If toto win few millions..

JJJ010101

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This is not troll question.. I'm seriously curious and thinking about this..

If toto win few millions, or somehow u suddenly inherited a big sum of money, what will you do with the money? Put into govt bonds and earn the rates? Property? What's the best move?
 

kaysiao

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Give $1 million to the second person who post on my thread :D

But to answer your question, put 50% in savings, the other 50% to buy nice house, and travel the world with my family. Then think about investing it in less risky assets (Fixed deposits, T-bills)
 

Perisher

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10% spend with family and enjoy first.
50% Flip property.
20% fixed asset with highest interest. Be it bonds or bank interest.
20% put into index like vwrd, vusd, sti etf
10% do whatever makes you happy, pick a hobby etc.
 

Bedokian

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Use Excel and spend a few minutes allocating the different windfall amounts to savings, investments, charity, giving to your family, clear loans, etc. At least when the time really comes, no matter how remote, you would have planned on what to do, and will not squander away in just 1 year.

I have an Excel file on this allocation somewhere in my computer.
 

wondrdoggie

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From personal experience. I did not win toto but I managed to get a successful exit from a company I cofoundered. So this is basically what I did:

I did nothing for at least 6 months money wise. Sure I celebrated with family in small ways but no major purchases. It takes time to absorb the fact that you now have money. Don't go around telling everyone how much you have, keep it low key. Somehow, people are nicer to you once you are wealthy but I know that basically nothing much has changed, I am still the same person. Don't let money make you think you are better than anyone else, because skills and intelligence aside, there is also a big dose of dumb luck.

Next, I thought about my life goals. I wanted to be free to not work and do things I like. Like draw, learn how to make a kickass coffee, spend time with family, do some good in society and travel. I realized I can't simply take what I have, divide by my life expectancy and see if my lifestyle cost can be covered. I need to grow what I have. That's when I started reading about investments. I started calling in the private bankers when I realized while I can understand how financial products work, I don't have the inclination or stamina to monitor and react the way the professionals can. I also don't have the access to some products without their platforms. With their help, I set up a portfolio that gives me enough returns to sustain my lifestyle and grow my principle. Basically, I don't have to work. Best of all, I just need to rebalance every 6mths or so. Yes, I pay fees and the bank spreads, and I am ok with it.

As for what my portfolio consist of, it's diversified across the world, across balancing products, industries and currencies. I have bonds, equities, hedge funds, private equity, fx, satellite stuff like options/ELNs/FCNs etc. The aim is stable returns with as low volatility as possible. So far so good. I also paid off the mortgage.

I allowed myself a small amount to buy toys. Like a new car and watches. But I limit myself and space out major spending. Because I realize that the key to wealth mgt is moderation. Lifestyle upgrades are very easy but downgrades are tough. I don't want to ever have to downgrade. So while I can afford a patek, I force myself to start with the most basic cartier that I bought second hand. I think that is an important philosophy to have.

So I would say, the key is to take time to think about what you want in life and don't be in a hurry to give it all away, spend it or even invest it.

Last, I try to give back though I am no mother Teresa. Donations to causes I believe in, people that need help etc. Helping people is one of the things that bring happiness both to them and me.
 

Shiny Things

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This is not troll question.. I'm seriously curious and thinking about this..

If toto win few millions, or somehow u suddenly inherited a big sum of money, what will you do with the money? Put into govt bonds and earn the rates? Property? What's the best move?

I did a bit of fantasising about this myself a couple of weeks ago when the Powerball jackpot cracked the half-billion-dollar mark.

So the first thing is to get the obvious boring stuff out of the way. First, you always take the cash upfront. Powerball's stated jackpot (and all the other lotteries over here, I dunno about in Singapore) is based on taking roughly equal annual payments over three decades, but they use a low discount rate that makes "take the cash and invest it yourself" a better option. That takes the pot down from $560 million to $380 million.

Second, taxes. In America, this is a thing: you're going to pay about 40% of that pot straight back to the IRS in taxes. Depending on whether you live in an awesome state or a lame state, you might have to pay a state-tax nut on top of that as well. So that takes the pot down from $380 million to about $230 million.

But that means you still have $230 million burning a hole in your pocket.

There are a lot of externalities you have to think about here - hangers-on, scammers, clingy family, avoiding dodgy investments, walking-around money, how to suppress your urge to walk into the nearest Ferrari dealer and say "I'll take one of everything". These are the sort of things that wealth advisers charge thousands an hour to talk about, and I'm going to constrain myself to investment philosophies.

