2. SAF Aviva Group Term Plan
Start date: Jun 2009, should be the date that i enter NS
Payable: $13.37/mth, paid by me
Death: $300K
TPD: $0K
Personal Accident: $100k
CI: $0K

3. Prulife Limited Pay

Start date: Aug 2011
Payable: $243.19/mth, paid by parents
Death: $100K (Whole Life)
TPD: $100K (42 yrs policy term)
CI: $100K (Crisis Cover Ltd Pay III - Whole Life)
Guaranteed at 65 yrs old: $51,486
Non-guaranteed at 65 yrs old at 3.75%: $30,266
Premium stop paying at 15th year
Surrender Value as of now: Between $5799 to $7531

Spoiler

4. Pruflexicash

Start date: Jun 2008
Payable: $133.969/mth, paid by parents
Policy term: 25 yrs
Death: $50K
TPD: $16K
CI: $0K
Guaranteed at 45 yrs old: $19,200
Non-guaranteed at 45 yrs old at 3.75%: $16,771
Premium stop paying at 25th year
Surrender Value as of now: Between $5.6K to 6.4K (cashback) + $1812 to $1986

Spoiler

5. Aviva MyRetirement

Start date: Sept 2012
Payable: $167/mth, paid by me
Policy term: 36 yrs
Premium Term: 21 yrs
Death: $0K
TPD: $0K
CI: $0K
Retirement income benefit: $500/mth (did not take out)
Guaranteed at 60 yrs old: $60K
Non-guaranteed at 60 yrs old at 3.75%: $28,939
Premium stop paying at 25th year
Surrender Value as of now: Between $1063-$1805

Spoiler

Spoiler

6. PruSelect vantage

Start date: Sept 2015
Payable: $750/mth, paid by me
Policy term: 20 yrs
Premium Term: 0 yrs
Death: $0K
TPD: $0K
CI: $0K
Retirement income benefit: $0/mth (did not take out)
Guaranteed at 47 yrs old: $0
Non-guaranteed at 47 yrs old at 4%: $202743
Premium stop paying at 20th year
Surrender Value as of now: Between $0

Spoiler

Funds:

AB FCP I - Global Value Portfolio Clss A SGD Hedge [1066] 15.00%
Aberdeen India Opportunities Fund [1003] 5.00%
Blackrock Global Funds - Asian Dragon Class A2 [1069] 15.00%
JPMorgan Funds - Emerging Markets LCY Debt Fund [1026] 15.00%
Schroder Emerging Markets Fund [1048] 15.00%
Schroder ISF China Opportunities [1050] 10.00%
Schroder Singapore Trust [1084] 25.00%

I may be planning to surrender #4 since the returns at 45 yrs old is projected around $37K.

What do you guys think and how to optimize it? If more info is required for each plan, do let me know and i will try to dig up info and edit first thread.

Thanks.

EDIT 1: added photos of the surrender portion.

 

[saffronsatire]

Good thread, i too am in a dilemma regarding endowment policies purchased by my mother. Any emotional aspect on your end, like your parents might be upset?

 

[shadow84]

Good thread, i too am in a dilemma regarding endowment policies purchased by my mother. Any emotional aspect on your end, like your parents might be upset?

I have talked to them about some of my policies that were discussed with my Pru agent and non-independent FA. My mum was somewhat slightly upset as she doesnt want to lose the $$ that was put in. Also, she has a concern that the agent might be asking me to cancel so that i can sign a new plan with more cuts going to their pockets.

She belongs to the old gen that believes in endowment plans as a safety net. I somewhat believe in it a little but i dun believe casting such a wide net. Resources can be better placed in investments but with higher risks?

Anyway, i have not told her i created a thread to ask on public opinions and shared my info with you all. But i predict she may throw a fit and would surely question on the knowledge of those ppl that gives reasonable answers. But thats for me to compile and present to her, no need show her the raw data.

