Integrated shield plans

[peacefulday]

Yes that is true. Downgrade does not require anything. Only the process of upgrading, should there be any conditions, you will be subjected to health screenings or checks specifically for those conditions.

But if healthy, upgrading will not be an issue.

Anyway regardless, at the rate premiums are going, a lot of people might be looking at downgrading. Just don't switch till the 5% co-payment is confirmed even for existing clients, and if you have pre-existing conditions.

Agreed with dendii, just don't switch/don't downgrade unnecessary if you're existing isp with full rider, unless 5% co-payment is announced even for existing clients.

Received below from income

[[The changes will only affect policyholders who submitted new applications or upgrade request after 08 Mar 2018.
For policies whose main plan and rider that were incepted before 08 Mar 2018, the changes do not affect for now. Income will review the appropriate approach for these policyholders and share more details in due course.]]

 

[asus83]

Try to get those insurance company that cover for the out patient visit at least 6 months before/after pre and post operation. Currently I'm with one insurance company only cover 3 months pre and post operation. And having some complication after the surgery and have to pay the follow-up visit after the 3 months period. That my personal view.

 

[happy_bear]

Yes that is true. Downgrade does not require anything. Only the process of upgrading, should there be any conditions, you will be subjected to health screenings or checks specifically for those conditions.

But if healthy, upgrading will not be an issue.

Anyway regardless, at the rate premiums are going, a lot of people might be looking at downgrading. Just don't switch till the 5% co-payment is confirmed even for existing clients, and if you have pre-existing conditions.

Refering to your opinion on `Dont switch or downgrade before announcement of 5% co payment`..How about downgrade private to B or C? There is nothing related to co payment here, more so to the steep rising premiums

 

[Advisor13]

Doesn't make sense at all to have private coverage with co-payment of 10%. The end result will be your bill might still be quite abit since it is private hospital.

Might as well downgrade to government to enjoy the full coverage.

Yeap, that's right so it depends on the individual that they want private or government service. As some would prefer to go to private, as the service there is faster and more efficient.

That's how NTUC plans works to co-pay 10% of it, as for other companies there's a cap per policy year you need to co-pay and not a percentage of it. To enjoy private hospital service.

But if you were to switch companies you would be subjected to the new rules of 5% co-insurance. (5% co-insurance is capped at $3,000 per policy year.)

 

[Advisor13]

Refering to your opinion on `Dont switch or downgrade before announcement of 5% co payment`..How about downgrade private to B or C? There is nothing related to co payment here, more so to the steep rising premiums

Just downgrade to Advantage will do, you won't be subjected to the new rules of 5% co-insurance. And you will be able to enjoy government A ward. If you're ok to wait for a bed in the government hospital and forgo the private efficient.

 

[tangent314]

Seriously, how badly are you going to suffer if you have to pay $3k (most or all of it from your Medisave account) for hospital bills above $60k?

The purpose of the ISP rider is to prevent your savings from being wiped out by a huge hospital bill. You don't need 100% cover to insure against that. For pretty much everybody, a 5% co-pay capped at $3k is more than good enough to achieve that purpose.

 

[JuniorLion]

Seriously, how badly are you going to suffer if you have to pay $3k (most or all of it from your Medisave account) for hospital bills above $60k?

Same point, put it in the reverse way. How badly are you going to suffer if you have to pay a few hundreds more for the 100% rider?

 

[BBCWatcher]

Same point, put it in the reverse way. How badly are you going to suffer if you have to pay a few hundreds more for the 100% rider?

You’re going to lose that bet, on average, unless you are a high risk policyholder. If you’re merely a normal risk policyholder, the insurance company will statistically, actuarially win that bet. It must pay its overheads and collect at least a modest profit, after all.

It’s like going to the casino and throwing hundreds of dollars into the slot machine, and with bad (casino slot machine) odds. It’s even worse than that, actually, because, in exchange for your unrestricted cash, if the slot machine pays out it only pays out with coins that are medically spendable, not generally spendable. But you already have buckets full of those restricted use coins, because (in Singapore) you’re required to hold buckets full of those restricted use coins: MediSave.

I really, really don’t know why tapping MediSave is such an awful thing, so awful that you’d pump unrestricted cash into an insurance product to defend against that possibility. That’s nutty! The government, which is loathe to intervene in insurance markets, intervened on that score because it is so nutty.

Save your premium dollars! Invest them prudently, and then you have more cash defenses for any/every possible calamity. And I know there are tons of people paying for these “zero dollar” riders who have absolutely zero disability income insurance, and that’s triple nutty.

 

[xtwis7]

Many people are not convinced by Disability Income Insurance even when they’re buying a substantial amount of life/term policies.

I think you mentioned before DII should always come first because it just covers more than the usual CI term.

How then if people tell you they’re afraid of getting retrenched and DII doesn’t applies anymore? Seemingly people think it’s actually quite pricey to pay 1-1.5% of their annual salary to have it insured.

