It is very scary when doctor say there's nothing more they can do and can discharge the patient...

cyke69sg

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yeah it helps. medical marijuana, ketamine. basically any kind of therapeutic opioids will do.

Not opioids. Opioids are for pain management only. Not for mental health.

Marijuana has many cannabinoids that have different properties. The use of such a broad term like "medical marijuana" is like saying "medical tablets" or "medical syrups". CBD, CBG different from THC and CBN. Still got THCA, CBDA. THCV. CBDV. And terpenes. Myrcene. Beta Caryophylene. Limonene. Bisabolol. Linalool. Pinene.

Ketamine is a dissociative drug. NMDA receptor antagonist.

Psilocybin is a classical psychedelic. 5-HT2A receptor agonist.

The model that shows promise however is mostly therapy focused and using the psychedelics or ketamine as a catalyst for access in therapy.
 

virtualape

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Not opioids. Opioids are for pain management only. Not for mental health.

Marijuana has many cannabinoids that have different properties. The use of such a broad term like "medical marijuana" is like saying "medical tablets" or "medical syrups". CBD, CBG different from THC and CBN. Still got THCA, CBDA. THCV. CBDV. And terpenes. Myrcene. Beta Caryophylene. Limonene. Bisabolol. Linalool. Pinene.

Ketamine is a dissociative drug. NMDA receptor antagonist.

Psilocybin is a classical psychedelic. 5-HT2A receptor agonist.

The model that shows promise however is mostly therapy focused and using the psychedelics or ketamine as a catalyst for access in therapy.
you pharmacist or psychologist??

less pain also less taxing mentally...yeah doesnt alter the brain chemicals unlike those that affect the receptors.

sometimes i think those magic mushrooms can be found locally...as in grown in the wild.
 
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klim668

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If the patient is an elite, they confirm will do something. If he's a peasant, the doctor will check all the checkboxes and just stop right there when there's no more boxes to check.
Hard truth.
 

cyke69sg

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you pharmacist or psychologist??

less pain also less taxing mentally...yeah doesnt alter the brain chemicals unlike those that affect the receptors.

sometimes i think those magic mushrooms can be found locally...as in grown in the wild.
Opioids do alter brain chemicals. Opioids receptors.

As I said. Opioids are indicated in pain conditions only. Also in palliative care for dyspnea.

Can be grown in wild. SG good place for fungi to grow.

Thing is it is illegal though. So when found in the wild it will be destroyed.
 

cyke69sg

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If the patient is an elite, they confirm will do something. If he's a peasant, the doctor will check all the checkboxes and just stop right there when there's no more boxes to check.
Hard truth.
I have sympathy for the elite that suffers as they keep doing treatment even when the odds for positive results are low and the side effects are certain.
 

Winry~

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You know, the next saddest thing is seeing the patient getting worse each day.

On some days they look slightly better, more energetic, able to smile and respond to you.
And the next thing you know, they start to sleep more and more, barely eating anything, getting skinner and weaker each day.

Until the final few moments when they started vomiting reddish brown liquid, having noisy and difficulty breathing, slowly losing the ability to talk and look at you, their eyes just open wide and staring blankly without blinking at all. Mumbling incoherently with eyes darting around.

To slowly hearing their breathing getting more laboured as each minute passed by, the rise and fall of the chest getting more slowly and less obvious. The limbs getting so cool that some devices can't even detect enough to show a reading. It's extremely heart wrenching when using the oximeter to see the readings. Their oxygen level can jump erratically, getting as low as 25% then back to 50%. To finally the device just went blank. No oxygen and no pulse. Even the blood pressure machine shows blank.

You keep nudging them, hoping for a response, even the slightest one will do but there's nothing. It's so hard to face the reality. You keep wishing to go back in time, wishing that everything was just a nightmare and you wanna faster snap out of it. You can't believe that they are gone just like that.
 
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cyke69sg

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You know, the next saddest thing is seeing the patient getting worse each day.

On some days they look slightly better, more energetic, able to smile and respond to you.
And the next thing you know, they start to sleep more and more, barely eating anything, getting skinner and weaker each day.

Until the final few moments when they started vomiting reddish brown liquid, having noisy and difficulty breathing, slowly losing the ability to talk and look at you, their eyes just open wide and staring blankly without blinking at all. Mumbling incoherently with eyes darting around.

To slowly hearing their breathing getting more laboured as each minute passed by, the rise and fall of the chest getting more slowly and less obvious. The limbs getting so cool that some devices can't even detect enough to show a reading. It's extremely heart wrenching when using the oximeter to see the readings. Their oxygen level can jump erratically, getting as low as 25% then back to 50%. To finally the device just went blank. No oxygen and no pulse. Even the blood pressure machine shows blank.

You keep nudging them, hoping for a response, even the slightest one will do but there's nothing. It's so hard to face the reality. You keep wishing to go back in time, wishing that everything was just a nightmare and you wanna faster snap out of it. You can't believe that they are gone just like that.

I hear often from people saying they do not want to die like this. Importantly they do not want their family and friends to remember them ever being like this. It is not how they want to be remembered.

