Integrated Shield plan upgrade exclusions

guiguy

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Hello
I'm 61 and have been holding Supreme Health B+ for a couple of years. I tried to upgrade and add the riders for zero deductible and no copay but had to go for a medical. The provider GE cheekily congratulated me on the successful application, subject to a number of exclusions stemming from the medical where I 'foolishly' disclosed treatments many decades ago. Needless to say, that raised my blood pressure.

Should I write to as the underwriters to request a review? I don't mind a small loading but the exclusions were simply butt-covering outrageous and makes to whole upgrade pointless.

Would it be worthwhile switching ISP or will I be subject to the same kiasu treatment and have to pay for another medical?

I guess keeping the B+ would be sufficient and there would be a lower outlay and I could stay with that but just infuriated at the underwriting process.

Any suggestions?

Rant mode off.
 

xiao.xin

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From my understanding, GE supreme health + total health does not do exclusions. Also is the practise for people above 60 to be required to do medical check up before being accepted into the policies. So I presume the exclusions could be due to the medical check up that you've done rather than you've declared before.

If there's anything that you've previously declared and is currently at a pink of health, feel free to obtain the necessary reports and get your agent to appeal for the exclusions. They're paid to do this for you.
 

vince123123

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You can try asking for exclusions to only apply to the upgraded plan and the excluded conditions to still be subject to the old plan. NTUC does this.
 

grinbeans

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You are not foolish to declare the past treatments. If you were to make a claim today and the past treatments, if undeclared previously, would be known to the insurers, you might not get a single cent back.

You could 1) go for a medical, 2) get a declaration from SMC certified doctor and try ask for a review of your exclusion, all at your expenses. There is no other way around this.

You can also choose to switch insurers, but please declare whatever past treatments you have been through, its far better that getting a plan without exclusions but end up not receiving a single cent in the event of a claim. If there are no exclusions from the new insurers or you happen to like them, congratulations. If the exclusions are the same and for whatever reasons you decide not to follow up with the new insurers, you have 30 days to declare to your previous insurers your decision to continue with their plan, no extra underwritting or cost included, it'll be as if you've never left them before.
 

Bigoya

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If the exclusions are the same and for whatever reasons you decide not to follow up with the new insurers, you have 30 days to declare to your previous insurers your decision to continue with their plan, no extra underwritting or cost included, it'll be as if you've never left them before.

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If the exclusions are the same and you see no reason for a switch, you need not inform your existing insurer as long as you hasn't signed the counter offer letter with the new insurer.
 

Bigoya

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Hello
I'm 61 and have been holding Supreme Health B+ for a couple of years. I tried to upgrade and add the riders for zero deductible and no copay but had to go for a medical. The provider GE cheekily congratulated me on the successful application, subject to a number of exclusions stemming from the medical where I 'foolishly' disclosed treatments many decades ago. Needless to say, that raised my blood pressure.

Should I write to as the underwriters to request a review? I don't mind a small loading but the exclusions were simply butt-covering outrageous and makes to whole upgrade pointless.

Would it be worthwhile switching ISP or will I be subject to the same kiasu treatment and have to pay for another medical?

I guess keeping the B+ would be sufficient and there would be a lower outlay and I could stay with that but just infuriated at the underwriting process.

Any suggestions?

Rant mode off.

For shield plan, tiagong AIA has the most lenient underwriters. I hasn't experienced their underwriting process yet but rumors are spreading.
However, their premiums are high.

You can try if you're keen. Go for underwriting, proper health declaration, Medical Examinations and all. If you aren't please with the results you can continue to stick with GE.
 

guiguy

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You can try if you're keen. Go for underwriting, proper health declaration, Medical Examinations and all. If you aren't please with the results you can continue to stick with GE.

Thanks, but I think I know what the result will be. I was in denial :-( and really, Plan without deductible and co-pay riders is sufficient I think, otherwise it gets uneconomical soon.
 

BBCWatcher

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and really, Plan without deductible and co-pay riders is sufficient I think, otherwise it gets uneconomical soon.
If you can make Medisave Account top ups (i.e. your MA is below the Basic Healthcare Sum and you will not reach the CPF Annual Limit), and if you are in a positive tax bracket (qualify for tax relief), then that'd be a good idea.

Some employers offer group medical insurance with no preexisting medical condition limitations. If you can take advantage of that, that'd be nice. (But I wouldn't discontinue your existing Integrated Shield coverage.)
 

guiguy

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If you can make Medisave Account top ups (i.e. your MA is below the Basic Healthcare Sum and you will not reach the CPF Annual Limit), and if you are in a positive tax bracket (qualify for tax relief), then that'd be a good idea.

Some employers offer group medical insurance with no preexisting medical condition limitations. If you can take advantage of that, that'd be nice. (But I wouldn't discontinue your existing Integrated Shield coverage.)


