learning japanese

Ah_keong

Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
7,801
Reaction score
1
Hi all, i'm planning to continue studying my japanese and need some advice here.

studied in poly and passed jlpt 4 last year.
reading basic stuff is no problem but speaking is a big problem.

am planning to go Ikoma or Bunka.
which one is more suitable if i want to learn writing,reading and conversational skills?

thanks:)

hmm, then u need more conversational and listening practise... Assuming you are strong in vocab and grammer....

if you would choose BUNKA, i would suggest you start from scratch till the end of intermediate or JLPT 3 equivalent...

if you choose IKOMA, i would suggest you speak to the senseis there, then they will place you at a level which will be comfortable for you... :D
 

Ah_keong

Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
7,801
Reaction score
1
Bunka elementary 1 - 30hrs - $315 (inc gst + txtbk)
Ikoma elementaty 1 - 60hrs - $580 (inc gst + txtbk)

Felt that bunka is a bit rush... Dun know whether can manage a not.
Ikoma seems slower, but felt that can manage own pace better.

Wah, confusing... Of course, price wise bunka is cheaper.... any advise.

But temp ikoma no slot liao... so think bunka???

Maybe you can try registering IKOMA at a later date?
do you have a time constrain to start learning Japanese? :D
 

Ah_keong

Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
7,801
Reaction score
1
Hi everyone!

Back from Oosaka...

wow, the gals there are really fierce... :D

Home sweet home at last!
 

Ah_keong

Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
7,801
Reaction score
1
nope leh, went to work with my friend so not much sight seeing...

heard from his japanese counterparts, that shin sekai is quite dangerous... :D

is tsutenkaku tower taller than tokyo tower?
 

Ah_keong

Supremacy Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2008
Messages
7,801
Reaction score
1
no need jealous lah...

i went there to assist my friend's work not go there holiday leh... the only fun thing i had was watching japanese tv in the hotel room while doing my work...

i hope i can save enough money for Hokkaido this December... :D
 

azumangadaioh

Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2009
Messages
254
Reaction score
0
Introduction to 国文法:活用

In 国文法, there's no such verbs that belong to Group 1, Group 2, Group 3/Irregular verbs.

All verbs are categorized under the following

五段動詞(Group 1): Verbs changes based on あ、い、う、え、お-段

上一段動詞(Group 2): All special verbs like 生きる、見る

下一段動詞(Group 2): All verbs that end with え sound.

カ変動詞 (Group 3): 来ます

サ変動詞 (Group 4): します
=================================
In the Japanese that we learn, we learn things like ない-form, ます-form, 辞書形、可能形、意向形,etc

In 国文法, the forms are

1.未然形 (imperfective form)
2.連用形 (conjunctive form; continuative form)
3.連体形 (participle adjective; attributive form)
4.終止形 (predicative form)
5.仮定形 (hypothetical form)
6.命令形 (imperative form)
=========================
In Japanese schools in Singapore, e.g JCS, students are taught that the base form used to switch to other forms is 辞書形 (dictionary form)

In Japan, the base form always start from 連用形 (ます-form minus the ます)

e.g:

五段動詞

買います (buy)

Step 1: Identify the 連用形, 買います->買い

Step 2: Identify which form you wish to change, e.g maybe you want ない-form (未然形 in 国文法)


Remember Hiragana Chart:
あ (わ)、い、う、え、お


Step 3: Change to 未然形


未然形: 買い (連用形) -> 買わ (未然形)

ない-form: 未然形+ない
受身形: 未然形+れます
使役形: 未然形+せます

Answer: 買わない
=======================================
一段動詞 (Group 2)

一段動詞 got this characteristic.

Everything is just 連用形+___________

e.g

ない-form: 連用形+ない
辞書形(終止形): 連用形+る
==============================
These are just some examples.

You might not see the benefits just by seeing this...
The hidden benefit is that students who study this will be able to construct sentences faster in conversation, another thing is just by seeing the verb, the sentence can know which group it belongs to, without having to change to dictionary form or memorizing.

If you were to ask a Japanese (exclude Japanese teacher), what's a い-adjective and a な-adjective, they won't know. But if you were to say, 形容詞 and 形容動詞, they would understand.

If you were to look at those old published China books, you would realise they in the book, there's no Group 1, 2 or 3. China is following 国文法 to teach.

Unless you learn this system, if not it would be hard for you to know the benefits easily.

One thing to note is: Japanese ppl grow up speaking Japanese, while we non-native speakers have to pick everything up from a blank state. So growing up speaking at home [ before they reach school going age like primary school ] has already enabled them to speak non-polite form easily, only when they start going to school will they start learning polite form [ and others ], which also possibly means dictionary form based grammar and words are already learnt, so probably that's why the teaching system for them means words are not based on dictionary form.

In the place I work, occasionally there will be Japanese mothers [ I seldom see fathers ] tugging children along passing by, it's interesting to always hear them speak non-polite form to each other [ especially those children below 6-7 years old ], and how those picture books that introduces hiragana, animals, objects in daily life to toddlers learning to read are presented in non-polite form.

I guess it's just how a person is attuned to how information is presented and taught to them, as I used to learn ます form first and the rest later at my first language school [ Bunka was the school where the 2nd attempt to learn was made ], and was struggling when かた and なかった stuff was presented later on. Now it's a lot easier [ for me ] to just remember 1 dictionary form and derive the rest offhand.

