Important insurance Coverage For Newborns

[lousylah]

I will have to burst the bubble here. Most singaporean have grown up with the propaganda that “singapore lumber wan!”

while it might have been far from inaccurate in the 90s, the world has moved on.

specific to medical, i can say singapore is far behind in terms of the most advanced and cutting edge in treatment and medication. It is government policy that any treatment or medication for use in SG has to be approved by US FDA for at least 10-years (!!).

again, in the 80s/90s this makes sense - US was considered advanced and for medicine lets have enough empirical evidence before jumping on the bandwagon.

but the world has changed, medical advances and breakthrough happens nearly on a yearly basis now. US due to lobbying is not friendly to drugs/treatment developed elsewhere. Our policy is too conservative and outdated.

for at least 90% of cases, our policy is sufficient. But if you (your loved ones) happen to unfortunately suffer from some rare, novel condition then the most cutting edge treatment is simply not allowed here (no matter how rich you are).

Beyond cutting edge treatment, our junior doctors do not have a chance to get enough cases and experience to truly develop and stretch their skills and knowledge. It is just a simple fact of the small market singapore is.

in places like india, thailand. The trauma and ER experience of mid-level medical professionals far far outstrips even the most experienced trauma doctors and nurses here - simply from the sheer volume and variety of cases they handle daily.

so take it with pinch of salt about “singapore lumber wan”. The uncomfortable fact is - we are not.

 

[reddevil0728]

Nope. I started replying before he started. He only happened to click/tap Post very shortly before I did. But sure, consider my post a reply to @JuniorLion's (also).

Your post which quoted mine doesn’t seem to be related though?

so nothing to do with what he started right?

 

[JuniorLion]

Thanks for chipping in.

But I've heard some parents say that the wait at KKH can be really long (4-6hrs). Hence they had no choice but to bring their kid to a private hospital.

It is 4-6 hours. Maybe ang moh get it within 15 minutes.

 

[sohguanh]

It is 4-6 hours. Maybe ang moh get it within 15 minutes.

The long wait is becuz doctor assess it is not life threatening. But as parents we assess is life threatening so if cannot wait pay monies go private lor.

But be also informed for complicated cases private also transfer (responsibility etc) back to KKH as it is the default govt hospital for complicated woman and child cases with more comprehensive equipment and all.

Own real life experience in KKH while waiting for spouse delivery I saw rush of crowd with nurses whispering the pregnant woman is transferred over from xxx. Her partner say all got complicated problem send to us we overworked leh. She want to resign join private instead.

 

[BBCWatcher]

But I've heard some parents say that the wait at KKH can be really long (4-6hrs). Hence they had no choice but to bring their kid to a private hospital.

You don't wait when it's a genuine emergency (personal experience unfortunately). I can also say (from personal experience again) that you can sometimes wait a while in the KKH A&E if it's not a genuine emergency. But there's a "hack" in those situations: the urgent care facilities. There's one at Alexandra Hospital open 24 hours, another (specifically for children) in Junction 10 mall operated by NUH (last registration at 9 PM). Plus neighborhood GP offices, and a few of them are open 24 hours. (Personal experience in a couple urgent care centres too.)

specific to medical, i can say singapore is far behind in terms of the most advanced and cutting edge in treatment and medication. It is government policy that any treatment or medication for use in SG has to be approved by US FDA for at least 10-years (!!).

The HSA does not always wait for U.S. FDA approval. It considers approvals in 6 regulatory jurisdictions. Do you have any source that says HSA only waits for the U.S. FDA, and then only after 10 years of approval?

Note that there are lots of medical studies in Singapore for novel and compassionate use of medicines that are experimental or not yet approved in Singapore. (Anecdotal personal experience again.)

Also, the U.S. FDA only really considers whether a drug is safe and effective. It doesn't reject "me too" applications. If a new drug comes along that's also safe and effective, but it's more expensive and not any more effective than existing drugs (or perhaps even a little less effective), it'll still get approved as long as the application is otherwise good enough.

You post which quoted mine doesn’t seem to be related though?

I specifically described how we didn't want to run the slight risk of a NICU transfer. That anecdote was in direct response to the point you raised.

 

[reddevil0728]

Thanks for chipping in.

But I've heard some parents say that the wait at KKH can be really long (4-6hrs). Hence they had no choice but to bring their kid to a private hospital.

Eh you are talking about waiting time.

capability is another matter

Private can be fast but if they can’t handle and still need to punt to govt, they still need to go govt

I will have to burst the bubble here. Most singaporean have grown up with the propaganda that “singapore lumber wan!”

while it might have been far from inaccurate in the 90s, the world has moved on.

specific to medical, i can say singapore is far behind in terms of the most advanced and cutting edge in treatment and medication. It is government policy that any treatment or medication for use in SG has to be approved by US FDA for at least 10-years (!!).

again, in the 80s/90s this makes sense - US was considered advanced and for medicine lets have enough empirical evidence before jumping on the bandwagon.

but the world has changed, medical advances and breakthrough happens nearly on a yearly basis now. US due to lobbying is not friendly to drugs/treatment developed elsewhere. Our policy is too conservative and outdated.

for at least 90% of cases, our policy is sufficient. But if you (your loved ones) happen to unfortunately suffer from some rare, novel condition then the most cutting edge treatment is simply not allowed here (no matter how rich you are).

