Investing with minimum fuss, help

NitrousExpress

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Hi guys, need some help here, new and I have no clue abt investing at all
I have a small $50,000 sitting in the bank now and I’m looking for a fuss-free way of growing this money.
Stashaway caught my eye and I am about to proceed to out my money on this platform.
Is it a wise decision or is there a better way?

looking for a fuss-free hands off investing

TIA
 

intime

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Hi guys, need some help here, new and I have no clue abt investing at all
I have a small $50,000 sitting in the bank now and I’m looking for a fuss-free way of growing this money.
Stashaway caught my eye and I am about to proceed to out my money on this platform.
Is it a wise decision or is there a better way?

looking for a fuss-free hands off investing

TIA

For stashaway-type of investment tools, also got AutoWealth and Smartly. These are very new fintech companies with no track record. It is still not known whether robo-advisors can survive major downturns.

For more established companies, got FSMOne MAPS, Phillip SMART Portfolio or dollarDEX investment portfolio. Their fees are probably more expensive than the new fintech companies.

Since you are looking for hands-off tools, you have to be ready to pay additional fees for their portfolio management services.
You can try splitting your money among all those companies to see which one of them manage your money better. :s13:
 
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BBCWatcher

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I have a small $50,000 sitting in the bank now and I’m looking for a fuss-free way of growing this money.
Before you consider investing, please take care of these three financial imperatives first:

1. Pay down high cost debt, such as credit card debt.

2. Insure adequately, which usually means the "Big 3": medical insurance (an "As Charged" Integrated Shield public hospital B2, B1, or A plan, usually), simple term life insurance (only if you have dependents, and only if they would need financial help if you were to die prematurely), and genuine disability income insurance (a basic income stream if you were to become disabled, unable to earn a living). The last of these is "controversial" perhaps, but I don't know why -- it's a very basic concept and defends against calamity.

3. Emergency reserve funds, and typically the best place for those is in a Singapore Savings Bond (SSB).

This fourth one is optional but recommended:

4. Take advantage of CPF top-up tax reliefs. Free money is generally worth collecting.

Stashaway caught my eye and I am about to proceed to out my money on this platform. Is it a wise decision or is there a better way?
Stashaway looks decent for small investors, but I have a few quibbles:

1. Stashaway collects an annual fee of up to 0.8%. Suppose you make a S$25,000 investment. That's S$200/year, every year. That's more than the minimum commissions Interactive Brokers would charge (US$120/year), and unless you do something very silly the minimum commissions should be more than enough to cover your trading costs to buy a couple funds. (And once you get to US$100,000 the minimum commissions disappear.)

2. Stashaway doesn't provide any information on the foreign exchange rate they're using when you buy and sell the funds they carry, as far as I can tell. They're likely to be much less favorable than what you can get from Interactive Brokers.

3. Stashaway is apparently investing in U.S. listed funds, which (for non-U.S. persons) are subject to 30% U.S. dividend withholding tax and U.S. estate tax. Although they have a slightly higher management fee and trading cost, the Irish domiciled fund equivalents are more tax efficient.

However, if you're going to invest in U.S. listed funds (and ignore the tax considerations), Charles Schwab Singapore offers a better deal on their in-house Schwab funds: zero commissions, even lower fund expenses, reasonable exchange rates (although there's likely a wire charge for withdrawals, so you'll want to minimize withdrawal frequencies), and no Stashaway annual fee. Minimum account opening there is S$25,000.

looking for a fuss-free hands off investing
4. And Stashaway picked the wrong funds for that. The truly fuss-free hands off investing would be with the "Target" funds that Vanguard and some others offer. (Sadly I haven't seen Irish domiciled "Target" funds yet.) The way "Target" funds work is that you pick a target date. Let's suppose you're saving for retirement, and you plan to retire in 2043, plus or minus. There's a "Target 2045" fund, and that's the closest match to your target date. (If you want to be a little more conservative, you could pick Target 2040 instead.) Then you buy that fund at whatever pace you can manage. As the target year approaches, every year (or even every month), the fund automatically and gradually reallocates from stocks to bonds. It might start at 90% stocks and 10% bonds then end up at 30% stocks and 70% bonds, for example. (And the best of these target funds have good international diversification.) Then, starting in your target year, the fund is designed to support steady drawdown -- not all in one lump sum, but as a source of income for several years, or even for life, depending on your drawdown rate.