There are basically two investment approaches you can take when you get to nine figures. At this point, you're dynastically wealthy. You can pretty much set up your own charitable foundation or seed your own hedge fund. And most importantly, you can set your family up for life for at least a couple of generations if you're so inclined.

Option 1 is the ultra-conservative route. Buy a nice house, then stick the rest in govvy bonds. You'll pull about $3 million a year in tax-free interest, and really $3 million a year will set you up quite nicely, and you'll never have to worry about the money going boom.

There are a few big downsides to this, though. The first one is that there's no inflation protection here. Eventually, inflation will turn that $3 million a year into... well, still $3 million a year, but it won't buy you nearly as much. And until Singapore launches inflation-linked bonds, there's nothing you can do about that.

And the second problem is that there's no opportunity for capital growth. So you can live off the principal, but you'll be missing out on the opportunities to compound your portfolio and really establish a nice big legacy.

So what I'd do is option 2: a 50-50 stock-bond mix.

I'd keep away from private companies, from hedge funds, from asset managers, all that sort of rubbish, and stick to public companies because that's what I know best.

50% of it in bonds is a very conservative allocation, so you'll still never have to worry about the money going boom; but the 50% allocation to global stocks gives you plenty of opportunities for capital growth. Dividends are so generous right now that you'll actually earn more income from the stocks than the bonds, and you'll get serious compounding capital growth as well.

The portfolio could grow at 5-6% per year with not too much risk; your worst drawdown, even in the depths of the GFC, was only 25% top to bottom, and you'd have earned it all back by midway through 2010.

And the best bit - you'd still have $3 million a year of (totally passive-income!) walking-around money. $3 million buys a lot of nice holidays, and what's the point of having a quarter billion dollars in the bank if you can't take a nice holiday occasionally?
 

Keverus

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Depending on how much I win

1. Buy (multiple) properties. Probably would just pay whole amount. Yes, doesnt make the best financial sense, but for simplicity sake. Don't want to so lei-chey.

2. Park a few hundreds K in a bank, no ATM, no internet banking. Still young, dont know what stupid thing I will do if have too much excess money, so better throw a few hundred K somewhere safe from my hands. :D

3. Start a business with 1-2mil.

4. Allocate a portion to buy stocks

5. take out 10k to #YOLO

****hs. now u all make me think of how great it would be to strike lottery. :mad:
 

archcherub

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30% for properities
50% for indices and stocks around the world, diversification.
15% for family and my enjoyment.
5% i guess for charities...

Dependson the jackpot amount.... Toto $6 million is peanuts, but powerball $230millions... wow!!... i would allocate a large part in environment causes...
not greenpeace but probably buy some rainforest in indonesia so they would stay untouched.....

hmmm maybe the stocks i would go for ethical investing.... invest in green energies such as solar city financing.
improve solar outreach and yet earn a decent returns.
not bad!
 

Shiny Things

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Noticed everyone seems to like to buy properties!:)

Yeah, this is something that I'd be interested in discussing a bit more. I'm very much of the post-crash school of thought that says property's not such a great investment (not least because your stock portfolio won't call you up at three in the morning to complain that the water heater's broken).

Over the long term, it seems like property tracks inflation pretty closely, which is fine... but stocks outperform inflation, and property has all sorts of transaction costs attached to it, and property management is just a hell of a lot of work for what seems like a subpar return.

Serious question: why would you own physical property instead of a REIT?
 

JJJ010101

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Interesting answers! haha

Properties hmm.. I guess in Singapore with its limited space, properties will have more potential to grow, no?

and owning a fully paid property seems like the way to go in terms of financial security..

but then again, properties are also highly affected by political factors such as goverment policies whether direct or indirect..

$0.02
 
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dexxa

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Good replies from many here.

We have to be mindful not to be overwhelmed by the adrenaline and start doing things unexpectedly.

i have read an article about how lottery winners spent away their fortunes through bad investments, gifts, spendings etc and end up in a lousier state
 

wondrdoggie

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Interesting answers! haha

Properties hmm.. I guess in Singapore with its limited space, properties will have more potential to grow, no?

and owning a fully paid property seems like the way to go in terms of financial security..

but then again, properties are also highly affected by political factors such as goverment policies whether direct or indirect..

