Human Resources FAQ

[sacrificium]

Today is Labour Day and I was given 2 choices yesterday...​

They asked me to choose whether to be terminated with immediate effect, or volunteer to resign and be given 1 month garden leave.

I'm still on probation and it supposedly ends in June. But for the past few months there's been quite a lot of friction with the people in power and that is why I'm getting kicked out. But actually the friction only exist within the direct/adjacent team, and I believe it is just this few people who are incompetent, incapable and not up for the challenge that I'm having sparks fly with. Because, I've been consistently opposing their 'established' (aka legacy, outdated, inefficient) ways of working, and proposing newer, better ways that can benefit not just me, but everyone else, if they are willing to adopt it and make it the new SOP. I'm doing that because that is what I would have done by default (just based on my character) anyway, and also because that is what the leadership/higher management has been advocating/pushing for.

"Everyone should have the courage and grit/persistence to not settle for mediocrity and bureaucracy"
That is a quote from one of the senior leader that I'm trying to live by, but it's just real sad that the "mediocrity and bureaucracy" happens to be the middle management that is managing me, which lead to the current situation of me getting the boot. They are just unreceptive and unwilling to change, citing "there's no need to reinvent the wheel" as an excuse for inaction. And when I try to "motivate" them to budge, they get upset and tell me to just follow their silly old ways instead. I have asked for a reason, multiple times actually, but even after that they still can't give a reason for that necessity (of using "their way") and why they are so insistent about it.

So I refused to bow to that nonsense, and they used that point as a show non-compliance/defiance to get me in trouble.

Happy Labour Day!?

Take the garden leave.

 

[Irenicis]

Company claimed that the person has mental health and is affecting the person’s work? I don’t think companies can do that without getting employees to be certified by a doctor.

Nope. I meant that the person's work performance is bad and the company wants to terminate her. However, she went to say that she has mental health issues and thus the company is afraid of firing her due to that.

 

[sacrificium]

Nope. I meant that the person's work performance is bad and the company wants to terminate her. However, she went to say that she has mental health issues and thus the company is afraid of firing her due to that.

The company would be dumb, like that anyone can claim that they have mental health issue. The coy is setting bad precedence for others. Next time all lie flat in office and claim mental health, let boss do the work. Don’t think there’s any issue for you to terminate that staff.

Anyway if the staff is sick and can’t perform the tasks, it might be ground for termination as the coy needs a person that can perform the required tasks. Some staff take sabbatical leave to have breaks during their career.

 

[Sylar22]

Today is Labour Day and I was given 2 choices yesterday...​

They asked me to choose whether to be terminated with immediate effect, or volunteer to resign and be given 1 month garden leave.

I'm still on probation and it supposedly ends in June. But for the past few months there's been quite a lot of friction with the people in power and that is why I'm getting kicked out. But actually the friction only exist within the direct/adjacent team, and I believe it is just this few people who are incompetent, incapable and not up for the challenge that I'm having sparks fly with. Because, I've been consistently opposing their 'established' (aka legacy, outdated, inefficient) ways of working, and proposing newer, better ways that can benefit not just me, but everyone else, if they are willing to adopt it and make it the new SOP. I'm doing that because that is what I would have done by default (just based on my character) anyway, and also because that is what the leadership/higher management has been advocating/pushing for.

"Everyone should have the courage and grit/persistence to not settle for mediocrity and bureaucracy"
That is a quote from one of the senior leader that I'm trying to live by, but it's just real sad that the "mediocrity and bureaucracy" happens to be the middle management that is managing me, which lead to the current situation of me getting the boot. They are just unreceptive and unwilling to change, citing "there's no need to reinvent the wheel" as an excuse for inaction. And when I try to "motivate" them to budge, they get upset and tell me to just follow their silly old ways instead. I have asked for a reason, multiple times actually, but even after that they still can't give a reason for that necessity (of using "their way") and why they are so insistent about it.

So I refused to bow to that nonsense, and they used that point as a show non-compliance/defiance to get me in trouble.

Happy Labour Day!?

I have learnt to LLST and not resist and go against the flow. Nothing good will come out of it

 

[dango_daikazoku]

because under MOM reservist is not consider as notice period.
If i tender on 26th june, will kena my reservist and my company can make me work 2 more weeks to pay back, which overlap my new job starting in 1st august.

if i tender too early like 16th 17th 18th, my company can choose to "pay me to shorten my notice period" so they dont pay me for entire reservist period.

so its kinda suck depend on my company want to play out now.

technically the most ideal situation is i tender on 16th june, then last working day hit 15th july which is first day of my reservist period. so they need push back my last working day to 29th. but it seem my company dont want, they rather pay me 1 extra day to shorten it.

dont understand, ultimately its just 1 day = $x , just calculate accordingly to total number of days. What's the diff?

 

[dango_daikazoku]

Today is Labour Day and I was given 2 choices yesterday...​

They asked me to choose whether to be terminated with immediate effect, or volunteer to resign and be given 1 month garden leave.