Anyway, THAT would be the best truly "hands off" fund vehicle. They exist and are popular in the United States, from Vanguard and a couple other fund managers. And, for collecting their 0.8% fee, that's really what Stashaway should be offering (preferably with Irish domiciled funds better geared to non-U.S. persons). If they start offering that, then they get more interesting, maybe. But until then, I think you're better off just getting good advice on a couple funds to pick (or maybe even one), then working with Interactive Brokers, most likely -- and only AFTER taking care of those three imperatives, if you haven't already.
 
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NitrousExpress

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For stashaway-type of investment tools, also got AutoWealth and Smartly. These are very new fintech companies with no track record. It is still not known whether robo-advisors can survive major downturns.

For more established companies, got FSMOne MAPS, Phillips SMART Portfolio or dollarDEX investment portfolio. Their fees are probably more expensive than the new fintech companies.

Since you are looking for hands-off tools, you have to be ready to pay additional fees for their portfolio management services.
You can try splitting your money among all those companies to see which one of them manage your money better. :s13:

thanks for the reply.
the robo-advisors is really appealing to me, cos its just putting in money and do nothing.

what do you mean by splitting my money to all the companies, isn't just 1 better?

are there better fuss-free option for me? Is there such a thing as delegating these investment decisions to an expert trusted individual, and yet earn some money, after deducting fees. note that im only investing a small amount of $50k

sorry if i sound noob, im new to investing.
 

NitrousExpress

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Before you consider investing, please take care of these three financial imperatives first:

1. Pay down high cost debt, such as credit card debt.

2. Insure adequately, which usually means the "Big 3": medical insurance (an "As Charged" Integrated Shield public hospital B2, B1, or A plan, usually), simple term life insurance (only if you have dependents, and only if they would need financial help if you were to die prematurely), and genuine disability income insurance (a basic income stream if you were to become disabled, unable to earn a living). The last of these is "controversial" perhaps, but I don't know why -- it's a very basic concept and defends against calamity.

3. Emergency reserve funds, and typically the best place for those is in a Singapore Savings Bond (SSB).

This fourth one is optional but recommended:

4. Take advantage of CPF top-up tax reliefs. Free money is generally worth collecting.


Stashaway looks decent for small investors, but I have a few quibbles:

1. Stashaway collects an annual fee of up to 0.8%. Suppose you make a S$25,000 investment. That's S$200/year, every year. That's more than the minimum commissions Interactive Brokers would charge (US$120/year), and unless you do something very silly the minimum commissions should be more than enough to cover your trading costs to buy a couple funds. (And once you get to US$100,000 the minimum commissions disappear.)

2. Stashaway doesn't provide any information on the foreign exchange rate they're using when you buy and sell the funds they carry, as far as I can tell. They're likely to be much less favorable than what you can get from Interactive Brokers.

3. Stashaway is apparently investing in U.S. listed funds, which (for non-U.S. persons) are subject to 30% U.S. dividend withholding tax and U.S. estate tax. Although they have a slightly higher management fee and trading cost, the Irish domiciled fund equivalents are more tax efficient.

However, if you're going to invest in U.S. listed funds (and ignore the tax considerations), Charles Schwab Singapore offers a better deal on their in-house Schwab funds: zero commissions, even lower fund expenses, reasonable exchange rates (although there's likely a wire charge for withdrawals, so you'll want to minimize withdrawal frequencies), and no Stashaway annual fee. Minimum account opening there is S$25,000.


4. And Stashaway picked the wrong funds for that. The truly fuss-free hands off investing would be with the "Target" funds that Vanguard and some others offer. (Sadly I haven't seen Irish domiciled "Target" funds yet.) The way "Target" funds work is that you pick a target date. Let's suppose you're saving for retirement, and you plan to retire in 2043, plus or minus. There's a "Target 2045" fund, and that's the closest match to your target date. (If you want to be a little more conservative, you could pick Target 2040 instead.) Then you buy that fund at whatever pace you can manage. As the target year approaches, every year (or even every month), the fund automatically and gradually reallocates from stocks to bonds. It might start at 90% stocks and 10% bonds then end up at 30% stocks and 70% bonds, for example. (And the best of these target funds have good international diversification.) Then, starting in your target year, the fund is designed to support steady drawdown -- not all in one lump sum, but as a source of income for several years, or even for life, depending on your drawdown rate.

