jogging and motivation thread

[rECKleSSfElla]

Another one of those china supertrainers vs EVO SL comparison videos, like a bajillion other similar ones out there. At this point, the Xiaonian has already been so well reviewed as one of the best jack of all trades do it all shoes available. Unless you have some specific requirement or brand preference, you really cant go wrong with a pair of xiaonians.

 

[Ender]

My medium long run @Ender

I started at 7.53pm, finished around 9.40pm. Finished dinner by 10.15pm. I am now having supper at 11.40pm. I am certain that I can still get 7 hours of sleep, just need to be very disciplined.

90% of my run starts around this time, then dinner also very late. But usually no supper, but light snack like some chips, cereals. not those heavy prata or sandwich type. Weekend my long run usually starts after 11pm. These are long runs for the coming Income Eco Run. Very low human and bicycle traffic. But this usually ends with a supper at the 24 hour economy bee hoon or the 24 hour prata place around hougang.

 

[Ender]

3hr and 6hr runner differences

Both would benefit from 90-100g/hr intake.

Misconception of most amateur runners for race day : I am not running as fast, i dont need to fuel / fuel as much as i am very fat optimized.

Further complicated by insufficient carb loading and not eating before the race (overnight your liver is already 70-80% depleted of its glycogen, with the muscle glycogen largely intact).

Females might benefit from in-race fueling even more as they tend to store less glycogen than males.


Of coz if just running for fun timing not big focus on that then no issue lah, got consume can already.

Also watched this today. Very interesting. Gel fueling is something I haven't learn to adapt yet. I haven't nail down a good consumption rate yet. Mainly because training for HM hardly need fueling.

 

[sales69]

Another one of those china supertrainers vs EVO SL comparison videos, like a bajillion other similar ones out there. At this point, the Xiaonian has already been so well reviewed as one of the best jack of all trades do it all shoes available. Unless you have some specific requirement or brand preference, you really cant go wrong with a pair of xiaonians.

Saw this review. Not bad at all. Direct and critical.

Think I won't buy the Anta Zone 2. Just run with Xiaonian and Redhare is enough.

He did mentioned Redhare is unstable but I find it stable.

Then many reviewers find Xiaonian soft while I find it firm.

 

[cherynsq]

my rotation now is:

for fast run (definitely not racing as I’m a slow runner); I use Li Ning Fei Dian 5 Elite

for recovery run (definitely not 5mins/km pace); I use Nike Vomero 15

for raining (definitely at 7min/km pace); I use asics novablast 2 since I have put 400km on it thus far

 

[Jeremy1]

Running lab shoe donation is back!

Anybody know how strict their criteria is? My old shoe can give back anot for $$ anot? No holes, just worn out from running nia

If below lining worn off cannot.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Our side is either late (after 9pm) or early (4-6am), if not, human traffic is insane

Monday evening someone did a similar this on BEG to me. Hellobike group. I think he never see even though i had rather visible lights (def brighter than the Hellobike ones) as he swerved out from his group of 5-6 pax. Last min he swerved back, and i needed to drastic action brake and same time swerve into the pedestrian line.
All these people play play, thought PCN or ECP cycling lane wont accident or accident wont have SCDF case one.

The other incident not so serious, but still close.

Oh yes, my kid went there a couple of times night cycling but weekend (eg morning raining so couldnt go out). After like that he told me never to go there already, it's cursed place on weekend nights. Even more dangerous than road cycling.

 

[rECKleSSfElla]

Saw this review. Not bad at all. Direct and critical.

Think I won't buy the Anta Zone 2. Just run with Xiaonian and Redhare is enough.

He did mentioned Redhare is unstable but I find it stable.

Then many reviewers find Xiaonian soft while I find it firm.

Yar best not to fall into the trap of owning too many of the same type of shoes even though its hard to resist given how cheap china shoes area. Xiaonian and Redhare 9U is pretty much sufficient to cover all usage scenerios, bar raceday if one intends to chiong PB.