Thanks for your suggestions. The only advantage for me to top up MA is to take advantage of the 4% or whatever interest and use it to pay Premiums and save for medical emergencies. I've no earned income to have tax benefits. Yes, I miss the group medical insurance, I used to work for US multinational and that was a great incentive to keep being employed. Don't know any local companies with this benefit and in any case, I enjoy being retired. Minimal CPF but I have UK pension and US 401 K and trying to figure out best way to draw down and reinvest in a more liquid fund.
 

BBCWatcher

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The only advantage for me to top up MA is to take advantage of the 4% or whatever interest and use it to pay Premiums and save for medical emergencies.
Still a good idea, to a reasonable level. You know you've got future premiums and medical expenses coming, and 4% (or more) Singapore tax free is hard to beat. So compare your current MA to future needs, and top up if you think there's a gap.

Don't know any local companies with this benefit and in any case, I enjoy being retired.
There are some local companies that offer "gap filling" medical insurance, such as a bucket of free GP visits. But your Great Eastern policy is a pretty good one, as long as you stick to B1 public hospital wards.

Minimal CPF but I have UK pension and US 401 K and trying to figure out best way to draw down and reinvest in a more liquid fund.
Your U.S. 401(k) should be fully liquid now, i.e. you can withdraw any amount any time you wish since you're age 61. Indeed, you are required to start making 401(k) withdrawals at age 70 1/2 -- what are called "Required Minimum Distributions" -- otherwise there's a penalty. (I'm assuming it's a Traditional 401k rather than a Roth 401k.)

The Trump Administration and Congress may attempt to lower U.S. tax rates, so it's probably worth waiting a bit to see what they do. I would not bet on their passing tax changes since they can't even agree that the world is round, but you never know.

I think you have a couple basic options for withdrawals:

1. Withdraw 401(k) funds as/when you need the money, but starting no later than age 70 1/2. You'll pay ordinary U.S. income tax rates (same rates as earned income) if this is a traditional pre-tax 401(k). You're presumably in a lower tax bracket than when you contributed, or at least that was the gamble. Regardless, you deferred taxes, and that's not so bad.

2. Roll the 401(k) over into a Roth IRA, and (if your 401k administrator allows it) that can be one or more partial rollover(s). You pay income tax today on the rollover amount(s), but a Roth IRA is free of future U.S. income tax as long as you let the funds sit in the IRA for at least 5 years. And there are no Required Minimum Distributions with a Roth IRA. It's even inheritable, usually with tax advantages. Getting a new Roth IRA opened is a bit tricky if you're a resident of Singapore, but it can probably be done with enough persistence. (If you already have one you like, great, you're all set.)

Speaking of which, if you are not a U.S. person then my understanding is that your 401k will count toward your U.S. estate tax exemption of US$60,000. Pretty much any U.S. assets above that amount will be subject to the U.S. estate tax upon your demise. Check the rules on a Roth IRA to see if that'll help. If your total U.S. assets are below US$60K, don't worry about it.

You might want to be a little careful how much you withdraw from your 401k each calendar year so that you avoid pushing yourself up into the higher/highest tax bracket(s).

Finally, bear in mind that if you contributed to the U.S. Social Security system within any two calendar years (not necessarily for all or even most of those two calendar years, and they can be discontiguous calendar years) then you might qualify for U.S. Social Security retirement benefits. That's because the U.S. and the U.K. have a social security totalization treaty. Just tell the U.S. Social Security Administration about your U.K. contributions (and any contributions to other treaty countries), and they can count those years to get you up to the minimum 10 needed for U.S. benefits. Yes, you can collect from both the U.S. and the U.K. -- and from any other treaty countries where you worked and contributed, provided you met the treaty minimums in those other countries.

The U.S. system also offers a spousal benefit (same or opposite sex), so be sure your spouse applies for that. Yes, even a spouse who never stepped foot in the U.S.

OK, now what age to collect? Well, generally your spouse ought to start at his/her age 62. (That's a bit oversimplified, but that's probably correct, especially if your spouse is younger.) Your spouse will lose his/her spousal benefit upon your demise but pick up your retirement benefit from then on (if he/she is still alive). "Spouse" here includes separated and divorced spouses who have not remarried. (Again, oversimplifying slightly, but that's the basic idea. Some spouses are excluded due to residence in and/or citizenship with the "wrong" country.) For you, if you don't need the money and are in good health, try age 70. But don't wait any later than that (since Social Security won't increase your monthly benefit past that age, and since you can lose monthly payouts). You can start collecting as early as age 62 if you wish.