Beyond cutting edge treatment, our junior doctors do not have a chance to get enough cases and experience to truly develop and stretch their skills and knowledge. It is just a simple fact of the small market singapore is.

in places like india, thailand. The trauma and ER experience of mid-level medical professionals far far outstrips even the most experienced trauma doctors and nurses here - simply from the sheer volume and variety of cases they handle daily.

so take it with pinch of salt about “singapore lumber wan”. The uncomfortable fact is - we are not.

Eh why comparing to external? Not meaningful in the context no?

 

[reddevil0728]

It is 4-6 hours. Maybe ang moh get it within 15 minutes.

I think capability and wait time are separate discussion points

The long wait is becuz doctor assess it is not life threatening. But as parents we assess is life threatening so if cannot wait pay monies go private lor.

But be also informed for complicated cases private also transfer (responsibility etc) back to KKH as it is the default govt hospital for complicated woman and child cases with more comprehensive equipment and all.

Own real life experience in KKH while waiting for spouse delivery I saw rush of crowd with nurses whispering the pregnant woman is transferred over from xxx. Her partner say all got complicated problem send to us we overworked leh. She want to resign join private instead.

Cheap good fast, pick 2.

I specifically described how we didn't want to run the slight risk of a NICU transfer. That anecdote was in direct response to the point you raised.

Right. It wasn’t immediately clear

thanks for clarifying

 

[BBCWatcher]

But I've heard some parents say that the wait at KKH can be really long (4-6hrs). Hence they had no choice but to bring their kid to a private hospital.

One more point about this: Integrated Shield plans almost never help in such situations. You're effectively using the A&E as an after-hours polyclinic in these non-genuine emergency situations. And that's absolutely fine. Sometimes that's the best available decision. Been there, done that! But even the most expensive Integrated Shield plan won't help in this situation. Integrated Shield plans are fundamentally hospitalization plans, meaning that coverage is triggered if you're actually admitted into the hospital. If you simply get checked out by an A&E or urgent care doctor and are then sent home with Panadol and a splint (for example), that's not a hospital admission. (There are a few exceptions such as day surgeries and outpatient cancer treatment.) Moreover, you must pay thousands of dollars out of pocket before the plan kicks in even if you are admitted. The minimum deductible is now rather high due to the new MOH rules. That is, even if you're admitted into a private hospital for observation for one night, your Integrated Shield plan and rider probably won't pay anything at all. But you'll obviously pay more out of pocket than you would at KKH.

 

[JuniorLion]

Yeah many things are not immediately life threatening, that's why you end up waiting for hours. Sure, that's fine if you are OK with waiting for treatment.

 

[reddevil0728]

Yeah many things are not immediately life threatening, that's why you end up waiting for hours. Sure, that's fine if you are OK with waiting for treatment.

Actually I’m not sure if they are separate arguments?

 

[JuniorLion]

It's the same. Buying PMI expands your options to beyond KKH.

 

[reddevil0728]

It's the same. Buying PMI expands your options to beyond KKH.

To be a bit pedantic, you don't actually need insurance to have access to all the options.

For the avoidance of doubt, I'm not arguing either for or against PMI (which I assume refers to Private Medical Insurance). Whether to buy it is an individual decision based on one's circumstances, preferences and risk appetite.

I also recognise that there are broader positions and agendas in this discussion. That's perfectly fine, but I'm only addressing the specific propositions being discussed here.

Reading the exchange, I think people are talking past each other because two different questions are being conflated.

One is about quality of care, clinical competency and capability.

The other is about speed of access and convenience.

Those are related, but they are not the same question.

On the first point, I don't think it's wrong to say that KKH is the "better" hospital if we're talking about clinical capability and expertise. One practical reason is that when private hospitals encounter cases beyond what they can manage, patients are transferred to KKH. More generally, when private hospitals cannot handle particularly complex cases, patients are transferred to the appropriate public tertiary hospitals. That reflects where the highest level of specialist capability resides. It doesn't necessarily say anything about waiting times or patient experience.

On the second point, it's equally true that the public system often involves longer waiting times. If someone values faster access, convenience or private-room amenities, then PMI may well be worthwhile.

Coming back to my original point, I said you don't need insurance to have access to all the options because anyone can choose to self-pay for private treatment. Whether that is financially sensible is an entirely separate question. Cost obviously matters in the real world, but conceptually it is a different discussion from whether the option exists.

So I think there are really two separate propositions:

1. Is KKH the stronger hospital in terms of clinical capability and expertise? I would say yes, and the fact that complex cases are referred there supports that view.
2. Does the public system generally involve longer waits, making PMI attractive for those who value faster access? I would also say yes.

Both statements can be true at the same time. Accepting one does not require rejecting the other.

 

[JuniorLion]

Is it written by LLM?

 

[BBCWatcher]

It's the same. Buying PMI expands your options to beyond KKH.