Personally, i have been more wowed by the Xiaonian than the Redhare 9U but recently i have been exclusively running in the Redhare with how easy it is to chalk up mileage in these shoes. Only other shoe i might consider getting is the Feidian 6E but since i dont intend to race or anything, probably not getting it anytime soon unless the price drops to a too good to resist level.

 

[WussRedXLi]

my rotation now is:

for fast run (definitely not racing as I’m a slow runner); I use Li Ning Fei Dian 5 Elite

for recovery run (definitely not 5mins/km pace); I use Nike Vomero 15

for raining (definitely at 7min/km pace); I use asics novablast 2 since I have put 400km on it thus far

Novoblast 2 can also use for recovery then, that foam can last 1k km (or even slightly more) for recovery use, no issue one. Or can get similar, like Nimbus, past model also can.....quick check it's like 155 now. I forgot is it the Novablast 4 or 5, many folks here do not like it, too mushy.

 

[Tudo88]

Yar best not to fall into the trap of owning too many of the same type of shoes even though its hard to resist given how cheap china shoes area. Xiaonian and Redhare 9U is pretty much sufficient to cover all usage scenerios, bar raceday if one intends to chiong PB.

Personally, i have been more wowed by the Xiaonian than the Redhare 9U but recently i have been exclusively running in the Redhare with how easy it is to chalk up mileage in these shoes. Only other shoe i might consider getting is the Feidian 6E but since i dont intend to race or anything, probably not getting it anytime soon unless the price drops to a too good to resist level.

Every brand trying to ride on the success of Evo SL, that’s why so many same type of shoes surfacing on the market.

I prefer Xiaonian over Redhare 9U also. I find 9U to be unstable for longer distance. Under 20km is fine I guess

 

[rECKleSSfElla]

Every brand trying to ride on the success of Evo SL, that’s why so many same type of shoes surfacing on the market.

I prefer Xiaonian over Redhare 9U also. I find 9U to be unstable for longer distance. Under 20km is fine I guess

I cant run fast in the 9U while i cant run slow in the Xiaonian so these 2 are complimentary of each other for me.

As for china brands paying homage to EVO SL, i think alot of it is hype and marketing fluff but end of the day i think most folks will still choose EVO SL when you can find a pair of the OG version(not the updated WOVEN, ATR or EXO) sold cheaper than say a pair of Anta Zone 2 90 or Xiaonian. But this is the case for other regions, not SG since somehow this almost 2 years old shoe is still being sold for $209 here.

 

[cherynsq]

Honestly I have use the Fei Dian 5 elite for normal 7 mins pace and it’s just very good cushion . But it doesn’t activate the plate. I feel it’s like a plush Vomero .
Is red hare 9 ultra good ? I’m looking for recovery shoe . My novablast is super bad. Been with me for 4 years already

 

[lovemyself123]

what is a china shoe that is most alike superblast 3???

 

[s_mario]

Just wondering, you train somewhat close to failure (maybe 1 or 2 reps in reserve) for your main exercises like calves, quads, glutes right? Or you train lightweight and just do X mumber of sets and Y number of reps and call it a day. I see many many runners do this......a key way to tell is that their last 1 or 2 reps, the speed is very shun one, no slow down no nothing. Face / body not stressed, swee swee going thru motion.......

Another thing might due to plyometrics....not sure if you do. The instantaneous peak loading you can get is much higher also.

i usually train heavy.. close to failure or like what u say 1 to 2 reps in reserve.. plyometrics i do little..

 

[WussRedXLi]

i usually train heavy.. close to failure or like what u say 1 to 2 reps in reserve.. plyometrics i do little..

Great, seems that everything is swee swee. Plyo not say very impt, as long as you are doing it every now and then, it does add up over time.

Dang it, actually my right forearm internally, the tendon connecting to the fingers also a wee wee bit pain after yesterday's pull up training. (coz of the grip and what nots). Today ok liao.
Muscles really grow > tendon a heck lot faster more.
I think i'd also better deload next week, dont play also it really sucks to be injured (somemore i am middle aged so lagi slower recovery)

 

[WussRedXLi]

PB in top speed, have never hit over 60 before in any way. Mandai end part after SLE which is downhill, or the downhill part before SLE not sure, but confirm is after the columbarium. Seated max effort but i really focussed in the aero position.

