Leveraged annuity

fluffydream

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Seeking opinion whether leveraging to purchase annuity is a good idea even though I do have the premium on hand to pay for a plan. Understand that it does maximise the returns but there r some risks.

My agent is recommending this annuity product with loan from rhb. What should I take note ?
 

boredboiboi

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Seeking opinion whether leveraging to purchase annuity is a good idea even though I do have the premium on hand to pay for a plan. Understand that it does maximise the returns but there r some risks.

My agent is recommending this annuity product with loan from rhb. What should I take note ?

Plan from company M? If the interest gets too high in the future, are you able to swallow or pay off?
 

boredboiboi

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0.55% is cheap. How to get this loan ?

After the + is about 1.036 to 1.186% for this month.
The loan is for purchasing the plan on leveraging.

In aug the rate was cof+(0.55 to 0.7)
In sept the rafe is cof+(0.65 to 0.8)
Oct is coming, have to wait for the rate and update accordingly.
 
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BBCWatcher

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And it's a variable interest rate, of course.

You shouldn't buy dog food -- I could use a stronger word than food -- even with currently low cost financing. Is this something you'd be doing anyway, even without low cost financing? Because there are tons of investments (and "investments") available on margin. Also, the basic idea is that you assume all the risk of interest rate hikes, and the seller of this product collects a hefty commission regardless. The leverage multiplies the commissions, quite simply, and that's the #1 (and #2, #3, and #4) reason(s) why you're getting this pitch. We're seeing lots of posts like yours in this forum with lots of salespeople pushing these constructions.

Market interest rates are currently very low, and (one would think) this isn't the ideal time to take the "rates will stay the same or even fall" side of the bet. But that's just a guess. If you feel differently, so be it.

Does this debt affect how much other borrowing you can do? One would think so. Does that detail matter? Maybe, sometimes.
 
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xtwis7

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Understand you are taking up the financing so you just need to make sure that you do have the full premium sum set aside somewhere should you need to redeem the loan and also sustain any significant increase in rates.

If you’re intending to get another property, this will also affect your TDSR so do calculate these sums properly. All in, I still very much prefer a leveraged annuity vs a property since the downpayment concept works exactly the same. Assumption was for a new property under construction and not a resale since you can collect rental immediately vs the annuity which typically starts from 4th year.
 

JuniorLion

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Can do interest-Only payment infinitely.

100k loan @2% is 2000 or less than 200/month.

Can make capital repayment any time you wish.
 

fluffydream

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Can do interest-Only payment infinitely.

100k loan @2% is 2000 or less than 200/month.

Can make capital repayment any time you wish.

I suppose the income payout fr the plan should be more than the loan interest, then it will make sense ?
 

fluffydream

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Understand you are taking up the financing so you just need to make sure that you do have the full premium sum set aside somewhere should you need to redeem the loan and also sustain any significant increase in rates.

If you’re intending to get another property, this will also affect your TDSR so do calculate these sums properly. All in, I still very much prefer a leveraged annuity vs a property since the downpayment concept works exactly the same. Assumption was for a new property under construction and not a resale since you can collect rental immediately vs the annuity which typically starts from 4th year.

At the stage of not going to get any property. I see...But nope.
 

fluffydream

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And it's a variable interest rate, of course.

You shouldn't buy dog food -- I could use a strong word than food -- even with currently low cost financing. Is this something you'd be doing anyway, even without low cost financing? Because there are tons of investments (and "investments") available on margin. Also, the basic idea is that you assume all the risk of interest rate hikes, and the seller of this product collects a hefty commission regardless. The leverage multiplies the commissions, quite simply, and that's the #1 (and #2, #3, and #4) reason(s) why you're getting this pitch. We're seeing lots of posts like yours in this forum with lots of salespeople pushing these constructions.

Market interest rates are currently very low, and (one would think) this isn't the ideal time to take the "rates will stay the same or even fall" side of the bet. But that's just a guess. If you feel differently, so be it.

Does this debt affect how much other borrowing you can do? One would think so. Does that detail matter? Maybe, sometimes.

Well aware that they earn both from loan and the product itself. And am not going to borrow for the foreseeable future for any other areas.

Any comments then what other products to purchase on margin or methods .
I've been rolling fd after fd as well as all also max out all the short term plans e.g. gigantiq, dash , etiqa and the older GE and capital plus tranche. Done all the nec cpf contributions, srs. Can't VC as well. Have robo. Just looking at alternative ways to work money harder at acceptable risk.
 

Value.Matrix

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Well aware that they earn both from loan and the product itself. And am not going to borrow for the foreseeable future for any other areas.

Any comments then what other products to purchase on margin or methods .
I've been rolling fd after fd as well as all also max out all the short term plans e.g. gigantiq, dash , etiqa and the older GE and capital plus tranche. Done all the nec cpf contributions, srs. Can't VC as well. Have robo. Just looking at alternative ways to work money harder at acceptable risk.

Can try traded endowments but take note of the 0 terminal bonus risk. (unlikely but possible) or reduced terminal bonus risk
 

boredboiboi

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Manulife Signature Income (II)

Exploring this as a legacy planning tool + income instead of just pure legacy planning tool in the form of a UL where we wouldn't be able to use the money.

So buying it in the kids name, so for as long as we are around, we will get the payout and when we pass on the kids will will continue to receive the payout during the lifetime.

Looking at using premium financing for this.

Conventional wisdom seems to suggest that this is a decent plan given that it provides a constant stream of income for as long as the kid is around and is capital guaranteed.

Yes acknowledged. that doing DCA into World Index Fund might get higher returns and cheap etc, but considering that has been taken care of, but still got some idle cash sitting around. Any reason why this might not be a good idea?

Based on current premium financing rate, the guaranteed portion of the payout is more than sufficient to cover the interest payout hence it is almost like self financing. Even when interest rate goes up, interest rate has to hit like around 2.15% for the guaranteed payout = interest payment.

yes the non-guaranteed is in its name non-guaranteed. but what I understand is insurer will almost always pay it based on 4.75% due to bonus smoothing. so the returns can be as high as 11+%

The only time it will not be self funding is when interest rate goes up to like 5.75% or if the payout cannot be made at the 4.75% project returns. in either case, i recognised that it can happen, though chances of it happening may not be that likely anytime soon. That being said, will still have funds ready to pay off the principle if that ever happens. but thinking of leveraging to get higher returns.

Sounds no different from buying an investment property for rental income, but stream of income is more constant.

Yes Its similar to property income but this plan capital will guaranteed to increase over the years. And income got min guaranteed without worrying of no tenants too and etc.
 
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