Most people probably also don't realise that Japanese is ranked the top 5 difficult languages to learn by an adult learner by the US Foreign Service Institute.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Language_Learning_Difficulty_for_English_Speakers
http://web.archive.org/web/20071014...otw/months/november/learningExpectations.html

and probably one of the few languages that has developed 2 different systems to teach native speakers and non-native speakers...
 

dimitri_can

Supremacy Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2005
Messages
7,731
Reaction score
26
One thing to note is: Japanese ppl grow up speaking Japanese, while we non-native speakers have to pick everything up from a blank state. So growing up speaking at home [ before they reach school going age like primary school ] has already enabled them to speak non-polite form easily, only when they start going to school will they start learning polite form [ and others ], which also possibly means dictionary form based grammar and words are already learnt, so probably that's why the teaching system for them means words are not based on dictionary form.

I think this question only a native Japanese can answer. ;)

I guess it's just how a person is attuned to how information is presented and taught to them, as I used to learn ます form first and the rest later at my first language school [ Bunka was the school where the 2nd attempt to learn was made ], and was struggling when かた and なかった stuff was presented later on. Now it's a lot easier [ for me ] to just remember 1 dictionary form and derive the rest offhand.

Most people probably also don't realise that Japanese is ranked the top 5 difficult languages to learn by an adult learner by the US Foreign Service Institute.
and probably one of the few languages that has developed 2 different systems to teach native speakers and non-native speakers...

See.. you learned something.. :D

If you take a look at Minna No Nihongo, they also use 連用形... Anyway, as long as u can speak the correct verb and conjugate properly, i think it's alright.

In the whole Singapore, i guess there's only 1 school that teaches 国文法... and i heard that students from that school score 80% and above for JLPT and able to hold a conversation decently.
 
Last edited:

affa14

Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2000
Messages
306
Reaction score
0
Most people probably also don't realise that Japanese is ranked the top 5 difficult languages to learn by an adult learner by the US Foreign Service Institute.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Language_Learning_Difficulty_for_English_Speakers
http://web.archive.org/web/20071014...otw/months/november/learningExpectations.html

and probably one of the few languages that has developed 2 different systems to teach native speakers and non-native speakers...

Interesting...Wah I didn't know Japanese is one out of five most difficult to learn...:s22: But according to the table, that's for native English speaker, non-native English speaker might be different...Coz I've learned Arabic before(also in the same category) but not that hard as it uses alphabet unlike Japanese IMHO..:D
 

kumori

Junior Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
解答

クイズを出せていただきます。興味にある方にはぜひ試してみてください。3日後解答をお出しします。

下記の二つの表現のうち、使い方として正しいのはどちらでしょう。

A)バスの走行中は席を立たないでください。

B)バスが走行中は席を立たないでください。

解答

正しいのはAです。「走行中」は、「走っている間」という表現と同じ意味を表します。だとすると、「バスが走行している間」と言うことができるのですが、「バスが走行中」という言い方もできそうに思えます。

しかし、「走行中」は品詞としてはあくまでも名詞です。「バスが運行に支障をきたした」や「授業が開始が遅れた」のような言い方をしないことからもわかるように、名詞が表す事柄の主体を表すために「が」を用いることはできません。この場合に主体を表すために用いられる助詞は「の」であって、「バスの運行」「授業の開始」を言わなければなりません。

同じように、「走行中」の主体が「バス」なのですから、これを表すためには「バスの走行中」と言わなければならないのです。「到着前」や「発車後」のような、同様の表現についても同じで、「バスの到着前」「電車の発車後」とするのが文法的に正しい表現です。

とはいえ、「走行中」は、普通の名詞とはやはり違っていて、何が走っているのか表さなければ、不完全な言い方に思えてしまいます。ということは、文の述語と同じような特徴をもっているということで、だからこそ、文と同じように主体を「が」で表したくなるのでしょう。
 

azumangadaioh

Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2009
Messages
254
Reaction score
0
I think this question only a native Japanese can answer. ;)



See.. you learned something.. :D

If you take a look at Minna No Nihongo, they also use 連用形... Anyway, as long as u can speak the correct verb and conjugate properly, i think it's alright.

In the whole Singapore, i guess there's only 1 school that teaches 国文法... and i heard that students from that school score 80% and above for JLPT and able to hold a conversation decently.

I think only senseis that are trained [ have to undergo special training ] to teach Japanese to non-native speakers will be qualified to answer that [ as opposed to one in a non-language teaching occupation ]. Since they would have been exposed to both systems to make comparions...
 

dimitri_can

Supremacy Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2005
Messages
7,731
Reaction score
26
hohoho.... <笑>

azumangadaioh君はそう思っていますか。
日本語の勉強をがんばってください。
 
Last edited:

fox1

High Supremacy Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2001
Messages
28,008
Reaction score
561
解答

正しいのはAです。「走行中」は、「走っている間」という表現と同じ意味を表します。だとすると、「バスが走行している間」と言うことができるのですが、「バスが走行中」という言い方もできそうに思えます。

*クット*

Yeah! :s12:
 
Important Forum Advisory Note
This forum is moderated by volunteer moderators who will react only to members' feedback on posts. Moderators are not employees or representatives of HWZ Forums. Forum members and moderators are responsible for their own posts. Please refer to our Community Guidelines and Standards and Terms and Conditions for more information.
Top