Today PH and long weekend, roads/traffic were super! (and even if there was traffic, all were chillax and in zero hurry, can sense one)

 

[Kuudere]

I think you can as you are young and might possibly not have the sleep issues that plague the older folks like me, as long as you can hit the 7hrs and also min 2hrs deep sleep and possibly min 3 hrs light sleep.

I also like night workouts, but unfortunately from my own testing, i dont think it is optimal, even for easy sessions. Still would affect even for easy sessions. And i cannot push it before 8pm, my place here is a total nightmare, be it traffic or PCN. In fact just a few nights ago i nearly got involved in 2 PCN accidents on the dedicated cycling lane during my 8.15pm session (usually i'd get out of home at 9-9.15pm).

You can ask sph777, he will tell you the same thing.

I am going to change everything to early morning sessions liao, see if it helps my performance. Coz i am also not merely training for running/cycling, but also after gains in my fundamental calisthenics and also things like BSS, split stance RDL.
It seems doable i am able to fit things in (also simply coz i run to work which is nearby 1km away), as long as i sleep by 10pm (I slept at 9pm last night) i will be able to wake up at 5.30am latest.

We do so much training follow this and that plan pay so much for coaching for some even, fuel so nicely and follow nutritional plan so closely, buy so many shoes for some, but without PROPER recovery which is also one of the MAIN pillars, is really wasted one.

But of coz, still testing in progress for me. I am not sure if it translates into better performance.
Really need to test it out in reality and see if the theory holds.

Last night.
Sleep was better than 82% of other users in their database. No night session last night.

BTW, the first and second big chunk of deep sleep is very important, best for it to be as "wide" as possible. It's all the good stuff that are found here, from CNS recovery to HGH release by the pituitary gland to muscle tissue repair, everything. This is the peak recovery for us.

Go for morning runs if you have the luxury to do so. For myself, I am just going to stick to evening runs on weekdays because it's significantly more practical for me.

The problem for weekday morning runs is that it doesn't work well with pfitz plan. For example, you run 19km long run on weekday which takes 1hr 50 minutes for me. I wake up at 5.40am (which I tried to do today), start the run at 6am. By the time I reach back, it's 8am assuming I don't slow down or traffic light, etc. It's too much rush especially if I have to go to work.

I have to take 40 minutes to travel to work by 9am. That's why I don't do morning runs on weekdays.

But I do morning runs on weekends or holidays like today. I woke up at 5.40am, went for long run, I can take my time because I don't need to go work. I can also nap after my run and get in the recovery I need. And I can clock 30-40% of my weekly mileage on weekends because I can do 3 runs on weekdays and 2 runs on weekends.

Regardless whether I run morning or evening, I still get at least 7 hours+ consistently and a lot more on weekends with the naps included (9-10 hours).

Just today, I already slept 7.5 hours (main) + 1 hour (nap), I am going to nap again after lunch.

3hr and 6hr runner differences

Both would benefit from 90-100g/hr intake.

Misconception of most amateur runners for race day : I am not running as fast, i dont need to fuel / fuel as much as i am very fat optimized.

Further complicated by insufficient carb loading and not eating before the race (overnight your liver is already 70-80% depleted of its glycogen, with the muscle glycogen largely intact).

Females might benefit from in-race fueling even more as they tend to store less glycogen than males.


Of coz if just running for fun timing not big focus on that then no issue lah, got consume can already.

I think carb intake is subjective for runners. For myself, I tried this today and it caused GI failure. So, I will tell you what didn't worked for me (today) and what worked for me.

Pre-run: Eat one slice of bread + banana (20 minutes before)
During run: Gel (36g carb) 8km in + 7 sips of water from water cooler, did the same at 13km in.
Average pace: High 5.3x - Low 5.4x

What happened: Bloatedness, sticky stomach, a lot of phlegm, nausea. I managed to run 21km, but was struggling 15-16km in.

Now, to what worked for me.

