Htl sofa review

PsyClick

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Was awed by one of htl leather sofa in Kaki Bukit. Apparently the leather belongs to the top range of leather, looked really tempting except for the price tag.

Hence asking for reviews of htl sofas, regardless fabric or leather, Recliner or normal sofas. Thanks in advance!

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cheongking888

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I bought HTL full leather 3 + 2 seater since 2008. The leather has aged. But colour is still well maintain.

HTL previously is called Hwa Ta Lee. My brother's sofa is 23 years liao. Still going strong.
 

PsyClick

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I bought HTL full leather 3 + 2 seater since 2008. The leather has aged. But colour is still well maintain.

HTL previously is called Hwa Ta Lee. My brother's sofa is 23 years liao. Still going strong.
23 years is insane. Seems like it's much more justified for the price.. Still welcome more comments and feedback thanks!

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TheOne

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I actually interviewed the owners a long while back as part of some national enterprise survey. Surprised to know that we had such a strong international player in the furniture industry. They are one of the WORLD'S largest sofa manufacturers, yes world not just sg. Have never heard anyone who bought their stuff complain.
 

ramza85

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I actually interviewed the owners a long while back as part of some national enterprise survey. Surprised to know that we had such a strong international player in the furniture industry. They are one of the WORLD'S largest sofa manufacturers, yes world not just sg. Have never heard anyone who bought their stuff complain.

Was just doing a search about my favourite sofa brand and ended up here.
I worked for them as a part-time showroom marketing assistant in 2004-2005. The main job is really just manual labour of moving sofas with price tags between $20k and $80k, we were super careful moving them as we still want to keep our kidneys.
Back then their sofa can't be bought in Singapore unless there's a warehouse sales.
My uncle got a sofa that lasted until today from a CNY warehouse sales in 2005.
Damn comfy, leather faded but still reclining well. That's quality.

When working there my friends and I learnt that they were a big deal and they were one of the OG Singapore legendary companies. I just read about their recent years financial woes and drama, and I am so glad that they got thru.

I found a website that kind of use their HTL name called homestolife.com, and after much research I'm certain that it's them.
Not much local companies sell $24k L-shape sofa like that (Those were a nightmare to move).

Gonna be buying from them soon.

They have been around for bloody long and is damn famous overseas in the luxury sofa market. I'm sured that their sofa quality will not drop, because the founders are still involved with the business.

All chinese man that age group same same one, super bias with their first born. Lol.
 

Chevalier

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Was just doing a search about my favourite sofa brand and ended up here.
I worked for them as a part-time showroom marketing assistant in 2004-2005. The main job is really just manual labour of moving sofas with price tags between $20k and $80k, we were super careful moving them as we still want to keep our kidneys.
Back then their sofa can't be bought in Singapore unless there's a warehouse sales.
My uncle got a sofa that lasted until today from a CNY warehouse sales in 2005.
Damn comfy, leather faded but still reclining well. That's quality.

When working there my friends and I learnt that they were a big deal and they were one of the OG Singapore legendary companies. I just read about their recent years financial woes and drama, and I am so glad that they got thru.

I found a website that kind of use their HTL name called homestolife.com, and after much research I'm certain that it's them.
Not much local companies sell $24k L-shape sofa like that (Those were a nightmare to move).

Gonna be buying from them soon.

They have been around for bloody long and is damn famous overseas in the luxury sofa market. I'm sured that their sofa quality will not drop, because the founders are still involved with the business.

All chinese man that age group same same one, super bias with their first born. Lol.
I literally just bought my sofa from HomesToLife at marina square on sunday.

im glad to know that the brand is such a big player in the industry.
 

insecure

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I literally just bought my sofa from HomesToLife at marina square on sunday.

im glad to know that the brand is such a big player in the industry.
After looking thru the lowest reviews on their Google business profile listing, I will avoid them. If buying good leather sofa, always go for full grain aniline leather (with certification) and warranty on wooden frame structure, request them to turn over the sofa and inspect the bottom structure (must be spring and belt), ask about the foam used, skip half-leather sofa because of diff rate of discolouring of leather & PVC. I narrowed down 2 stores: CODA and Casa Concetto.
 