 

[akwl88]

Jin jialat u so many policies

Your agent huat gao gao

1) figure out how much coverage u need

2) do u want to mix insurance with investment

3) ssb is a good saving product

 

[iperiodic]

I don't think you have to be too concerned. It's not as if the plans will incur a loss for you.

Would be good to include premium payment term for those plans that were not indicated? Also, if you may, you can provide your monthly nett income so we know how many % are going to the premiums?

Also, you can upload the benefit illustration for each plan so that people here can advise if it's good or when to drop the plan. BI is the page where it shows your guaranteed/non-guaranteed/effect of deduction. All those numbers.

As a bystander one person view, I would suggest you stop thinking of what plans to buy first, but like akwl said, how much coverage you need.

To summarise, with all these plans your coverages are:

Death: 500k
TPD: 166k
CI: 100k

Total Premiums Paid: $1377 rounded up

You can add these to your original post.

Personally TPD and CI seems a little low considering all the plans you have.

 

[Lewis.T]

Could you be looking at the wrong table for for #4? The numbers don't seem to add up. Try to see if you can find the table with the 'accumulate cash benefit' option rather than 'payout option'.

 

[shadow84]

Jin jialat u so many policies

Your agent huat gao gao

1) figure out how much coverage u need

2) do u want to mix insurance with investment

3) ssb is a good saving product

Actually, if you notice, almost half isnt paid by me yet. I only took over some. Will take over the rest slowly when my salary is higher though.

Most of the old prudential agents left le. Only the agent who sold me the Pruselect is my NS mate.

1. Not really sure on how to gauge the insurance coverage for myself but $300k to $500k for Death/TPD at least?

2. Nope, i read about this a few yrs back and had decided not to mix them. For the old plans, i LL since im not the one who started it. But for my future plans, i will separate.

3. I was reading about it this afternoon at work. It seems safe but average interest is low for 10 yrs? Inflation by then would have crept upwards?

 

[blurpandasg2014]

Below is a list of my current plans/insurance.Currently 29 yrs old by year, birthday is in Dec.

1. Great Eastern Junior 88 Plus (Whole Life)

Start date: Nov 1999
Payable: $69.91/mth, paid by me
Death: $50K
TPD: $50K
Living Assurance Benefit: $50K

2. SAF Aviva Group Term Plan
Start date: Jun 2009, should be the date that i enter NS
Payable: $13.37/mth, paid by me
Death: $300K
TPD: $0K
Personal Accident: $100k
CI: $0K

3. Prulife Limited Pay

Start date: Aug 2011
Payable: $243.19/mth, paid by parents
Death: $100K (Whole Life)
TPD: $100K (42 yrs policy term)
CI: $100K (Crisis Cover Ltd Pay III - Whole Life)
Guaranteed at 65 yrs old: $51,486
Non-guaranteed at 65 yrs old at 3.75%: $30,266
Premium stop paying at 15th year
Surrender Value as of now: Between $5799 to $7531

4. Pruflexicash

Start date: Jun 2008
Payable: $133.969/mth, paid by parents
Policy term: 25 yrs
Death: $50K
TPD: $16K
CI: $0K
Guaranteed at 45 yrs old: $19,200
Non-guaranteed at 45 yrs old at 3.75%: $16,771
Premium stop paying at 25th year
Surrender Value as of now: Between $5.6K to 6.4K (cashback) + $1812 to $1986

5. Aviva MyRetirement

Start date: Sept 2012
Payable: $167/mth, paid by me
Policy term: 36 yrs
Premium Term: 21 yrs
Death: $0K
TPD: $0K
CI: $0K
Retirement income benefit: $500/mth (did not take out)
Guaranteed at 60 yrs old: $60K
Non-guaranteed at 60 yrs old at 3.75%: $28,939
Premium stop paying at 25th year
Surrender Value as of now: Between $1063-$1805

6. PruSelect vantage

Start date: Sept 2015
Payable: $750/mth, paid by me
Policy term: 20 yrs
Premium Term: 0 yrs
Death: $0K
TPD: $0K
CI: $0K
Retirement income benefit: $0/mth (did not take out)
Guaranteed at 47 yrs old: $0
Non-guaranteed at 47 yrs old at 4%: $202743
Premium stop paying at 20th year
Surrender Value as of now: Between $0

Funds:



I may be planning to surrender #4 since the returns at 45 yrs old is projected around $37K.