$0.02

Well, I used to think it was really cool to own a few properties. You know,bragging rights and the option to stay here and there on a whim plus get rental income and cap appreciation.But I have come to realize that from an investment point of view, residential real estate may not be that good an asset class.

Here is a live example: I bought my condo 9 years ago at a very low market period so I got basically the 2nd cheapest unit in the estate. I actually checked. Now 9 years later, my unit has doubled it's value. Sounds awesome right? Except when you take 100% gain and divide by 9 years. You get what 11% pa? Say if it were my investment vehicle, I would rent it out at maybe 3%. So total of 14% gross return a year, which is pretty good. But we don't live in a perfect world. What if I can't get full occupancy all year round? What if I need to pay cost and hassle of maintenance, property tax, monthly maintenance? If it's not a full cash investment, then I got to consider raising mortgage cost. If I have assholes of tenants, i need to go solve problems and maybe even evict them. What if they don't pay rent? Also, if you didn't buy at rock bottom prices like I did, the gain is even less.

The list goes on. So I have came to the conclusion that yes it makes absolute sense to own and pay up the property you live in. That's gives security and lots of unmeasurable utility. But as investment assets, it probably makes more sense to buy property stocks and have the ease/freedom to buy in/out and transfer around.
 

archcherub

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Properties:-
culturally, I think most asians (im thinking of Chinese, but i suspect it is the same for other asians like indians, koreans etc?) like the concept of owning land.

Leverage. Singaporeans loves the idea of property because when they buy 1, they are forking out only about 20% of the costs, and the rest is by bank loan, so when the property rises 5% in 1 year, you are getting 5% on the full 100% when u paid only 20%..
people who dont account for the interest, the potential drop etc will see properties as a much higher returns than the correct rate.

Plus.. add in the fact that Singaporeans can use CPF OA for properties, u get a culturally infused worship of properties.

I will get physical property if i can get bank loans, and pay only a downpayment.
If not, I rather own REITS :o
 

w1rbelw1nd

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If I were one of the 2 that won the toto (impossible because I don't donate to Singapore Pools) $6 million,

I would use:

10% of the money to spend on my family and friends (holidays to US, nice meals), to be spread over 5 years

10% of the money on charitable causes (spread over 5 years)

5% of the money for further education overseas (preferably a Masters in Finance)

75% investments in ETFs across asset classes and geography.

0% in property.


Why 0% in property? In my opinion, many of the government subsidies/ policies or future policieslook at the value of your property as a proxy of your wealth. Getting multiple property for rental income is suboptimal because of income tax. For me, I still want to be able to BTO and be treated normally despite my windfall.

I would exercise discretion with the returns that I will get from my investment. Probably I would want to spend half of my time doing personal finance related work after my masters, half of my time doing and funding charitable acts :)
 

archcherub

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Forgot to add.
Take a sum out and treat everyone in this thread for a luxurious dinner at one of the Celebrity Chef Restaurant at MBS

:D:D
 

Shion

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For me, depending on the amount, some of it for my dad's medical expenditure

The rest probably do some stock investing

Anyway, buying a condo to rent = yay or nah
 

archcherub

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Come, I root for you. You quickly go buy! :s12:

seldom buy ever since they doubled the costs for System 7 to $7.
its too high a tax (lottery is a tax on the mathematically challenged, LOL) for me... haha ok lah, since everyone so high from this discussion, i buy 1 set for tomorrow..
if i disappear suddenly, u guys know why :s8:
HAHAHA


eh the more i think abt it, the more i feel property is indeed a good investment.
Yes if u paid 100% cash, then overall it is not as good as stock returns.

but most people just pay 20% or 30% cash, and then bank loan for the rest.
Your bank loan servicing is just 1.5% or 2% with the current low interests rate.

If a $1m condo rises to $1.1m in 1 year time
u earn $100,000 but ur cash payment is only $300,000 (asssuming 30% deposit)
even if u includes the interest, lawyers fees, stamp duties, the 33% return on capital would cut down to around 25% or 20% return?

Of course.. double edged sword.. kiss ur money good bye when ur $1m property drops to $900,000
or property cooling measures like 3 times stamp duties, or extra tariffs etc.

But i assume conservative investors like the idea of "owning" the physical properties compared to the thrill of seeing some papers or electronic data of stocks.
 
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