Chevalier

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After looking thru the lowest reviews on their Google business profile listing, I will avoid them. If buying good leather sofa, always go for full grain aniline leather (with certification) and warranty on wooden frame structure, request them to turn over the sofa and inspect the bottom structure (must be spring and belt), ask about the foam used, skip half-leather sofa because of diff rate of discolouring of leather & PVC. I narrowed down 2 stores: CODA and Casa Concetto.
fortunately I did most of that! the one I got is full leather with warranty. I didn't go to the extent of turning it over and the structure is indeed under warranty as well.

google reviews don't say a lot, I actually went to carousell to see if people sold their sofas and the condition its in after years. True enough, there were plenty on sale, many of which are years old and still in great condition from the pics.

if they were truly terrible, they wouldn't have survived all this time or even open their own shopfront :)

on that note, I did go to CODA and Casa Concetto but didn't find anything that my wife and I liked. didn't speak to my butt. =X
 

elvintay07

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I used only HTL recliner but I bought them at deep discount. If the price is $4-5k, then I don’t think it is worth.
 

insecure

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fortunately I did most of that! the one I got is full leather with warranty. I didn't go to the extent of turning it over and the structure is indeed under warranty as well.

google reviews don't say a lot, I actually went to carousell to see if people sold their sofas and the condition its in after years. True enough, there were plenty on sale, many of which are years old and still in great condition from the pics.

if they were truly terrible, they wouldn't have survived all this time or even open their own shopfront :)

on that note, I did go to CODA and Casa Concetto but didn't find anything that my wife and I liked. didn't speak to my butt. =X
You can filter out the good (fake) reviews and look for bad ones - these are the true complaints from real owners. :)
 

Chevalier

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You can filter out the good (fake) reviews and look for bad ones - these are the true complaints from real owners. :)
haha ship has sailed, ive already made my order and quite happy with it.

after buying, turns out that 3 of my friends got their sofas from HTL too and they have been happy.

will share my experience after 5 years =X
 

ramza85

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After looking thru the lowest reviews on their Google business profile listing, I will avoid them. If buying good leather sofa, always go for full grain aniline leather (with certification) and warranty on wooden frame structure, request them to turn over the sofa and inspect the bottom structure (must be spring and belt), ask about the foam used, skip half-leather sofa because of diff rate of discolouring of leather & PVC. I narrowed down 2 stores: CODA and Casa Concetto.
LOL. Just went to take a look at the review. Seems like it is just a handful of unhappy customer. Plus they don't really know what they are paying for. The one with discolored leather sofa, one look also can tell it is never treat/protect the leather regularly and then something spilled on it.

The amount of people who are happy with Hwa Tat Lee sofas greatly outweighs.
Use some common sense and think, how can a Full Grain Leather sofa be $2-3k?

Base on your post I can tell that you know a little about leather sofa.
Ya, Full Grain Leather got cert one. They will even give you the very same leather that was used to make the sofa as a souvenir for you to recolour the sofa when it gets old.

I am sure that in order to make those cheaper leather sofa they did what the HTL leather uncle told us to avoid, split leathers, bicast, and bonded leathers.
But hor, 2-3k for split leathers 3 seater is still consider reasonable price. It may very well be the third cuts of a hide but it is still real quality leather. Split leather are regularly used for the trims and back of a sofa to save cost.

Bicast or Bond leather on the other hand are still consider GENUINE leather! Some black hearted sales man will even lie that it is real leather when it is really 50% plastic. They are the cheapest in the market, those $1k++ leather sofa all use this group of leather.

Chance are those people bought a Bicast or Bond leather sofa thinking that it is a Top Grain leather sofa.

By my estimation, a Real Full Grain Leather L-shape sofa should cost around $20k at retail price now?
A Top Grain Leather L-shape sofa should be around $15k now?
I used VPN to google in the UK, USA and Germany to study abit the Full Grain Leather sofa prices there.

When I was at HTL in 2004 the cheapest of the Full Grain Leather sofa they had in the showroom starts from $3k. It was a very small couple sofa. Taking in inflation, the price should be above $4k now.

You know during that 2005 HTL CNY warehouse sales, the average price were around $6k for a L-shape sofa, which I think was at 50% discount.

Home2life seems to be their budget sofa outlet. I am sure all those people who complained are not smart about leather sofa. $3-4k for a high quality leather sofa from a budget outlet is impossible. I guess to earn money they are doing some not so good things, letting sales people hard sell to ignorant people.

I am not trying to defend HTL. Just that people need to know what they are paying for.
Different product have different mark up to sustain the business, I am not gonna reveal the profit margin here, but just so you know it's a very profitable business.
Gone are the days where they sell their top sofa at huge discount, their SG warehouse at Jurong is no more.
So no CNY sales for us.

TLDR version: Those people leaving review on Google are angry that they were conned by sales talk. You play for what you get. Always go for quality.
 

ramza85

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I used only HTL recliner but I bought them at deep discount. If the price is $4-5k, then I don’t think it is worth.
Oh how much you got them? How long ago was it?
Last time their CNY sales was at Gul road in Jurong.

Do they still do clear stock CNY sales??
 

lousylah

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I am not trying to defend HTL. Just that people need to know what they are paying for.
Different product have different mark up to sustain the business, I am not gonna reveal the profit margin here, but just so you know it's a very profitable business.
Gone are the days where they sell their top sofa at huge discount, their SG warehouse at Jurong is no more.
So no CNY sales for us.