I'm still on probation and it supposedly ends in June. But for the past few months there's been quite a lot of friction with the people in power and that is why I'm getting kicked out. But actually the friction only exist within the direct/adjacent team, and I believe it is just this few people who are incompetent, incapable and not up for the challenge that I'm having sparks fly with. Because, I've been consistently opposing their 'established' (aka legacy, outdated, inefficient) ways of working, and proposing newer, better ways that can benefit not just me, but everyone else, if they are willing to adopt it and make it the new SOP. I'm doing that because that is what I would have done by default (just based on my character) anyway, and also because that is what the leadership/higher management has been advocating/pushing for.

"Everyone should have the courage and grit/persistence to not settle for mediocrity and bureaucracy"
That is a quote from one of the senior leader that I'm trying to live by, but it's just real sad that the "mediocrity and bureaucracy" happens to be the middle management that is managing me, which lead to the current situation of me getting the boot. They are just unreceptive and unwilling to change, citing "there's no need to reinvent the wheel" as an excuse for inaction. And when I try to "motivate" them to budge, they get upset and tell me to just follow their silly old ways instead. I have asked for a reason, multiple times actually, but even after that they still can't give a reason for that necessity (of using "their way") and why they are so insistent about it.

So I refused to bow to that nonsense, and they used that point as a show non-compliance/defiance to get me in trouble.

Happy Labour Day!?

Come to think of it, you know why they even bother to give you a choice? They could have just terminated you right away, right?

Is it you got something that they want you to keep quite about, so they pretend to be nice to you and give garden leave, so can use the 1 month salary to hold you ransom and buy time?

 

[Nightscapez]

dont understand, ultimately its just 1 day = $x , just calculate accordingly to total number of days. What's the diff?

the different is
if they shorten my notice and pay me the 3 extra day, means i cannot get company salary during reservist.
and also after calculation, 31st july if is my last working day, i got 1 day extra annual leave after pro rated.

reservist = 14 days, means got 11day i got rank pay + 1 less pro rated annual leave encash.

 

[BuffBuffForevaAttached]

Take the garden leave.

Of course, but its like got choice but actually no choice.

I have learnt to LLST and not resist and go against the flow. Nothing good will come out of it

ok...

In chinese this is called 明哲保身(https://dictionary.writtenchinese.com/worddetail/mingzhebaoshen/219691/2/2), which honestly is a rather cowardly move that many have learned to adopt out of fear, and maybe the local culture instilled by the system.

It is a huge reason why things can't change for the better and people are suffering for whatever.

Come to think of it, you know why they even bother to give you a choice? They could have just terminated you right away, right?

Is it you got something that they want you to keep quite about, so they pretend to be nice to you and give garden leave, so can use the 1 month salary to hold you ransom and buy time?

Good question. I won't say it's not possible actually. I do have a lot of things that can go viral on glassdoor, #quittok etc.

 

[sacrificium]

Of course, but its like got choice but actually no choice.


ok...



Good question. I won't say it's not possible actually. I do have a lot of things that can go viral on glassdoor, #quittok etc.

Anyway since you are on probation, taking that one month garden leave seems like no loss. Just that need to diligently look for job. Anyway, they can always choose not to pass your probation. Office politics is unavoidable and collateral damage is very common. Accept it as part and parcel of life and move on. I have seen so many instances of collateral damages that I am numbed to it.

 

[sacrificium]

Yes, either employer or employee can terminate the employment at the end of the probation period.

This can be done by:

• Serving the required notice period stated in contract or mutual agreement with the company.
  OR
• Compensate the other party with salary in lieu.

https://www.mom.gov.sg/faq/termination/can-i-terminate-employment-at-the-end-of-a-probation-period

 

[BuffBuffForevaAttached]

Anyway since you are on probation, taking that one month garden leave seems like no loss. Just that need to diligently look for job. Anyway, they can always choose not to pass your probation. Office politics is unavoidable and collateral damage is very common. Accept it as part and parcel of life and move on. I have seen so many instances of collateral damages that I am numbed to it.

Not quite true. I had a joining bonus equivalent to 1 month pay that got clawed back because the terms for that is that I must stay for at least 1 year. So essentially you can say my garden leave is unpaid, and I'm still surviving on savings until I get the next job.

 

[sacrificium]

For managers and executives: If you were dismissed with notice or salary in lieu of notice, you can only file a wrongful dismissal claim if you have served your employer for at least 6 months.

https://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practices/termination-of-employment/wrongful-dismissal

 

[sacrificium]

For managers and executives: If you were dismissed with notice or salary in lieu of notice, you can only file a wrongful dismissal claim if you have served your employer for at least 6 months.

https://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practices/termination-of-employment/wrongful-dismissal

Does this apply to you?

 

[BuffBuffForevaAttached]

Does this apply to you?

