jogging and motivation thread

[GlassDoor]

actually... that bridge... when half-ed... each side can have 3 runners... but if you walked that part., then **** lah...

me think first crossing should be ok when most are still fresh ie will not be walking. But on the return back i am guessing much more walkers and they can potentially choke up. anyhow maybe overthinking it. Maybe I also walking. so choke or no choke no consequence

 

[hellhole]

me think first crossing should be ok when most are still fresh ie will not be walking. But on the return back i am guessing much more walkers and they can potentially choke up. anyhow maybe overthinking it. Maybe I also walking. so choke or no choke no consequence

no no no.. this is singapore marathon ..aka.. singapore walkathon ..

if you walk..just keep to a side lah...

like i say.. tahan a bit...soon will have 2 bridge...

 

[hellhole]

frankly speaking i am excited for that 2nd bridge... those strava will be intresting... hahaha...

 

[GlassDoor]

frankly speaking i am excited for that 2nd bridge... those strava will be intresting... hahaha...

2029 no? uncle here will have gracefully back off from running insane FM distance by then...

 

[WussRedXLi]

I am training in two pairs of AP3 currently which I use for long tempos and long runs. And have another new pair of AP3 and a AP4 which I only used to run a HM TT. So no shortage of race day shoe. I am undecided on AP3 or AP4 for race day thou. AP4 is imho is a bit too "fast" for my current confidence level and AP3 while does not feel as "super" is impeccable at holding on to target pace. Will decide nearer race day.

Ok, i guess do what you are most familiar with........coz regardless of any shoe, 3:10 bao jiak Boston.

 

[WussRedXLi]

my personal take of the test is that it is highly personalised. Also means. it depends on how you run. ie your bio mechanics. And looking at the chart my guess is that he is more of a stride runner which flavours bounce over roll as can be seen from FD6E being no 2 and bmai JT3 being almost last. I ran in the JT3 a while ago and imho its a high cadence runners best friend. On that note Bmai Jingtan 4 is out!

Edit: imho it also depends on the pace which is tied back to the bio mechanics. i believe many will have used a race day shoe for recovery runs before and feel that it is not as efficient as using a daily trainer for that pace.

Yeah for sure it depends on biomechanics and safest to say these results would be true to us whose running style is tied to him closely. That is why i mentioned "wow, Matt's LT2 pace is 3:!4". Which i think you would not be tooooo far away, maybe that is your VO2max 3k pace or something. So, still usable for this info even if you are "just" doing 3:20-3:30 pace for eg next time should you wanna pursue 5k or something.

To be able to run around 3:15 plus minus and assuming all of us the usual 1.72 to 1.8m tall, stride length and cadence wont be immensely off when running that pace .

eg, last time i mentioned before some folks neuromuscularly cannot run fast at 3:15 even for shorter distances, simply coz their nervous system just cannot fire at and gun out comfortably over say 175-180spm....they just feel something is off neuromuscularly . And at that kinda height and subsequent leg length, you wont hit that pace then. And of coz, mobility wise, you'll need to stride suffiiciently as well in addition to muster over 185spm for eg......coz if lagi cannot stride and also cannot muster that spm cadence comfortably, then that is why some folks cannot even break 4:00 pace in running intervals. (not talking about sprint distances of 100-200m which is unsustainable)

But definitely these shoe not for the slower paces, needless to say, which actually is vast majority of super shoe. Most of these also not meant to heel strike, except for a very minor number of elite athletes who can heel strike stuff like vaporfly and still pull things off and run good result.....those are special cases.
And of coz, for HM/FM, the vast majority of amateur runners would be slower. But if wanna play 2.4 to 5k, possible.



Anyway, this is how he runs, at a Kenta alt camp. That time he training for 2:20 FM, so ~ 3:19 pace.

Can just use a tapper app and see what is his cadence, his pace is also there and then you can make out his stride length......if anyone is really interested.
But seriously, it's gonna be more similar than different if you can muster that kind of pace in the first place and we are talking about similar heights. (there are sometimes people with short torso and long legs and vice versa, not unheard of in cycling, bell curve ba)
I found out that Matt Fox is 1.83m tall.

 

[Kitaro9202]

anyone back knee pain when running up or down slope?