Pre-run: Didn't eat anything
During run: Gel (36g carb) 10km in + hydrate 5 sips of water 8km, 13km, 19km in.
Average pace: 5.11 min/km, with 16km at 4.58 min/km

What happened: Finished the run strong and ran 26km, with no issues.

What I will do next.

Pre-run: Don't eat anything
During run: Gel (36g carb) 10-12km in + hydrate 4 sips of water 8km, 13km, 19km (every 5-6km). Get in another gel 10-12km in.

I have GERD (gastro-esophageal reflux disorder) so that's why my stomach is lot more sensitive. And from testing out my runs, I learnt that. @xllms Maybe something for you to consider as well.

90% of my run starts around this time, then dinner also very late. But usually no supper, but light snack like some chips, cereals. not those heavy prata or sandwich type. Weekend my long run usually starts after 11pm. These are long runs for the coming Income Eco Run. Very low human and bicycle traffic. But this usually ends with a supper at the 24 hour economy bee hoon or the 24 hour prata place around hougang.

My weekday runs depends on when I reach home from work. If I actually rush, earliest is still early 7pm. If I take my time, then late 7pm.

Which is actually quite late. By the time I reach the track, I can see national runners cooling down by 8pm. I am usually the last runner to leave the track at 9.30pm.

You will definitely look forward to a night race haha Despite my long run not looking good this week, but I am quite happy with my 8km threshold run pace (4.15 min/km). Not prepared for the marathon yet but should be able to run a fast time for IER. Can target top 10 @sph777

 

[xllms]

Go for morning runs if you have the luxury to do so. For myself, I am just going to stick to evening runs on weekdays because it's significantly more practical for me.

The problem for weekday morning runs is that it doesn't work well with pfitz plan. For example, you run 19km long run on weekday which takes 1hr 50 minutes for me. I wake up at 5.40am (which I tried to do today), start the run at 6am. By the time I reach back, it's 8am assuming I don't slow down or traffic light, etc. It's too much rush especially if I have to go to work.

I have to take 40 minutes to travel to work by 9am. That's why I don't do morning runs on weekdays.

But I do morning runs on weekends or holidays like today. I woke up at 5.40am, went for long run, I can take my time because I don't need to go work. I can also nap after my run and get in the recovery I need. And I can clock 30-40% of my weekly mileage on weekends because I can do 3 runs on weekdays and 2 runs on weekends.

Regardless whether I run morning or evening, I still get at least 7 hours+ consistently and a lot more on weekends with the naps included (9-10 hours).

Just today, I already slept 7.5 hours (main) + 1 hour (nap), I am going to nap again after lunch.

I think carb intake is subjective for runners. For myself, I tried this today and it caused GI failure. So, I will tell you what didn't worked for me (today) and what worked for me.

Pre-run: Eat one slice of bread + banana (20 minutes before)
During run: Gel (36g carb) 8km in + 7 sips of water from water cooler, did the same at 13km in.
Average pace: High 5.3x - Low 5.4x

What happened: Bloatedness, sticky stomach, a lot of phlegm, nausea. I managed to run 21km, but was struggling 15-16km in.

Now, to what worked for me.

Pre-run: Didn't eat anything
During run: Gel (36g carb) 10km in + hydrate 5 sips of water 8km, 13km, 19km in.
Average pace: 5.11 min/km, with 16km at 4.58 min/km

What happened: Finished the run strong and ran 26km, with no issues.

What I will do next.

Pre-run: Don't eat anything
During run: Gel (36g carb) 10-12km in + hydrate 4 sips of water 8km, 13km, 19km (every 5-6km). Get in another gel 10-12km in.

I have GERD (gastro-esophageal reflux disorder) so that's why my stomach is lot more sensitive. And from testing out my runs, I learnt that. @xllms Maybe something for you to consider as well.

My weekday runs depends on when I reach home from work. If I actually rush, earliest is still early 7pm. If I take my time, then late 7pm.

Which is actually quite late. By the time I reach the track, I can see national runners cooling down by 8pm. I am usually the last runner to leave the track at 9.30pm.