You’re going to lose that bet, on average, unless you are a high risk policyholder. If you’re merely a normal risk policyholder, the insurance company will statistically, actuarially win that bet. It must pay its overheads and collect at least a modest profit, after all.

It’s like going to the casino and throwing hundreds of dollars into the slot machine, and with bad (casino slot machine) odds. It’s even worse than that, actually, because, in exchange for your unrestricted cash, if the slot machine pays out it only pays out with coins that are medically spendable, not generally spendable. But you already have buckets full of those restricted use coins, because (in Singapore) you’re required to hold buckets full of those restricted use coins: MediSave.

I really, really don’t know why tapping MediSave is such an awful thing, so awful that you’d pump unrestricted cash into an insurance product to defend against that possibility. That’s nutty! The government, which is loathe to intervene in insurance markets, intervened on that score because it is so nutty.

Save your premium dollars! Invest them prudently, and then you have more cash defenses for any/every possible calamity. And I know there are tons of people paying for these “zero dollar” riders who have absolutely zero disability income insurance, and that’s triple nutty.

 

[toBfair]

To be fair for existing ntuc full rider holder and since you have been paying yearly premium, take a step back and wait for their confirmation and the 5% co-payment might not affect you.

Preferable zero dollar touch on my medifund. Any other of my existing insurance fees withdrawal will end with immediate cash top in. No touch no touch my medisave

 

[JuniorLion]

How then if people tell you they’re afraid of getting retrenched and DII doesn’t applies anymore? Seemingly people think it’s actually quite pricey to pay 1-1.5% of their annual salary to have it insured.

Well said.

 

[JuniorLion]

Bbcw is a foreign talent. He will never be retrenched so DII is absolutely necessary.

 

[BBCWatcher]

How then if people tell you they’re afraid of getting retrenched and DII doesn’t applies anymore? Seemingly people think it’s actually quite pricey to pay 1-1.5% of their annual salary to have it insured.

Neither DII nor CI insure against loss of income due to job loss. Unemployment Insurance (UI) does that, but there isn’t much UI available in Singapore. (There’s some available, but it’s pretty weak tea.)

DII is a term product, with annual premium payments, so it’s not like you’re losing some “whole” insurance product with a surrender value if you lose coverage. Moreover, DII remains in force over unemployment spells of a certain duration. That tolerable duration varies by carrier and product, so just check the policy details. I could be mistaken, but my understanding is that Great Eastern’s Pay Assure tolerates unemployment spells as long as 730 days. That’s a lot!

Obviously if you’re unemployed you’re not getting any income. If you stay unemployed, you don’t have an income stream from work to protect. That’s what DII is defending, your future earning potential, which (for almost everybody, especially young and mid career working adults, is their single biggest asset, by far). If you’re approaching the date when your DII coverage would lapse, and you’re still not getting an income from work, then simply go back to work in something. OK, maybe that’s for a lower salary, but that’s OK for these purposes. DII doesn’t allow you to insure 100% of your current salary, and if your salary is pretty big (or bigger) you wouldn’t insure as much as 75% of it anyway because that’s too much coverage.

....Look, what’s the alternative here? To be royally f**ked if you become disabled and suffer a multi-year or career long income loss, because you didn’t take out DII? This really is the queen or king of insurance products for young and mid career working adults, in my view. It’s absolutely critical. And the government happens to agree with me, which is why CareShield Life is coming into force soon. The problem with CareShield Life is that benefits are only paid when you satisfy the “3 out of 6 ADL” definition of disability. That’s only profound disability, usually permanent. There’s a ton of income risk associated with less severe but still job impactful disabilities.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Bbcw is a foreign talent. He will never be retrenched so DII is absolutely necessary.

WTF? There’s absolutely no logic or sense in your post.

Yes, DII lapses if you’re unemployed longer than the policy allows. (You’re not dropped overnight; let’s not get silly about this.) OK, fine.... but does that mean you’re going to take the risk of getting royally f**ked every day of your early to mid working career if you’re disabled and lose your income? This makes no sense! It’s an argument perhaps why DII isn’t perfect, but there’s no such thing as a perfect insurance product. There are a few darn good ones, though, and DII is certainly that.

 

[toBfair]

To be fair, insurance cost keep increase. It is good to have everything but think twice, you dont want cover only yourself, how about a family of four = multiply 4 of it. No need over coverage, just stick to first 3 basic below and the rest talk later,
ISP with rider
A simple Term
A premium upgraded eldershield

Invest the rest.....

 

[JuniorLion]

Neither DII nor CI insure against loss of income due to job loss. Unemployment Insurance (UI) does that, but there isn’t much UI available in Singapore. (There’s some available, but it’s pretty weak tea.)

DII is a term product, with annual premium payments, so it’s not like you’re losing some “whole” insurance product with a surrender value if you lose coverage. Moreover, DII remains in force over unemployment spells of a certain duration. That tolerable duration varies by carrier and product, so just check the policy details. I could be mistaken, but my understanding is that Great Eastern’s Pay Assure tolerates unemployment spells as long as 730 days. That’s a lot!