Anyway, THAT would be the best truly "hands off" fund vehicle. They exist and are popular in the United States, from Vanguard and a couple other fund managers. And, for collecting their 0.8% fee, that's really what Stashaway should be offering (preferably with Irish domiciled funds better geared to non-U.S. persons). If they start offering that, then they get more interesting, maybe. But until then, I think you're better off just getting good advice on a couple funds to pick (or maybe even one), then working with Interactive Brokers, most likely -- and only AFTER taking care of those three imperatives, if you haven't already.

thanks for the long reply.
my insurances, housing and rainy day emergency funds have been taken care off, no debt other than housing mortgage.

The investing lingo sounds like greek to me, I have almost no investment knowledge. But pretty sure it will help others.
 

intime

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thanks for the reply.
the robo-advisors is really appealing to me, cos its just putting in money and do nothing.

what do you mean by splitting my money to all the companies, isn't just 1 better?

are there better fuss-free option for me? Is there such a thing as delegating these investment decisions to an expert trusted individual, and yet earn some money, after deducting fees. note that im only investing a small amount of $50k

sorry if i sound noob, im new to investing.

I suggested split because I don't know which investment companies' robot will give better returns over time and will survive a major downturn.
The robots are so new locally and there isn't a financial crisis to test their powers yet.
If you don't feel like splitting, you can just find one that you trust.

For portfolio management services, you will have to visit those established companies personally, can't do it online like the robots,
- https://www.poems.com.sg/products/managed-account-services/
This is only one example, there are many, you may have to find them yourself...
 
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BBCWatcher

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For stashaway-type of investment tools, also got AutoWealth and Smartly.
Taking a quick look at these other two options, AutoWealth looks better than Stashaway for account values up to S$250,000 or so. It has the same tax issues, however.

Smartly looks like it has the lowest fee structure once you hit S$100,000 (except for Stashaway at quite large account values), and they promise automatic rebalancing. But they don't provide information on their Web site what ETFs they're using. They say they use 8 ETFs, which is probably fine. Based on the low expense ratios I would guess they're also U.S. listed, so with the same tax considerations.
 

Jupiter2017

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Hi guys, need some help here, new and I have no clue abt investing at all
I have a small $50,000 sitting in the bank now and I’m looking for a fuss-free way of growing this money.
Stashaway caught my eye and I am about to proceed to out my money on this platform.
Is it a wise decision or is there a better way?

looking for a fuss-free hands off investing

TIA
I found a thread on Stashaway, and please read the postings at this link:
http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/money-mind-210/stashaway-discussion-thread-5657352.html

It is not positive.
 

Unlimitedinvesting

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Might want to hit me up with a message. Able to provide you a video guide on investing

Hi guys, need some help here, new and I have no clue abt investing at all
I have a small $50,000 sitting in the bank now and I’m looking for a fuss-free way of growing this money.
Stashaway caught my eye and I am about to proceed to out my money on this platform.
Is it a wise decision or is there a better way?

looking for a fuss-free hands off investing

TIA
 

jermel

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I won't be so fast to jump onboard the fintech/smart robot auto investing just yet. There is a forum on fintech investing for more popular fintech such as moonlah and FS. I encourage you to read up on other investors experience before you decide.

As for the robot investing, there are too many unknown as stated. There is no concrete result whether their purchasing and rebalancing algorithm work as desired. Or even if their system is reliable.

New tech companies like these will always have teething issues to resolve in the first few years.

Putting your money with these unknown is almost as good as buying stock based on so-called "insider news". Not saying they are out to cheat, but until they show some concrete result or a better understanding of how they work by those early adopters.

And when it comes to investment, it is my belief that there cannot be a totally hands-off approach. Even when I do re-balancing for my clients, I make sure they understand the rationale and my methodology.

If hands-off is what the TS wanted, maybe he can consider in a safer bond like SSB or endowment plans.
 
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