Human Resources FAQ

[dango_daikazoku]

let me share my friend de story ar

he work in a local listed company for 3 years then one day the garment contact my friend say they didn't make some application on a licensing thingy. Need to quickly make the application and pay penalty. This license thing hor need to application on the first day of operation which is like 6 years ago, even before my friend join the company.

So my friend jiu proceed to do the application lor. Do hao application need to pay penalty of a few millions SGD. Not joking is really is much sia.

Upon do hao hor, the company terminate my friend, say afterall they need someone to 背黑锅

The boss give my friend 2 options, leave the company immediately, sign some form(u know i know sign simi form) and they compensate him 2 months or dun sign take 1 month compensation.

he sign lor take the 2 months compensation

jin sad hor, the boss still say he know he can work one but is bobian

Jin sad, but who is it that actually "need someone to 背黑锅"? Garment insist that the coy sack someone for punishment? Or internally the coy's own decision?

 

[ZETMAN]

Do you know if there's any specific/written rules that forbid such clause, that I can use to slap the coy with? Otherwise I'm afraid even if I try to escalate the paper tiger will just give some diplomatic, pro-employer, lukewarm response.

https://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practices/termination-of-employment/termination-with-notice

I will refer to this. it says notice or pay in lieu. not notice and then pay in lieu. if they want the one month additional as a bond repayment for less than 1 yr of service, I will challenge them that there must be consideration given for the bond to be valid, they must show proof that there is a course, sponsorship or sign on bonus that gives consideration to such clause

 

[Positiveman]

Jin sad, but who is it that actually "need someone to 背黑锅"? Garment insist that the coy sack someone for punishment? Or internally the coy's own decision?

the boss say he need to answer for other stakeholder, so he need someone to 背黑锅

 

[dango_daikazoku]

https://www.mom.gov.sg/employment-practices/termination-of-employment/termination-with-notice

I will refer to this. it says notice or pay in lieu. not notice and then pay in lieu. if they want the one month additional as a bond repayment for less than 1 yr of service, I will challenge them that there must be consideration given for the bond to be valid, they must show proof that there is a course, sponsorship or sign on bonus that gives consideration to such clause

Thanks, but the page does not explicitly state that such a clause is not allowed, so maybe they can still try to argue that what they do is legal and try to prey on desperate job seekers to accept their terms.

I re-read your previous post and realize that actually our interpretation is a bit different. What they state is that there must be a payment of one month salary, but did not say that there is an option to serve two-month notice instead if I refuse to pay them for that one month.

It can turn out to be some kind of a trap to hire someone in, then give them shlt lots of work or other BS, then hope that they will voluntarily leave so that the company can can profit from that extra one month worth of dollars from the employee.

 

[ZETMAN]

Thanks, but the page does not explicitly state that such a clause is not allowed, so maybe they can still try to argue that what they do is legal and try to prey on desperate job seekers to accept their terms.

I re-read your previous post and realize that actually our interpretation is a bit different. What they state is that there must be a payment of one month salary, but did not say that there is an option to serve two-month notice instead if I refuse to pay them for that one month.

It can turn out to be some kind of a trap to hire someone in, then give them shlt lots of work or other BS, then hope that they will voluntarily leave so that the company can can profit from that extra one month worth of dollars from the employee.

while webpage doesnt specifically states that such practice is allowed, I highly doubt that the practice has a leg to stand on in terms of being fair employment practices and will most likely be overthrown if raised for dispute.

However, as it stands, if you want to challenge the legality of this clause, you must be prepare to walk away from this employment as well.

I dont think your conspiracy theory of hire and force to leave is valid as it is too much hassle and the ROI is minimal.

 

[Tedicious]

let me share my friend de story ar

he work in a local listed company for 3 years then one day the garment contact my friend say they didn't make some application on a licensing thingy. Need to quickly make the application and pay penalty. This license thing hor need to application on the first day of operation which is like 6 years ago, even before my friend join the company.

So my friend jiu proceed to do the application lor. Do hao application need to pay penalty of a few millions SGD. Not joking is really is much sia.

Upon do hao hor, the company terminate my friend, say afterall they need someone to 背黑锅

The boss give my friend 2 options, leave the company immediately, sign some form(u know i know sign simi form) and they compensate him 2 months or dun sign take 1 month compensation.

he sign lor take the 2 months compensation

jin sad hor, the boss still say he know he can work one but is bobian

Usually regualtor go after the senior management for a answer isn't it?
If im the friend, I will fight till the end. Based on what account I was terminated - Licensing?

If so impt how come the previous staff/founder dunno ? Not license still dare to operate?

 

[ZuoMoJiangDe]

Nowadays if a company insists that you do interview on site instead of online what could be the reasons for it? Is it because they need you to check in with your IC so that they can prove to MOM that some Singaporean went down to their office for interview?

 

[ZETMAN]

Nowadays if a company insists that you do interview on site instead of online what could be the reasons for it? Is it because they need you to check in with your IC so that they can prove to MOM that some Singaporean went down to their office for interview?

there are easier methodology for establishing the statistics for MOM than inviting down for interview.

The need for physical interview can stem from the interviewers' inability to move away from traditional face to face interview and the feel that they get from such session. i have witness managers attesting that this is a better assessment medium for them but i hold different thoughts. Usually I will prefer virtual interview as it has the least of the administrative cost to all parties, interviewers and candidate alike. Only when there is a 2nd interview, then i will arrange for face to face to give the candidate a glimpse of what is the potential work environment that they will be working in be like.