What do you guys think and how to optimize it? If more info is required for each plan, do let me know and i will try to dig up info and edit first thread.

Thanks.

Ur pruflexi I think can jus surrender. No point keeping such lousy plan. Or mayb can partial withdraw to fund the yearly premiums.

Pruvantage like most ppl have mentioned that now surrender no cash value. Since u have it less den 2yrs best to cut asap. GE plan return shld be quite good so can keep.

May I ask, how come u so young already apply retirement plan? How is the return for that plan

 

[iperiodic]

Actually, if you notice, almost half isnt paid by me yet. I only took over some. Will take over the rest slowly when my salary is higher though.

Most of the old prudential agents left le. Only the agent who sold me the Pruselect is my NS mate.

1. Not really sure on how to gauge the insurance coverage for myself but $300k to $500k for Death/TPD at least?

2. Nope, i read about this a few yrs back and had decided not to mix them. For the old plans, i LL since im not the one who started it. But for my future plans, i will separate.

3. I was reading about it this afternoon at work. It seems safe but average interest is low for 10 yrs? Inflation by then would have crept upwards?

1) That's a good number, but my CI i put at 300k.

2) We'll see what should/should not be cut.

3) 'Inflationis 2.6% in Singapore.' That's probably the number agents have been using to tell you their plans can beat inflation. That's the historical rate. yoy rate is only 0.7%

It doesn't matter who's paying for it or not. If you are the beneficiary of the plan, you should be responsible to assess if these plans are good.

Pruvantage honestly the funds isn't that good because I believe they are underlying funds (correct me if I'm wrong). Personally if you stop it now, your agent doesnt lose out in commissions cos first 2 years the comission the greatest, 3rd adn 4th i think only 5% or so, someone can confirm if possible. Secondly your mum definitely won't be pleased knowing 18k in is completely gone. 2 ways, if you value your liquidity, bite the bullet and terminate it. Or else, just pay till the end, because seeing your posts in the other thread, it seems that you may not be interested to do your own passive investing. Provided the funds make a 4.75% (maybe higher) returns every year, you will at least break even. But 100k now and 100k then, valuation is different alr. Like a lot of people said, a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow.

 

[Lewis.T]

Ur pruflexi I think can jus surrender. No point keeping such lousy plan. Or mayb can partial withdraw to fund the yearly premiums.

Pruvantage like most ppl have mentioned that now surrender no cash value. Since u have it less den 2yrs best to cut asap. GE plan return shld be quite good so can keep.

May I ask, how come u so young already apply retirement plan? How is the return for that plan

To the TS, I assume by Pruvantage you mean Pruselect Vantage?

I think your Pruvantage advice may be unsound. You're asking him to take a loss of $14250 to invest elsewhere?

If he's confident as an investor to beat PSV's returns after charges and earn back his $14250 then by all means go ahead, but if not why not stick with it?

$14250 is not a sunk cost for this case, unlike endowments or WL.

 

[shadow84]

Ur pruflexi I think can jus surrender. No point keeping such lousy plan. Or mayb can partial withdraw to fund the yearly premiums.

Pruvantage like most ppl have mentioned that now surrender no cash value. Since u have it less den 2yrs best to cut asap. GE plan return shld be quite good so can keep.

May I ask, how come u so young already apply retirement plan? How is the return for that plan

For Pruflexi, my mum agree that the returns isnt that great and may cancel it.