Not in this situation or in similar ones. Integrated Shield plans and riders sold on or after November 27, 2025, must now (or in an upcoming renewal) have deductibles of at least S$3,500 for private hospital care. In a non-life threatening emergency you could take your kid on a Grab or Gojek ride(*) to Singapore's third highest rated pediatric hospital: Mount Elizabeth. Then a doctor will attend to your child and (let's suppose) take an X-ray, affix a splint, hand you a small bottle of Panadol, and send you home a couple hours earlier perhaps (also let's suppose). The bill will be much higher than what KKH charges(**) but less than S$3,500. Unless you have other claims in the policy year to absorb the S$3,500 deductible, Integrated Shield never kicks in.

If there's no life threatening emergency, but you need urgent care, a great option is to head to the 24 hour Urgent Care Centre at Alexandra Hospital. There you'll typically pay a flat S$145.75, and you're simply not going to have the 40+ kids ahead of you in the queue on a Saturday night at 11 PM during a school holiday week. (For example. Yes, I'm quite familiar.🫤)

(*) If it's an SCDF ambulance ride, you're going to the nearest available public hospital's A&E. Very occasionally to an overflow contracted private hospital, but that'll still be on public patient terms. If it's a genuine emergency, the ride will be free. If not, S$274. Integrated Shield doesn't cover this charge.

(**) KKH A&E charges a flat S$172.50 in most cases, including in this scenario.

 

[reddevil0728]

Is it written by LLM?

I wrote what I wanted to write first in a sloppy fashion then i get LLM to help me clean up.

I have read through it and is inline with what i intended to communicate before posting.

So substance not the form that matters.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Buying PMI expands your options to beyond KKH.

Following up on my previous post, one would think you'd choose the first or second best pediatric hospital in Singapore instead of the third best if your child needs serious medical attention. But let's keep going....

Here's where I will agree with you: private medical insurance has a role if you want to expand your medical options in ways that are actually medically useful — to obtain the highest probability of the best medical outcome. According to the same Newsweek/Statista rating the world's #1 best pediatric hospital is Boston Children's Hospital in the United States. Their top 5 are in the U.S., Canada, and the U.K. Hypothetically you could buy an international private medical insurance policy for your child that would pay for care at any of these fine institutions. That sort of insurance is obviously more expensive, and you cannot use MediSave dollars to pay for it. But you could buy it; it's available. Pacific Prime is an example of an insurance broker in Singapore that specializes in selling this type of insurance.

 

[hwmook]

It is 4-6 hours. Maybe ang moh get it within 15 minutes.

Nope, I went to KKH A&E everytime within 30mins already got doctors attend to my son. I don't go there unless GP ask me to go. There are a lot of people who happy happy go KKH A&E for all the small problems, 4-6hrs wait is for those people. I got no problems with public hospitals A&E, personal experience.

I paid private rate to go KKH when my wife deliver my son. Public hospitals provide the best medical care, private hospitals provide the best service. Pay private rate at public hospitals, best of both worlds.

 

[hwmook]

It's the same. Buying PMI expands your options to beyond KKH.

Buying private medical insurance is subsidizing those monkeys who like to anyhow claim insurance. I am not interested in subsidizing these buggers, I rather save the money and pay for private hospitals when needed. You must understand that insurance is not charity, all the claims must come from the premiums so if you use less than those monkeys then you lose out and is just subsidizing them. Save the premiums and invest the money, you will have the cash to pay for private medical care when you feel like it.

 

[reddevil0728]

Buying private medical insurance is subsidizing those monkeys who like to anyhow claim insurance. I am not interested in subsidizing these buggers, I rather save the money and pay for private hospitals when needed. You must understand that insurance is not charity, all the claims must come from the premiums so if you use less than those monkeys then you lose out and is just subsidizing them. Save the premiums and invest the money, you will have the cash to pay for private medical care when you feel like it.

People go private hospital eat lobster

https://www.straitstimes.com/business/invest/do-lobster-meals-add-to-high-hospital-charges

 

[BBCWatcher]

Save the premiums and invest the money, you will have the cash to pay for private medical care when you feel like it.

Also please note that all Integrated Shield plans partly pay for private hospital care (if otherwise claimable) once you clear the deductible. The amount the policy pays is related to the plan type and proration factor (if any).

For example, if you have a private hospital bill, and a public hospital A ward Integrated Shield plan with a 65% proration factor for private hospital care, the insurance company takes the bill and makes three adjustments. First, it sets aside anything that’s medically unnecessary. (It always does that.) If the hospital billed you for personal telephone calls to Portugal or a Taro card reading, those items aren’t claimable and will be immediately tossed aside. Second, it tags charges related to preexisting conditions, if any, since those are only covered at some other level which could be at the bare MediShield Life level. Third, it multiplies the remaining bill by the proration factor, and it takes THAT amount (plus the separate preexisting condition-related computation, prorated) and runs it through the rest of the computations (deductible, co-pays, sublimits, etc.)

In short, you’ll have to pay at least 35% of the private hospital bill (in cash and/or MediSave) when there’s a 65% proration factor, but it might not be more than that if you’ve reached your co-insurance cap.