 

[dango_daikazoku]

there are easier methodology for establishing the statistics for MOM than inviting down for interview.

The need for physical interview can stem from the interviewers' inability to move away from traditional face to face interview and the feel that they get from such session. i have witness managers attesting that this is a better assessment medium for them but i hold different thoughts. Usually I will prefer virtual interview as it has the least of the administrative cost to all parties, interviewers and candidate alike. Only when there is a 2nd interview, then i will arrange for face to face to give the candidate a glimpse of what is the potential work environment that they will be working in be like.

curious, what are the common/easier methodologies?

 

[dango_daikazoku]

while webpage doesnt specifically states that such practice is allowed, I highly doubt that the practice has a leg to stand on in terms of being fair employment practices and will most likely be overthrown if raised for dispute.

However, as it stands, if you want to challenge the legality of this clause, you must be prepare to walk away from this employment as well.

I dont think your conspiracy theory of hire and force to leave is valid as it is too much hassle and the ROI is minimal.

Speaking of ROI, I'm not so sure what are the typical cost involved in recruitment? If the HR/recruiter will be paid the salary anyway, then its a fixed cost. So, any such stunt they can pull off is already an immediate profit isn't it? And if it is done at a larger scale...

 

[ZETMAN]

Speaking of ROI, I'm not so sure what are the typical cost involved in recruitment? If the HR/recruiter will be paid the salary anyway, then its a fixed cost. So, any such stunt they can pull off is already an immediate profit isn't it? And if it is done at a larger scale...

u think it is profit only because u dunno the amount of effort in hiring a person onboard. not to mention there are other tasks at hand. For any HR, hiring someone and terminating an employment both carries alot of administrative task. If the company has so much time on hand, they rather hire a good sales person to canvass for business with a higher roi.

 

[Arshavin2015]

Received an offer with 25% increment with a heavier workload and lesser benefits, for eg. lesser leaves by 5 days.

Is it wise to talk to my current manager first to match the offer or just submit resignation straight away, hopping the current company will counter-offer?

Please advise

Your manager will ask u to just go.

 

[dango_daikazoku]

u think it is profit only because u dunno the amount of effort in hiring a person onboard. not to mention there are other tasks at hand. For any HR, hiring someone and terminating an employment both carries alot of administrative task. If the company has so much time on hand, they rather hire a good sales person to canvass for business with a higher roi.

Hmm, not really answering the question...

 

[ZETMAN]

Hmm, not really answering the question...

its already answered. the effort in doing such things are simply not worth the salt of paying a HR to do so.

not to mention the potential backblast if ex employees dispute the termination. Many ppl feel that HR do nothing but it is because what HR are doing are not visible and some of those things required a certain degree of discretion and confidentiality. If a company is so moronic to do such a thing as painted by ur conspiracy theorem, u will see the HR dept having the highest turnover rate in the company.

 

[dango_daikazoku]

Ok... anyway...

When calculating/prorating salary, should "calendar days" or "working days" be used? Why?

 

[ZETMAN]

Ok... anyway...

When calculating/prorating salary, should "calendar days" or "working days" be used? Why?

working days. as it stands, company pay u a salary for u to work. lets put it this way, if u r not an employee of the company, should company pay u a salary for any day? same logic

 

[ZETMAN]

Received an offer with 25% increment with a heavier workload and lesser benefits, for eg. lesser leaves by 5 days.

Is it wise to talk to my current manager first to match the offer or just submit resignation straight away, hopping the current company will counter-offer?

Please advise

good horse no eat return head grass

 

[Comage]

good horse no eat return head grass

Bro, I know you are one of the better laojiaos in this thread giving kind advice to those seeking advice here...

But seems that some of the inquiries lately really stink of strawberry entitlement (that's why I take a backseat and just don't bother replying already...).

Nevertheless, you're a good man. Thanks for all the advice given here.

 

[ZETMAN]

Bro, I know you are one of the better laojiaos in this thread giving kind advice to those seeking advice here...

But seems that some of the inquiries lately really stink of strawberry entitlement (that's why I take a backseat and just don't bother replying already...).

Nevertheless, you're a good man. Thanks for all the advice given here.

thanks for your kind words. I know what u mean, but I still give the benefit of the doubt to some of them till proven otherwise. They may just be misinformed or misguided due to their environment /exposure. till then, I will try to provide the perspective from a HR Pov but disclaimer is that i dont represent all HR and some of the HR i work with before are nothing but abhorrent.

That being said, HR is a profession or line of work that is often misrepresented or a target for employees/people simply because it is more convenient group to be blame for things when they lacks the courage or insight to blame their direct manager or the company. Its the same thing as labelling all middle east folks as terrorist, all chinese as communist just to vilify a group as the protagonist that is responsible for doing the henchmen work for the all evil company.

But from the questions that floats around, u realize that as harsh as the following statement is, it has validity. common sense has often take a backseat in some of the questions that are posted.

 

[ZuoMoJiangDe]

Hello got something to ask for friend.

She told me that her company on wednesday asked her to choose to resign herself or get terminated. Then because she need more time to think, so they gave her one week to consider.

So by right have to reply them next week. But then this morning, she realized she got locked out of her work account when WFH, and they sent an email to her personal email address to inform her that they have accepted "her resignation" (which she did not make).

Is this legit/legal from MOM's perspective? Any chance to fight back?