Me recently have this issue after running down or up slope my right back knee pain.

Sound like i need to run on a flat surface

 

[sph777]

I am training in two pairs of AP3 currently which I use for long tempos and long runs. And have another new pair of AP3 and a AP4 which I only used to run a HM TT. So no shortage of race day shoe. I am undecided on AP3 or AP4 for race day thou. AP4 is imho is a bit too "fast" for my current confidence level and AP3 while does not feel as "super" is impeccable at holding on to target pace. Will decide nearer race day.

For me I have plaid 3 and feidian elite 6. Think elite 6 is too unstable for full hence as mentioned before prob will go elite 6 for decathlon half and plaid 3 for bydsim

 

[sph777]

me think first crossing should be ok when most are still fresh ie will not be walking. But on the return back i am guessing much more walkers and they can potentially choke up. anyhow maybe overthinking it. Maybe I also walking. so choke or no choke no consequence

I rmb previous marathons was ok as long as no public using the bridge.

 

[sph777]

no no no.. this is singapore marathon ..aka.. singapore walkathon ..

if you walk..just keep to a side lah...

like i say.. tahan a bit...soon will have 2 bridge...

2 bridge now for this route, merdeka and sheares. 3 if include WCH as bridge haha. In the future prob more like you said

 

[WussRedXLi]

I just had a look at the C202 G9, seems like they are marketing it towards sub 3:30 FM runners......or 4:59 pace.

I think if you are aiming to do something like a sub-20 for 5k or sub-40 for 10 or sub 1:25 for HM, you'd be largely fine with that info.

 

[hellhole]

2029 no? uncle here will have gracefully back off from running insane FM distance by then...

ah ****... hope i survive by then.. hahaha

 

[WussRedXLi]

Anyway, this is how he runs, at a Kenta alt camp. That time he training for 2:20 FM, so ~ 3:19 pace.

Can just use a tapper app and see what is his cadence, his pace is also there and then you can make out his stride length......if anyone is really interested.
But seriously, it's gonna be more similar than different if you can muster that kind of pace in the first place and we are talking about similar heights. (there are sometimes people with short torso and long legs and vice versa, not unheard of in cycling, bell curve ba)
I found out that Matt Fox is 1.83m tall.

Ok, i just did the tapper test. He is doing ~ 185spm at 3:30-3:45 pace for his workout. So he was striding at 1.44m to 1.54m.
Esp at the 8:30 min mark, you can hear his running footsteps, can easily sync your app and tap accordingly to the audio, and you'd get ~ 185spm

 

[WussRedXLi]

anyone back knee pain when running up or down slope?

Me recently have this issue after running down or up slope my right back knee pain.

Sound like i need to run on a flat surface

Probably something to do with the hammies, and maybe the calves.

Try a single leg calf raise, with or without load and also straight and bent knee version to tease out whether it is gastroc or soleus issue, see if it triggers. If triggers then it's the calves.
If not, then test the hammies.....say a bridge or something similar, or with resistance bands if you have them and secure one end with left feet and then you pull the other end up with a hamstring back kick with the other , see if triggers or not.
Then you'd know which area to focus on with strength and conditioning rehab.

Just rest until it is not too irritated/pain and then start your strength and conditioning stuff which hopefully aids your running biomechanics, and also dont increase mileage so fast (try 3-5% weekly). Dont rest for too long.
It could also be related to a muscle imbalance issue, anterior chain vs posterior chain kinda thing.

Avoiding things wont build resilience in tendons, it's just avoiding the problem and there is still a chance that you run on a flat surface you will still trigger similar issues in future if you made any training errors.

 

[GlassDoor]

Yeah for sure it depends on biomechanics and safest to say these results would be true to us whose running style is tied to him closely. That is why i mentioned "wow, Matt's LT2 pace is 3:!4". Which i think you would not be tooooo far away, maybe that is your VO2max 3k pace or something. So, still usable for this info even if you are "just" doing 3:20-3:30 pace for eg next time should you wanna pursue 5k or something.