You will definitely look forward to a night race haha Despite my long run not looking good this week, but I am quite happy with my 8km threshold run pace (4.15 min/km). Not prepared for the marathon yet but should be able to run a fast time for IER. Can target top 10 @sph777

yes, i used to have GERD as well, less issues these few years, which is probably i prefer not to eat anything before any runs. Another helpful practice for me on longer runs is to break up into 2, eg. a water break in between to fuel my body before a return run of similar distance (usually 10-12km one way).

While I have not look into refueling during my runs since I don't run marathons, at most HM. I am also unwilling to spend money on fueling packages for my runs at the moment (running is meant as a low cost recreational activity). But I have run enough to have some observations on myself, which my energy level usually begin to drop after approx. 90min.

So if I start doing refueling for my runs, my strategy will be every 60-75min regardless of distance. In the event I do a HM, i suppose i will refuel at around 10km (60min) and around 17-18km (60+45min), and have fluid intake in between 60min and 105min mark, and probably another one after the 105min mark, keeping my body well fueled to push harder for the last stretch.

 

[HirotoXeno]

Who already pin their tag for 2XU already?

 

[WussRedXLi]

Go for morning runs if you have the luxury to do so. For myself, I am just going to stick to evening runs on weekdays because it's significantly more practical for me.

The problem for weekday morning runs is that it doesn't work well with pfitz plan. For example, you run 19km long run on weekday which takes 1hr 50 minutes for me. I wake up at 5.40am (which I tried to do today), start the run at 6am. By the time I reach back, it's 8am assuming I don't slow down or traffic light, etc. It's too much rush especially if I have to go to work.

I have to take 40 minutes to travel to work by 9am. That's why I don't do morning runs on weekdays.

But I do morning runs on weekends or holidays like today. I woke up at 5.40am, went for long run, I can take my time because I don't need to go work. I can also nap after my run and get in the recovery I need. And I can clock 30-40% of my weekly mileage on weekends because I can do 3 runs on weekdays and 2 runs on weekends.

Regardless whether I run morning or evening, I still get at least 7 hours+ consistently and a lot more on weekends with the naps included (9-10 hours).

Just today, I already slept 7.5 hours (main) + 1 hour (nap), I am going to nap again after lunch.

I think carb intake is subjective for runners. For myself, I tried this today and it caused GI failure. So, I will tell you what didn't worked for me (today) and what worked for me.

Pre-run: Eat one slice of bread + banana (20 minutes before)
During run: Gel (36g carb) 8km in + 7 sips of water from water cooler, did the same at 13km in.
Average pace: High 5.3x - Low 5.4x

What happened: Bloatedness, sticky stomach, a lot of phlegm, nausea. I managed to run 21km, but was struggling 15-16km in.

Now, to what worked for me.

Pre-run: Didn't eat anything
During run: Gel (36g carb) 10km in + hydrate 5 sips of water 8km, 13km, 19km in.
Average pace: 5.11 min/km, with 16km at 4.58 min/km

What happened: Finished the run strong and ran 26km, with no issues.

What I will do next.

Pre-run: Don't eat anything
During run: Gel (36g carb) 10-12km in + hydrate 4 sips of water 8km, 13km, 19km (every 5-6km). Get in another gel 10-12km in.

I have GERD (gastro-esophageal reflux disorder) so that's why my stomach is lot more sensitive. And from testing out my runs, I learnt that. @xllms Maybe something for you to consider as well.

Wow.......good sharing and good testing. That's the spirit, need to actively test and get the info.

I dont suffer from chronic GERD, but i suspect some days i do reflux a bit esp when i eat too full. Then at night when i sleep, i would taste the dinner. Then end up i need to take activated charcoal, if not stomach really bloated, maciam like food poisoning feeling like that. Cannot sleep one, like wanna vomit if i dont take activated charcoal. This happens like once every month frequency. Sometimes it stretches for 2-3 days a stretch.


Yeah if cannot work then LL bo bian, see if wanna train for it or not. If not then stick with the current and see what paces you can do and if it works.
If 36g of gel and with zero breakfast, then stick with it with the intensity.
The intensity really is also one key factor, of coz as you get closer to LT1/LT2 paces it would be more terok.
For some, i guess maybe even easy pace might be jialat.