They say there is no purpose in living at this point. It is all just suffering not just for them but for the caregivers.
 

dexboi

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This is precisely why Euthanasia is still not allowed in SG as it opens many cans of worms.
Nobody can gives an absolute answer to WHEN is the right time to administer and WHO to execute... Legal Liability.

And there is this ethical dilemma if patient wants Euthanasia.
Who are the people to determine and set a list of "eligiblity criteria"?
For the sick, dying, last 6mths, mental torture to see loved ones wasting away etc?

It's just too open-ended morality decisions and deep actions to undertake by anyone, especially in Asian culture & perspectives.
 
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Cowbellc

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I feel for you.
Did your dad wish their was the option for medical assistance in dying?

Try to not use euthanasia as a term. Because it does not involve the person's choice. It refers to putting down dogs and cats.

Humans will have the choice. Medical assistance in dying is a better term more reflective of a proper law that both respects a person's choice and protects others against involuntary action.
Thanks bro.
Nope my dad was incoherent. That's why doc seek what is our decision.
To stop resuscitation if heart stop or continue treating. We choose to stop as big doc says it will just prolong the suffering🙁
 

henghengonedragon

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Moi one of the eyes left less than 5 percents vison. Now only go yearly revisit appointment. Doctor also said like that lo. Nothing much they can do. Moi a bit understand yr feeling.
Causes? Do you go see a private/famous one for second opinion?
 

cyke69sg

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This is precisely why Euthanasia is still not allowed in SG as it opens many cans of worms.
Nobody can gives an absolute answer to WHEN is the right time to administer and WHO to execute... Legal Liability.

Law makers will set the rules. Doctors will be trained to assess whether patients meet the eligibility criteria set out in the law. Is not like Singapore has nothing to base on. Got example from other countries.

Who will administer the medications? Likely doctors again.

Use of the term EUTHANASIA goes to show the depth of understanding on this topic. Anyone who says EUTHANASIA is referring more to putting animals down. EUTHANASIA does not involve choice and decision from the person themselves.

You also use "execute". Wah lao eh.

If Medical Assistance in Dying is made legal, there would be no legal liabilities if all conditions were met within the law.

And there is this ethical dilemma if patient wants Euthanasia.
Who are the people to determine and set a list of "eligiblity criteria"?
For the sick, dying, last 6mths, mental torture to see loved ones wasting away etc?

It's just too open-ended morality decisions and deep actions to undertake by anyone, especially in Asian culture & perspectives.

First and foremost, the patient must request for Medical Assistance in Dying.
Then they are assessed by a doctor.
They would likely need to have some incurable illness or have tried all possible treatment options to both cure the condition and relieve the suffering that comes from the condition/s.
The law makers will determine the set of eligibility criteria. In consultation with the public.
It is less about what other people think. Other people see.
More about the patient themselves. They are the ones suffering.
Pain.
Difficulty breathing.
Swelling.
Build up of fluid in lungs or abdomen.
FATIGUE.
Constipation.
Diarrhea.
Nausea.
Vomiting.
Insomnia
Bladder and Bowel incontinence.
Loss of autonomy.
Loss of dignity.
Inability to partake in activities that bring meaning to their lives.
Isolation or loneliness
Preoccupation with future symptoms
Anticipatory suffering - not wanting to reach a state where they are incoherent, unable to do personal self hygiene or care. Lying in soiled diapers waiting for someone to change.
No quality of life. Everyday just waiting to die.

The key is that these choices are initiated and requested by the suffering patient themselves. They will need a totally independent witness to initiate that request. Someone who does not stand to gain through inheritance or any means from that person's death.

Following which they have 2 independent medical doctors do assessments to determine their medical condition is grievous and irremediable.
That the request for MAiD is made voluntarily and not under pressure or duress.
That the patient is in an irreversible state of decline.
There is no chance they will get better.
That they have exhausted all options for treatment or all options that they are willing to undergo. Not everyone will want to have surgery or chemotherapy with the suffering that goes along with it.

It is about whether we give people and individuals this choice. Or do we force them not to have the choice. That they either suffer all the way to the end and what nature or God intends for them. Or do we let them compassionately choose to have medications administered to them so they can end their suffering and avoid that eventual painful outcome?

Bear in mind that this choice does not FORCE anyone to have to have MAiD. Even after assessment and deemed eligible people can choose to die naturally as long as their suffering is still within their tolerance and choice to keep going. But it is an option if they can't.

Or do we force people NOT to have such a choice? Because other people's opinions over ride their choices?

People argue well they can commit suicide right? Well that means die without dignity. And painfully. Also family cannot be present or be at risk of abetting suicide. Die alone. Sad.

Just to share this is typically what happens on the day of MAiD Provision In Canada when the patient has already been deemed eligible and finally requests for MAiD provision.