To be able to run around 3:15 plus minus and assuming all of us the usual 1.72 to 1.8m tall, stride length and cadence wont be immensely off when running that pace .

eg, last time i mentioned before some folks neuromuscularly cannot run fast at 3:15 even for shorter distances, simply coz their nervous system just cannot fire at and gun out comfortably over say 175-180spm....they just feel something is off neuromuscularly . And at that kinda height and subsequent leg length, you wont hit that pace then. And of coz, mobility wise, you'll need to stride suffiiciently as well in addition to muster over 185spm for eg......coz if lagi cannot stride and also cannot muster that spm cadence comfortably, then that is why some folks cannot even break 4:00 pace in running intervals. (not talking about sprint distances of 100-200m which is unsustainable)

But definitely these shoe not for the slower paces, needless to say, which actually is vast majority of super shoe. Most of these also not meant to heel strike, except for a very minor number of elite athletes who can heel strike stuff like vaporfly and still pull things off and run good result.....those are special cases.
And of coz, for HM/FM, the vast majority of amateur runners would be slower. But if wanna play 2.4 to 5k, possible.



Anyway, this is how he runs, at a Kenta alt camp. That time he training for 2:20 FM, so ~ 3:19 pace.

Can just use a tapper app and see what is his cadence, his pace is also there and then you can make out his stride length......if anyone is really interested.
But seriously, it's gonna be more similar than different if you can muster that kind of pace in the first place and we are talking about similar heights. (there are sometimes people with short torso and long legs and vice versa, not unheard of in cycling, bell curve ba)
I found out that Matt Fox is 1.83m tall.

yes and no. again it boils down to individuals. that's why always take those the best of these and the best of that type of info with a very big tablespoon of salt. Agree that when you run at under 3:30 speed or faster speed cadence and stride length do start to converge but personally i believe there are still fundental differences which influence your gait cycles.

my form and gait actually mirrors asian females runners at the semi elite level. example.. for an easy/recovery pace my cadence starts at a low 190 with very short stride length almost like shuffling automatically and subconsciously. the reverse is true for most male recreational runners they start will a relatively low cadence and maintain a relatively longer stride length compared to mine. As I ramp up speed.. i tend to hold a sweet spot between 196-200 before moving up again cos comfortable stride length can no longer keep up.
And from what I read it's actually genetics and has to do with what sort of neuromuscular system you have. For some it's efficient for them to maintain a low cadence and more power in their stride without tiring. Others have a very switch-on nervous system and find it more efficient to maintain a very high base cadence.

for me that's the fun and nerdy part of running. everyone is different.

 

[GlassDoor]

Ok, i just did the tapper test. He is doing ~ 185spm at 3:30-3:45 pace for his workout. So he was striding at 1.44m to 1.54m.
Esp at the 8:30 min mark, you can hear his running footsteps, can easily sync your app and tap accordingly to the audio, and you'd get ~ 185spm

he is definitely a stride runner. for a cadence runner you are looking at easily 200+ spm at that speed already.

 

[WussRedXLi]

he is definitely a stride runner. for a cadence runner you are looking at easily 200+ spm at that speed already.

yes and no. again it boils down to individuals. that's why always take those the best of these and the best of that type of info with a very big tablespoon of salt. Agree that when you run at under 3:30 speed or faster speed cadence and stride length do start to converge but personally i believe there are still fundental differences which influence your gait cycles.

my form and gait actually mirrors asian females runners at the semi elite level. example.. for an easy/recovery pace my cadence starts at a low 190 with very short stride length almost like shuffling automatically and subconsciously. the reverse is true for most male recreational runners they start will a relatively low cadence and maintain a relatively longer stride length compared to mine. As I ramp up speed.. i tend to hold a sweet spot between 196-200 before moving up again cos comfortable stride length can no longer keep up.
And from what I read it's actually genetics and has to do with what sort of neuromuscular system you have. For some it's efficient for them to maintain a low cadence and more power in their stride without tiring. Others have a very switch-on nervous system and find it more efficient to maintain a very high base cadence.

for me that's the fun and nerdy part of running. everyone is different.

Wah yours so high ah even for 3:45. Then maybe, just maybe, Matt's info might not be super relevant, but stilli think you can try next time as you are armed with this info shd you wanna dabble with chinese shoes.