Share with you since this morning i also burned a fair bit.

Last afternoon and evening carb loaded as much as i could with 3 meals all with carbs....at night 2 bananas. This morning before i went out i ate 70g of instant noodles (for sodium as well) which has 53g of carbs as per label, and 1 banana. From Tg Pagar to Kovan along Serangoon road, 12km in @ Kovan i ate 2 bananas. Then hit punggol before Punggol Nth Ave i drank my 250ml packet of season iced lemon tea (now all the drinks healthier, i think 4.5g per 100ml so that is just 11g). All this is zone 2.
Then i went to round Seletar Aerospace one round there at tempo/LT2 effort, started to sip my Kang Shi Fu honey green tea (7.4g/100ml). Reached Yishun ave 1 and continued to eat my Xiao ding dang jap snacks but also minimal carbs lah, i think those 2pcs max 10g.
Continued to sip and finished Kang Shi Bo honey green tea at Sembawang Rd junction before Mandai Rd.

All these beverages is basically HFCS-55, 55% fructose and 40-45% glucose. Glucose is high GI "instant energy" kinda kick that can be used by our muscles cells by conversion into ATP immediately or for latter use. Fructose is lower GI, needs to be metabolized by the liver to become glucose, which then becomes the "instant energy" as mentioned above, but this takes approx 90 mins.

Anyway, enough waffling too much science, basically we just look at g/hr lah, or at least how many grams you can tahan for the whole course / how many hours of duration.

For me just now the ride was not a race, but i need the calories. According to the Magene bike computer algo, i burned 2.2k calories. A HM at my weight of 72kg male according to AI is around 1.55k, a FM around 3.1k. Not sure if the AI figure can be directly compared to my Magene bike computer, but just a very rough ballpark for comparison is can lah.

I think the algo compares the speed and elevation also, and also how frequent is the start-stop nature which you cannot avoid on some bike routes. It's like a vehicles start-stop city traffic flow vs highway non-stop, the gas mileage different one.

So basically adding all up, including the BF of 53g carbs from indomie, 3 bananas = 80g, ice lemon tea 11g, kang shi bo 37g, xiao ding dang snack 10g. Can say for this morning, i consumed total of 191g carbs. Round it up to 200g, coz i drank some F&N Zapple as well.
Assume yesterday i carb loaded as much as i could (most probably not lah, but it was decent) and this morning i started with breakfast as first consumption of carbs. But after consuming, i started the ride like immediately from my house, this is not a run or marathon. No need warm up for me. Reached Eu Tong Sen, i hoot Z2/LT1 RPE liao.


Higher RPE of around LT2, was 1 round at Seletar Aerospace (i think 2km length) including the lead up to SA from Seletar North road, and then whole of Mandai, iirc that one is like 7.8km length.
In fact latter part of Mandai after BKE, i was like VO2max/anaerobic/neuromuscular effort.......that's how i hit new top speed PB.

Also, when i nearly reached home, i hit the stretch of West Coast Highway before Keppel Rd and started to wind up after Kampong Bahru junction after Sentosa Gateway. So for that WCH stretch all the way to Keppel Rd just before Cantonment Link i usually would cheong one. Able to maintain no lower than 40kmh and i peaked 46 kmh for this 1.6km stretch.


But most important thing is this, i went to MBS for final cool down (Anson Rd/Robinson Rd to MBS promnitory already started cooling down, relac 20-25kmh pace already) and i know that time i hit the bonk limit already. Coz i wanted to accelerate and did not find the power to even get above 30kmh and even before i reached 1 Marina Boulevard i started to have serious hunger pangs (Grehlin/Leptin hunger hormones? The signal by the brain already started). Tried to hoot again at BEG, no way.....i never really got above 33kmh and the bonk + low energy feeling really started to present itself.
Guai guai U-turn and returned home at BEG Sheares Bridge. I wanted to top off with 100km by going to Guillemard just after Sports Hub but i could not.
After u-turn i hit Marina Barrage and sheet feeling really came, i could only limp at 20-25kmh.