If you have hit the 10 year mark contributing to U.S. Social Security -- that is, you made nontrivial contributions within any 10 calendar years -- then you should qualify for free U.S. Medicare Part A. (Well, I think you do. I'm not exactly sure how that works for non-U.S. persons, but I believe that's correct.) Contact the U.S. Social Security Administration about 2 to 3 months before your 65th birthday and get your free Medicare Part A card. Part A is U.S. hospitalization coverage. It's not great coverage, but you could view it as something like supplemental coverage to emergency travel medical insurance if you decide to visit the United States.
 
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guiguy

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Still a good idea, to a reasonable level. You know you've got future premiums and medical expenses coming, and 4% (or more) Singapore tax free is hard to beat. So compare your current MA to future needs, and top up if you think there's a gap.


There are some local companies that offer "gap filling" medical insurance, such as a bucket of free GP visits. But your Great Eastern policy is a pretty good one, as long as you stick to B1 public hospital wards.


Your U.S. 401(k) should be fully liquid now, i.e. you can withdraw any amount any time you wish since you're age 61. Indeed, you are required to start making 401(k) withdrawals at age 70 1/2 -- what are called "Required Minimum Distributions" -- otherwise there's a penalty. (I'm assuming it's a Traditional 401k rather than a Roth 401k.)

The Trump Administration and Congress may attempt to lower U.S. tax rates, so it's probably worth waiting a bit to see what they do. I would not bet on their passing tax changes since they can't even agree that the world is round, but you never know.

I think you have a couple basic options for withdrawals:

1. Withdraw 401(k) funds as/when you need the money, but starting no later than age 70 1/2. You'll pay ordinary U.S. income tax rates (same rates as earned income) if this is a traditional pre-tax 401(k). You're presumably in a lower tax bracket than when you contributed, or at least that was the gamble. Regardless, you deferred taxes, and that's not so bad.

2. Roll the 401(k) over into a Roth IRA, and (if your 401k administrator allows it) that can be one or more partial rollover(s). You pay income tax today on the rollover amount(s), but a Roth IRA is free of future U.S. income tax as long as you let the funds sit in the IRA for at least 5 years. And there are no Required Minimum Distributions with a Roth IRA. It's even inheritable, usually with tax advantages. Getting a new Roth IRA opened is a bit tricky if you're a resident of Singapore, but it can probably be done with enough persistence. (If you already have one you like, great, you're all set.)

Speaking of which, if you are not a U.S. person then my understanding is that your 401k will count toward your U.S. estate tax exemption of US$60,000. Pretty much any U.S. assets above that amount will be subject to the U.S. estate tax upon your demise.

You might want to be a little careful how much you withdraw from your 401k each calendar year so that you avoid pushing yourself up into the higher/highest tax bracket(s).

Finally, bear in mind that if you contributed to the U.S. Social Security system within any two calendar years (not necessarily for all or even most of those two calendar years, and they can be discontiguous calendar years) then you might qualify for U.S. Social Security retirement benefits. That's because the U.S. and the U.K. have a social security totalization treaty. Just tell the U.S. Social Security Administration about your U.K. contributions (and any contributions to other treaty countries), and they can count those years to get you up to the minimum 10 needed for U.S. benefits. Yes, you can collect from both the U.S. and the U.K. -- and from any other treaty countries where you worked and contributed, provided you met the treaty minimums in those other countries.

The U.S. system also offers a spousal benefit (same or opposite sex), so be sure your spouse applies for those. Yes, even a spouse who never stepped foot in the U.S.

OK, now what age to collect? Well, generally your spouse ought to start at his/her age 62. (That's a bit oversimplified, but that's probably correct, especially if your spouse is younger.) Your spouse will lose his/her spousal benefit upon your demise but pick up your retirement benefit from then on (if he/she is still alive). "Spouse" here includes separated and divorced spouses who have not remarried. (Again, oversimplifying slightly, but that's the basic idea. Some spouses are excluded due to residence in and/or citizenship with the "wrong" country.) For you, if you don't need the money and are in good health, try age 70. But don't wait any later than that (since Social Security won't increase your monthly benefit past that age, and since you can lose monthly payouts). You can start collecting as early as age 62 if you wish.

If you have hit the 10 year mark contributing to U.S. Social Security -- that is, you made nontrivial contributions within any 10 calendar years -- then you should qualify for free U.S. Medicare Part A. (Well, I think you do. I'm not exactly sure how that works for non-U.S. persons, but I believe that's correct.) Contact the U.S. Social Security Administration about 2 to 3 months before your 65th birthday and get your free Medicare Part A card. Part A is U.S. hospitalization coverage. It's not great coverage, but you could view it as something like supplemental coverage to emergency travel medical insurance if you decide to visit the United States.

wow, thanks! Thats a lot of useful info I didn't know. I was just getting started to research this. I really appreciate you taking the effort to write all this up.
 
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