At that time after ORD, i wanted to force myself to save. So, my mum recommended me that Aviva MyRetirement plan, or maybe she approached the MDRT agent and she recommended that.

1) That's a good number, but my CI i put at 300k.

2) We'll see what should/should not be cut.

3) 'Inflationis 2.6% in Singapore.' That's probably the number agents have been using to tell you their plans can beat inflation. That's the historical rate. yoy rate is only 0.7%

It doesn't matter who's paying for it or not. If you are the beneficiary of the plan, you should be responsible to assess if these plans are good.

Pruvantage honestly the funds isn't that good because I believe they are underlying funds (correct me if I'm wrong). Personally if you stop it now, your agent doesnt lose out in commissions cos first 2 years the comission the greatest, 3rd adn 4th i think only 5% or so, someone can confirm if possible. Secondly your mum definitely won't be pleased knowing 18k in is completely gone. 2 ways, if you value your liquidity, bite the bullet and terminate it. Or else, just pay till the end. Provided the funds make a 4.75% (maybe higher) returns every year, you will at least break even. But 100k now and 100k then, valuation is different alr. Like a lot of people said, a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow.

For death/TPD/CI, do i need to change my SAF aviva plan or just keep it?

As for pruvantage, i saw that after 2nd yr (25th month onwards), i would get back 30%. But im still holding on with the option of staying through though to at least breakeven.

 

[akwl88]

Actually, if you notice, almost half isnt paid by me yet. I only took over some. Will take over the rest slowly when my salary is higher though.

Most of the old prudential agents left le. Only the agent who sold me the Pruselect is my NS mate.

1. Not really sure on how to gauge the insurance coverage for myself but $300k to $500k for Death/TPD at least?

2. Nope, i read about this a few yrs back and had decided not to mix them. For the old plans, i LL since im not the one who started it. But for my future plans, i will separate.

3. I was reading about it this afternoon at work. It seems safe but average interest is low for 10 yrs? Inflation by then would have crept upwards?

1) for a gauage, 500k coverage for death and tpd, 200k for ci. Maybe cost ard 1k plus per year for term till 65. Depends on ur entry age

2) ok

3) ssb is for savings, not investment. A better alternative to endowment and bank int

 

[iperiodic]

For Pruflexi, my mum agree that the returns isnt that great and may cancel it.

At that time after ORD, i wanted to force myself to save. So, my mum recommended me that Aviva MyRetirement plan, or maybe she approached the MDRT agent and she recommended that.



For death/TPD/CI, do i need to change my SAF aviva plan or just keep it?

As for pruvantage, i saw that after 2nd yr (25th month onwards), i would get back 30%. But im still holding on with the option of staying through though to at least breakeven.

up to you, coverage is a personal thing. I don't know about the plans you need to bring up your TPD and CI, the FAs here can advise on that.

I have no experience in stocks whatsoever, but if I had your plans, I would consider if I can get back the money I lost first before cancelling anything. Eg, if I give up pruflexi now, how much capital would I lose? Can I earn it back in the future by passive investing etc? If not, maybe it's better to leave it inside.

Don't cancel just because the returns are not as great as you think. If you don't like to manage your own wealth, such plans are not that bad. If you want to take control of your investments, learn slowly and recover. You not old also.

 

[shadow84]

1) for a gauage, 500k coverage for death and tpd, 200k for ci. Maybe cost ard 1k plus per year for term till 65. Depends on ur entry age

2) ok

3) ssb is for savings, not investment. A better alternative to endowment and bank int

1. The other FA recommended me aviva de at $74/mth with $500k death/tpd but no CI. Perhaps i can approach aviva directly for a quote based on your gauge or lower? Then maybe cancel saf de.

3. My apologies, yeah i read in other thread its more of savings than investment coz it can be taken out. But at $500/mth, i can only try this after i get a new job with higher pay.