Technically the garden leave was paid, but minus off due to claw back, become nothing. I only served about 5months. Maybe they want to avoid the 6month thing so they had to kick me out before I can fulfill that criteria?

 

[ZETMAN]

Of course my logic says this is BS, that's why I'm asking for opinions here.

The coy's logic says this :
Liable to pay a sum equal to One (01) month salary being a genuine pre-estimate of the loss the Company will suffer on the basis of a reasonable amount of time, effort and costs invested on you as a part of our elaborate and strategic training program for your employment with the Company, in addition to serving the One (01) month Notice Period after the probation period or one (01) month notice during the probation period .

I dont get it. the notice period is 1 month or what?

Why is this phrase in such a manner that make it seems like a 1 month notice + 1 month salary? this seems to be camouflaging the 2 months notice under 1 month guise and requiring u to buy urself out of the next month.

I will probably push this to TAFEP or MOM for clarification as I highly doubt that this makes any sense.

 

[ZETMAN]

Nope. I meant that the person's work performance is bad and the company wants to terminate her. However, she went to say that she has mental health issues and thus the company is afraid of firing her due to that.

easy. put her through PIP and set measurable KPIs. The citation of mental health has little to no corresponding factor on the requirement of the role whether it is certifiable by medical professional or not.

It might sound cruel and callous but personal issue has nothing to do with the company. If the company wants to be compassionate, it can give some allowance but if it decides to go book by book, there is nothing wrong either.

if the person claims having mental distress, the supervisor should have a conversation to understand the situation. Certain mental distress is self generated by the employee due to their incapacity. If they are unable to do it, then it falls to other more able employee(s) to pick up the tab. Is it fair for other employee(s)?

If the mental health issue is certifiable by medical professional, then the employee shld move on to nurture their mental health. Nobody has the responsibility to help pick up the tab and the missing performance for this troubled employee indefinitely. They can help a while out off good will, but everyone else is also working for their salary to bring the dough home, they shld not be subjected to moral ransom of being forced to do a 5 person's job with a 4 person team just because the 5th person is forever unable to step up to the role.

I recently had a somewhat similar topic during my dept meeting on this topic about performance of employees and measurable aspect. one of the colleague was citing that the poor performance of an employee can be due to poor work rs with the manager and they shld be given opportunity to explore other roles in the company and company has obligation to help them if there are reasons contributing to poor performance. I retorted that this is a frivolous approach by speculation and a poor performer can come up with countless reason why they doesnt perform well in their role and if company has to go all out to solve all their problem, why dont we try to mediate with Israel and Palestine as well as ukraine and russia to stop the war first. by trying to stretch our length beyond the reach and lending strength to the countless possible reasons/excuses, why not simplify things and just accept that they are not performing at their role due to lack of ability instead of trying to fill in the blanks and finding an excuse for them to self glorify our own moral compass.

 

[dango_daikazoku]

I dont get it. the notice period is 1 month or what?

Why is this phrase in such a manner that make it seems like a 1 month notice + 1 month salary? this seems to be camouflaging the 2 months notice under 1 month guise and requiring u to buy urself out of the next month.

I will probably push this to TAFEP or MOM for clarification as I highly doubt that this makes any sense.

My interpretation is same as you. But even if I push this to TAFEP or MOM for clarification, what can/will they possibly do? If they can really make an impact, I don't mind notifying them of this bad actor company and protecting the future candidates from their BS, but i'm not really sure if that investment of effort would have a return.

 

[ZETMAN]

My interpretation is same as you. But even if I push this to TAFEP or MOM for clarification, what can/will they possibly do? If they can really make an impact, I don't mind notifying them of this bad actor company and protecting the future candidates from their BS, but i'm not really sure if that investment of effort would have a return.

honestly, if u go down this route, u shld be already walking away. its just giving the company a parting middle finger instead of a wave message that u dont buy the Bs that they are peddling

 

[Positiveman]

let me share my friend de story ar

he work in a local listed company for 3 years then one day the garment contact my friend say they didn't make some application on a licensing thingy. Need to quickly make the application and pay penalty. This license thing hor need to application on the first day of operation which is like 6 years ago, even before my friend join the company.

So my friend jiu proceed to do the application lor. Do hao application need to pay penalty of a few millions SGD. Not joking is really is much sia.

Upon do hao hor, the company terminate my friend, say afterall they need someone to 背黑锅

The boss give my friend 2 options, leave the company immediately, sign some form(u know i know sign simi form) and they compensate him 2 months or dun sign take 1 month compensation.

he sign lor take the 2 months compensation

jin sad hor, the boss still say he know he can work one but is bobian

 

[dango_daikazoku]

honestly, if u go down this route, u shld be already walking away. its just giving the company a parting middle finger instead of a wave message that u dont buy the Bs that they are peddling

Do you know if there's any specific/written rules that forbid such clause, that I can use to slap the coy with? Otherwise I'm afraid even if I try to escalate the paper tiger will just give some diplomatic, pro-employer, lukewarm response.