Obviously if you’re unemployed you’re not getting any income. If you stay unemployed, you don’t have an income stream from work to protect. That’s what DII is defending, your future earning potential, which (for almost everybody, especially young and mid career working adults, is their single biggest asset, by far). If you’re approaching the date when your DII coverage would lapse, and you’re still not getting an income from work, then simply go back to work in something. OK, maybe that’s for a lower salary, but that’s OK for these purposes. DII doesn’t allow you to insure 100% of your current salary, and if your salary is pretty big (or bigger) you wouldn’t insure as much as 75% of it anyway because that’s too much coverage.

....Look, what’s the alternative here? To be royally f**ked if you become disabled and suffer a multi-year or career long income loss, because you didn’t take out DII? This really is the queen or king of insurance products for young and mid career working adults, in my view. It’s absolutely critical. And the government happens to agree with me, which is why CareShield Life is coming into force soon. The problem with CareShield Life is that benefits are only paid when you satisfy the “3 out of 6 ADL” definition of disability. That’s only profound disability, usually permanent. There’s a ton of income risk associated with less severe but still job impactful disabilities.

No, Sherlock. If you are umemployed and you get CI coverage, you get payout if you suffer from a critical illness. You don't if you only had DII.

You'd think events like this don't happen?

 

[BBCWatcher]

To be fair, insurance cost keep increase. It is good to have everything but think twice, you dont want cover only yourself, how about a family of four = multiply 4 of it. No need over coverage, just stick to first 3 basic below and the rest talk later,
ISP with rider

“Assist,” “Lite,” or “Saver” rider, OK, that could be reasonable. It’s perfectly OK if you cap your (mostly or fully MediSave payable) annual cost for covered medical care to, say, $3,000.

A simple Term

Term life insurance only if you have dependents and cannot self-insure.

A premium upgraded eldershield

This leg really ought to be Disability Income Insurance, a separate/different product. Upgraded ElderShield (soon to transition to CareShield Life) is, at best, a “2 out of 6 ADL” disability insurance. The weird thing here is that term life insurance nearly always already includes “Total and Permanent Disability” (TPD) coverage, usually with a “3 out of 6 ADL” definition. Anyway, for all these reasons, DII is of extreme importance to the vast majority of young and mid-career working adults.

Invest the rest.....

Well, travel medical insurance is rather important if you venture outside Singapore, especially to high medical cost (and/or poor medical care) countries. I currently like Bupa Global’s “Basic” plan, purchased online in British pounds, unless your travel outside Singapore is quite limited. (If it is quite limited a single trip policy could be a better value.)

 

[BBCWatcher]

No, Sherlock. If you are umemployed and you get CI coverage, you get payout if you suffer from a critical illness. You don't if you only had DII.

You'd think events like this don't happen?

Correct. So you can consider adding CI, after you have obtained adequate DII. DII is much, much higher priority.

CI is chock full of holes; you’re very badly protected with only CI. The most generous CI payout is a sad joke compared to income loss to age 65. DII has one notable hole: it lapses when you are long-term unemployed (which in Singapore, with today’s or a similar unemployment rate, is a choice, not an obligation — it’s fully within your power to repair total, long-term unemployment with a lower paying job, if you’re able to work, while you continue looking for higher paying employment).

There’s no such thing as a 100% perfect insurance product, but there are some higher quality and better aimed products versus others.

 

[maple96]

Insurance companies play with your fear and greed to sell their products. If u cannot manage your fear and greed, u will be donating all your hard earned monies to them.

There are trends in why people buy different insurance products, some are only introduced in the later years cos insurance companies need to be creative to sustain their business.

If u are high income earner, then maybe u fear so buy DII, but then when u are high income earner u would also tend to have alot of savings to self insure.

Luxury vs necessity. Most, even govt for the country's sake, think hospitalisation and long term care (CPF Life, Medishield Life, Eldershield/Careshield) are necessary.

U can afford, buy lor, dun forget u are donating your hard earned monies to them. If nothing happens, money gone, if something happens then u say heng ah! Like I was hospitalised twice due to accident, so I say heng ah, dun lose money still earn with my riders

I have WL CI (the trend more than 20 years ago), heng ah no need use, but will have big lump sum for retirement, earning more than 4% compounded, so just keep lor

 

[BBCWatcher]

If u are high income earner, then maybe u fear so buy DII, but then when u are high income earner u would also tend to have alot of savings to self insure.

DII is about defending and protecting income sufficiency if you’re partially or fully unable to earn an income, whatever the disability. High income earners, at least the ones who manage to save (and who don’t try to impress their girlfriends or boyfriends with Maseratis), can partially or fully self-insure at some point. Lower and moderate income earners take longer to reach the point when they can self-insure, and some never reach that point (or only reach that point just before retirement).