My goal is to save $1k min a month. But after accumulating savings for 3.5 yrs ( not much coz i do spend as well), i was thinking of going med risk by saving via investments rather than leave in bank at 1.85% - ocbc 360.

 

[Darkzi0n]

insane... 1.3k on insurance premium per month...

 

[blurpandasg2014]

1. The other FA recommended me aviva de at $74/mth with $500k death/tpd but no CI. Perhaps i can approach aviva directly for a quote based on your gauge or lower? Then maybe cancel saf de.

3. My apologies, yeah i read in other thread its more of savings than investment coz it can be taken out. But at $500/mth, i can only try this after i get a new job with higher pay.

My goal is to save $1k min a month. But after accumulating savings for 3.5 yrs ( not much coz i do spend as well), i was thinking of going med risk by saving via investments rather than leave in bank at 1.85% - ocbc 360.

Do not cancel yr saf aviva. It is a very cheap plan. If u wan to compare insurance, u can go to www.comparefirst.sg

Can compare rates from different insurers. As for ssb, u don't have to put in monthly. What I do is I put aside some money until I have abt 3-5k before putting in lump sum

 

[iperiodic]

1. The other FA recommended me aviva de at $74/mth with $500k death/tpd but no CI. Perhaps i can approach aviva directly for a quote based on your gauge or lower? Then maybe cancel saf de.

3. My apologies, yeah i read in other thread its more of savings than investment coz it can be taken out. But at $500/mth, i can only try this after i get a new job with higher pay.

My goal is to save $1k min a month. But after accumulating savings for 3.5 yrs ( not much coz i do spend as well), i was thinking of going med risk by saving via investments rather than leave in bank at 1.85% - ocbc 360.

If you don't have a job now, use ur emergency funds to tide first, get a job and confirm how much you are able to afford on these premiums. What you CAN afford doesn't equate to what you MUST afford. I can afford a $10 laksa, but I would want to pay only $3 for it. Same goes for premiums. I can afford 1k in premiums, but it's better to pay 500$ only.

I am earning 3.5 a month and I find it difficult to even save 1k cash a month.

And please never ever cancel your SAF Aviva term, it is the cheapest and the best you can find.

My personal tip for you, don't think of what you are missing yet, even if you delay a month or two it doesn't affect, focus on what you should cut down. Haven sort out your plans you got intention to get another, like that you very hard to make a plan.

 

[shadow84]

Do not cancel yr saf aviva. It is a very cheap plan. If u wan to compare insurance, u can go to www.comparefirst.sg

Can compare rates from different insurers. As for ssb, u don't have to put in monthly. What I do is I put aside some money until I have abt 3-5k before putting in lump sum

For ssb, i can put in lump sum of $xxxx for 10 yrs period and lock in the interest rate mentioned in table? But how to know which ETF to put in since each mth will change?

 

[shadow84]

If you don't have a job now, use ur emergency funds to tide first, get a job and confirm how much you are able to afford on these premiums. What you CAN afford doesn't equate to what you MUST afford. I can afford a $10 laksa, but I would want to pay only $3 for it. Same goes for premiums. I can afford 1k in premiums, but it's better to pay 500$ only.

I am earning 3.5 a month and I find it difficult to even save 1k cash a month.

And please never ever cancel your SAF Aviva term, it is the cheapest and the best you can find.

My personal tip for you, don't think of what you are missing yet, even if you delay a month or two it doesn't affect, focus on what you should cut down. Haven sort out your plans you got intention to get another, like that you very hard to make a plan.

I am holding a job currently so i can still hold out.

Noted on your advice for last statement and for aviva.

 

[blurpandasg2014]

For ssb, i can put in lump sum of $xxxx for 10 yrs period and lock in the interest rate mentioned in table? But how to know which ETF to put in since each mth will change?

Yes you can invest $xxxx and lock in the rate. Personally, for current interest rate environment, anything abv 2.4% I will put.

Having said that, u should have sufficient funds in ur ocbc360 before putting into ssb.