1. The MAiD navigation team will arrange for a nurse and a doctor (doctor is usually one of the 2 assessors for MAiD and has met the patient) to be present for the stated date and time of provision.
2. Provision can be performed at home, at a hospice, or even a park or garden. Wherever the patient wishes and when it can be arranged.
3. The nurse will set 2 IV lines. Medications are given intravenously. 2nd IV line is back up in case the first one fails.
4. Patient signs the consent form for Medical Assistance in Dying via intravenous medication administration.
5. Patient and family indicate they are ready. They have said goodbye to their loved ones. Their loved ones and family are by their side. Sometimes they lie in bed next to the patient. All questions are answered by the doctor and nurse
6. Medications are administered intravenously.
7. There are usually 4 medications.
a.Midazolam - a sedative to put the patient to sleep. After they fall asleep they are out. Idea is to fall asleep and then they die peacefully in their sleep.
b. Lidocaine - local anesthetic so that the vein used for injection does not have pain when the 3rd medication is given
c. Propofol - a general anesthetic. Is like putting the patient under GA for surgery. Breathing slows and sometimes stops after this medication
d. Rocuronium - neuromuscular blocker that stops diaphragm and accessory muscles of breathing. Patient stops breathing. Oxygen levels fall. Heart gives out due to ischemia.
8. Doctor examines the patient and then pronounces death. "X has passed. I am sorry for your loss".
9. Medical examiner is called and informed that MAiD has been provided. No post mortem is required. Coroner does not need to examine body.
10. Funeral home (family/patient has chosen) is informed. They come to take the body into care about 30 min later.
11. MAiD documentation is faxed to the Medical Examiner. Medical Examiner writes the death certificate.

Takes about 7 -15 minutes from first medication to pronouncing death. After the patient falls asleep, they may breathe like someone sleeping even snore. Eyes usually closed. Then with the third medication they will stop breathing. There is no movement. No struggling. Very peaceful.

Personally I would want to die this way. Can plan to have all my friends visit me beforehand. On day I die my loved ones, pets all by my side. Hold my hand. Hug by my side. Say goodbye. Die peacefully.

It is dying as good as it gets.

Here's a documentary about MAiD

 

mansae

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SG dun have option for medical assisted death.

Often hear people say they rather not go through the pain and suffering. What for? Also not just they suffer but also family suffer.
Also dowan to have children and grandchildren see them slowly get thinner and sicker. Prefer they remember them as not so sickly .

What purpose does it serve for people with terminal illness to have to die naturally where the illness finally overcomes them?

Sounds sadistic to me. Especially if the person prefer not to.

Cos gahmen scared of offending religious groups...hope someone starts a petition to legalise euthanasia, will gladly support
 

cyke69sg

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Thanks bro.
Nope my dad was incoherent. That's why doc seek what is our decision.
To stop resuscitation if heart stop or continue treating. We choose to stop as big doc says it will just prolong the suffering🙁

Gosh. Looks like in Singapore discussions on goals of care are still not common.

Don't talk about Medical Assistance in Dying but whether patients want to be resuscitated or not is important. Especially in settings concerning cancer or other serious life threatening conditions.

Alberta has a robust Goals of Care designation system
R1, R2, R3
M1, M2
C1 , C2

categorydivisions.png


 

cyke69sg

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Cos gahmen scared of offending religious groups...hope someone starts a petition to legalise euthanasia, will gladly support

As I have said many times. Avoid using the word EUTHANASIA. It is for animals. Not humans. When you use the term EUTHANASIA you are basically playing into the hands of the ANTI-CHOICE groups.

https://www.dyingwithdignity.ca/blog/language-matters/

Language matters: Why we use the term ‘medical assistance in dying’​


Why we don’t use the term euthanasia

The root of the term euthanasia comes from the Greek – eu, meaning good, and thanatos, meaning death. A simple definition of euthanasia is “the practice of intentionally ending life to relieve pain and suffering.” So, while technically correct, we avoid this term because of some of its historical associations and because it has been commandeered by the anti-choice movement in Canada. It is also a term used to refer to ending an animal’s life with the use of medications.
 
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Moowoow

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You know, the next saddest thing is seeing the patient getting worse each day.

On some days they look slightly better, more energetic, able to smile and respond to you.
And the next thing you know, they start to sleep more and more, barely eating anything, getting skinner and weaker each day.

Until the final few moments when they started vomiting reddish brown liquid, having noisy and difficulty breathing, slowly losing the ability to talk and look at you, their eyes just open wide and staring blankly without blinking at all. Mumbling incoherently with eyes darting around.

To slowly hearing their breathing getting more laboured as each minute passed by, the rise and fall of the chest getting more slowly and less obvious. The limbs getting so cool that some devices can't even detect enough to show a reading. It's extremely heart wrenching when using the oximeter to see the readings. Their oxygen level can jump erratically, getting as low as 25% then back to 50%. To finally the device just went blank. No oxygen and no pulse. Even the blood pressure machine shows blank.

You keep nudging them, hoping for a response, even the slightest one will do but there's nothing. It's so hard to face the reality. You keep wishing to go back in time, wishing that everything was just a nightmare and you wanna faster snap out of it. You can't believe that they are gone just like that.
Yet the ward room can set to 20degree Celsius and almost no nurse in sight
 

XCalintz

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Nothing is worst than doctor mistreat you and your condition worsened to the point of no return.
 
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