TLDR version: Those people leaving review on Google are angry that they were conned by sales talk. You play for what you get. Always go for quality.

“Standard” mark up for furniture in SG is in excess of 100% (yes more than double, 2X). Thats why all the ah bang, ah beng salesman at courts, harvey can offer ridiculous level of discount like 40-50% and still earn comms.

castlery and commune disrupting that model abit by narrowing the markup and only offering minor discount (5%, 10%) during sale, “new” customer offer, etc. also their designs more modern and trendy so relying less on being budget.

there are of course outright budget brand/store like fortytwo.sg or many young homeowners buying direct from TB.
 

elvintay07

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“Standard” mark up for furniture in SG is in excess of 100% (yes more than double, 2X). Thats why all the ah bang, ah beng salesman at courts, harvey can offer ridiculous level of discount like 40-50% and still earn comms.

castlery and commune disrupting that model abit by narrowing the markup and only offering minor discount (5%, 10%) during sale, “new” customer offer, etc. also their designs more modern and trendy so relying less on being budget.

there are of course outright budget brand/store like fortytwo.sg or many young homeowners buying direct from TB.
How good is taobao quality?
 

ramza85

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Hahaha I share some knowledge that I learn in 2005.

Leather is sold by m²/sqft, they are not really THAT expensive. But they are not cheap also.
I know where to get some really good leather at $400/m². But MOQ is 100m² for some weight.
HTL used to have a leather tannery in Singapore. Hahaha I guess manpower & rent cost here too high.
They used to make 100-500 sets per model back then. Lesser for the really high end one ($80-120k).

So what you are really repaying for on top of the leather is their patented design, leather workmanship, storage and transportation costing.

They were the OEM for many Europeans brand since 90s, so don't be surprise if you found out that your really expensive sofa was from one of their factory.

Oh Taobao? All I can say it the age old saying, "Good, fast, cheap - pick two. You can never have all three."

Btw all wood product can be risky. Many thing have formaldehyde and Volatile Organic Compounds.
They can market all the lies and you will only know when the product is received.
So... Buy those at your own risk.
 

lousylah

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Since this is a HTL thread :

https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/co...a-maker-htl-files-insolvency-protection-cites

So HTL was sold to PRC company (Yihua) in 2016 for 400mil but in 2020 right after the first set of covid lock-down in china, HTL ran into trouble. furniture manufacturing in china stopped, customers stopped/delayed payments since goods were not delivered. DBS and other banks then asked for full repayment of loans, the Phuas (HTL management) asked china parent for help but none came so HTL declared bankrupt (BT article).

fast forward to 2022 the Phua brothers (founders of Hwa Tat Lee) bought back the insolvent company for 100mil despite a “mystery” HK company offering to better any offer from the Phuas by 10mil. Yihua (PRC owners before bankruptcy) sued to challenge the sale but lost the case.

so the Phua family pocketed 300mil from the PRC company while “retaining” the company. :LOL:

…and yes it confirms the manufacturing is now mostly (or entirely) done in china, no longer in Singapore. Is the quality same now as the legendary Hwa Tat Lee? 🤷‍♂️

P.S. they will expand manufacturing to Chennai :eek: while pushing sales in India market with up to 10 stores

https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...niture-in-india/amp_articleshow/109961278.cms
 
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lousylah

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Oh how much you got them? How long ago was it?
Last time their CNY sales was at Gul road in Jurong.

Do they still do clear stock CNY sales??
Yes, they have a “warehouse outlet” at tagore :

https://homestolife.com/blogs/news/best-sofa-and-furniture-deals

Hahaha I share some knowledge that I learn in 2005.

Leather is sold by m²/sqft, they are not really THAT expensive. But they are not cheap also.
I know where to get some really good leather at $400/m². But MOQ is 100m² for some weight.

HTL used to have a leather tannery in Singapore. Hahaha I guess manpower & rent cost here too high.

Their tannery was Hwa Tat Lee Leather Pte Ltd renamed HTL Leather Pte Ltd before latest rename to Homestolife Pte Ltd. So indeed no more tannery in singapore, based on other sources their tanneries (at least 2) are in china.

https://www.companies.sg/business/198904163Z/HOMESTOLIFE-PTE-LTD-#new
 

Chevalier

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great info.

Fact of the matter is, folks comparing prodcuts, be it sofa or hifi or something else to products from the 90s,00's will be disappointed la. The quality from yesteryear is tok kong, plenty made in house. Nowadays, lots of it made in china and QC\QA is questionable.

If you really want products made in house by the manufacturer, "proudly made in the USA" or "made in europe", you gotta pay to play.

if the sofa i got from HTL lasts 5-10 years, i'll be happy. So far, my friends who have bought in the last 10 years are still using it happily.
 
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