From what you said, guess you like to hit the limit for cadence first before trying consciously to stride longer as you increase pace.
For me i just vary both accordingly + simultaneously. And only when i hit my max stride length (i suspect around 1.6m) then i lan lan increase cadence, that is only for my SITs, Sprint Interval Training......for 75m.
That one i hit as high as 220, so it isnt so much that my neuro firing rate cannot handle > 200spm.
Side note : for SIT, more or less i put it as 220spm max, 2:10 min/km pace, so peak max stride is 2.1m at top speed mathematically speaking, but of coz that's for 75m and that is only for very short transient peaks and of coz also dont know how zhun is the pace coz so transient short.


For eg yesterday i ran 3:15-3:20 range for my 3k i was doing like 188-190spm, range, which seems to suggest relatively high cadence but then again to hit that esp with my 1.74m height and 79cm inseam (the height from floor to balls/crouch area...cyclists like to measure this as a basic measurement) you'd need to have sufficient stride as well.....if not how to run. lol

Still, i think it should be more similar than different......i think all the sufficient fast runners are well served by these Plaid 3, Danian , Xtep 160.

Too bad he didnt throw in a western brand shoe from each major brand say Adidas, Nike, Puma. That'd be very interesting then.

I know of one Chinese youtuber who is clearly a cadence runner, in fact i'd call it "Super Cadence" runner. He runs at 210-215 one, even at slower paces of 4-5:00. Super power, dont know how his neuro is wired one. See if i can find his vids and show ya.

 

[WussRedXLi]

Wah......Glassdoor, that also means your cardio no joke.....i more or less remember your HR also not say super high, if you maintain such a rather high cadence for comparatively long distances (your 15k TT?), even at ~ 3:50 pace. Since you'd subconsciously like to hit cadence limit first before striding.

 

[GlassDoor]

Wah yours so high ah even for 3:45. Then maybe, just maybe, Matt's info might not be super relevant, but stilli think you can try next time as you are armed with this info shd you wanna dabble with chinese shoes.

From what you said, guess you like to hit the limit for cadence first before trying consciously to stride longer as you increase pace.
For me i just vary both accordingly + simultaneously. And only when i hit my max stride length (i suspect around 1.6m) then i lan lan increase cadence, that is only for my SITs, Sprint Interval Training......for 75m.
That one i hit as high as 220, so it isnt so much that my neuro firing rate cannot handle > 200spm.


For eg yesterday i ran 3:15-3:20 range for my 3k i was doing like 188-190spm, range, which seems to suggest relatively high cadence but then again to hit that esp with my 1.74m height and 79cm inseam (the height from floor to balls/crouch area...cyclists like to measure this as a basic measurement) you'd need to have sufficient stride as well.....if not how to run. lol

Still, i think it should be more similar than different......i think all the sufficient fast runners are well served by these Plaid 3, Danian , Xtep 160.

Too bad he didnt throw in a western brand shoe from each major brand say Adidas, Nike, Puma. That'd be very interesting then.

I know of one Chinese youtuber who is clearly a cadence runner, in fact i'd call it "Super Cadence" runner. He runs at 210-215 one, even at slower paces of 4-5:00. Super power, dont know how his neuro is wired one. See if i can find his vids and show ya.

from what you describe. I will say you fall into the stride runner group. at the 3:15-3:20 range i am already above 210+ cadence easily already. and the key to this info is that you can then optimise your training or beef up weakness. All this is from my training last year trying to crack sub 40 10k. I had to increase strength training and pyro to increase power in my stride.

anyhow... is us two old farts rambling. I think for folks reading... just run more.. and in order to run more.. you have to enjoy it... and in order to enjoy it.. it has to be slow.

 

[milkiee]

Now I am still undecided for this year BYD FM..last year I trained and unfortunately got injured in August and had to pass my bib to my colleague who finished in 4:30 hrs.

This year . The longest single run was last month 26km at 2hrs 24mins . If I could managed to hit 28km to 30km by end august and also must learn to to fuelling with energy gel. Then I should be ready by Dec . My Target time is to go Below 4:30 hrs.

can one la. until now my furthest run is only 25km at 2:38hrs lol
26KM @ 2:24hrs is already very fast liao confirm can below 4:30hrs.
think sub4 also no problem.