Mpeg2 or mpeg4 ??

mitch_liheyi

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Hi guys,

Sry if this is in the wrong section.
Between the 2, which is better for video quality?
Mainly for storing videos, and digging them out for watching at a later date.
The file size does not matter.
And also, whats with bitrate? Quality wise i mean.
Hope someone can help me here.
Thx guys!
 

davidktw

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Hi guys,

Sry if this is in the wrong section.
Between the 2, which is better for video quality?
Mainly for storing videos, and digging them out for watching at a later date.
The file size does not matter.
And also, whats with bitrate? Quality wise i mean.
Hope someone can help me here.
Thx guys!

MPEG4. Between MPEG2 and MPEG4, MPEG4 supposedly have better quality to offer at low bitrate than MPEG2 at the same bitrate, however, for high bitrate, I have not read about how is the difference between MPEG2 and MPEG4.

Howadays MPEG4/H.264 is the standard for video distribution, also H.264 has the most common hardware accelerated support at the moment. So go with MPEG4 unless you need to fit into a DVD standard.

Update: I got you what you need to know http://www.sundancemediagroup.com/articles/frameserving_Part_2.htm
 
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peterchan75

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Mpeg2 is DVD quality(for PAL 720x576 pixel). You can burn this format in DVD media and play on any DVD or Blueray players.

Mpeg4 is HD quality(for PAL from 720x576 to 1920x1080 pixel). You need a blueray burner + blueray media in order make a blueray disc and play on a blueray player. Currently, both burner and media are expensive. You need at least a quad core PC to edit and a lots of hard disk space.

For the same video clip, mpeg4 needs 5X the space of mpeg2.

Most digital camera can shoot mpeg4(AVCHD) format video. HD video cams are affordable too.

If you want quality, mpeg4 is the way to go.

Here are more info.
What is Blu-ray Disc, AVCHD and HD DVD? - VideoHelp.com
 

davidktw

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Mpeg2 is DVD quality(for PAL 720x576 pixel). You can burn this format in DVD media and play on any DVD or Blueray players.

Mpeg4 is HD quality(for PAL from 720x576 to 1920x1080 pixel). You need a blueray burner + blueray media in order make a blueray disc and play on a blueray player. Currently, both burner and media are expensive. You need at least a quad core PC to edit and a lots of hard disk space.

For the same video clip, mpeg4 needs 5X the space of mpeg2.

Most digital camera can shoot mpeg4(AVCHD) format video. HD video cams are affordable too.

If you want quality, mpeg4 is the way to go.

Here are more info.
What is Blu-ray Disc, AVCHD and HD DVD? - VideoHelp.com

Curiously, are you referring to the same video resolution when you mentioned MPEG4 requires 5x the space of MPEG2 ?
 

peterchan75

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Curiously, are you referring to the same video resolution when you mentioned MPEG4 requires 5x the space of MPEG2 ?

I am refering to the length of the video. Technically, it's possible to author a DVD in VCD resolution. Similary, HD in DVD resolution. The only advantage is one can cramp in longer video with media space. Generally, we want max resolution for PAL DVD is 720x576 and HD is 1920x1080. This will translate to 5X space for HD vs DVD.
 

davidktw

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I am refering to the length of the video. Technically, it's possible to author a DVD in VCD resolution. Similary, HD in DVD resolution. The only advantage is one can cramp in longer video with media space. Generally, we want max resolution for PAL DVD is 720x576 and HD is 1920x1080. This will translate to 5X space for HD vs DVD.

Noted about the less resolution for any particular standard. But when you say MPEG4 takes up 5x more space than MPEG2, I'm wondering if it is an Apple to Apple comparison on same video length and also same resolution too ?

When you say MPEG2 and MPEG4, you are comparing the container and also the codec used assuming standard codec for each of the container.

If the comparison is across different video length and/or different resolution, then it is not a fair statement to say that MPEG4 takes up 5x more space than MPEG2, isn't it ?
 
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peterchan75

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You can do a simple experiment. Just take any AVCHD clip and encode to DVD format(720x576) and compare the filesize. I am not saying which encoding is more efficient. I am just stating the fact that HD format needs more space than DVD as it contain higher resolution.
 

mitch_liheyi

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Icic.
So how does the bitrate actually work? In relation to mpeg 2/4.
I try copying the dvd, mpeg 2, high quality, 1920 x 1080, 10000 bitrate.
File size of around 10/11gd. Seems to be as gd as the dvd itself.

And another, mpeg4/h264 acc3. Same resolution. File size was of course much smaller.
However, the images appeared pretty pixelated. And a bit jerky.

I am copying the dvd to store on an external hdd for connecting to a mac, then mirroring to apple tv. Just for, you know. Occassions when theres gatherings, and u wanna watch some movies. As ur know, dvds tend to get scratched. Especially when there are much younger children around.
 

peterchan75

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For DVD/mpeg2, the bitrate should be around 6 to 8Mbps(max 9.8Mbps). I don't think mpeg2 cannot go beyond 720x576 resolution. It must be mpeg4. Of course, smaller filesize means that the video is highly compressed. Lower bitrate = lower file size = lower video quality.
 

davidktw

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You can do a simple experiment. Just take any AVCHD clip and encode to DVD format(720x576) and compare the filesize. I am not saying which encoding is more efficient. I am just stating the fact that HD format needs more space than DVD as it contain higher resolution.

If your comparison is between a larger sized HD quality video at a much higher resolution than a DVD quality video of lower resolution, then requirement of much more space is noted.

But my point is just to clarify that MPEG4 doesn't bring about more space requirement than MPEG2. In fact, it is likely less for the same quality.
 

davidktw

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Icic.
So how does the bitrate actually work? In relation to mpeg 2/4.
I try copying the dvd, mpeg 2, high quality, 1920 x 1080, 10000 bitrate.
File size of around 10/11gd. Seems to be as gd as the dvd itself.

And another, mpeg4/h264 acc3. Same resolution. File size was of course much smaller.
However, the images appeared pretty pixelated. And a bit jerky.

I am copying the dvd to store on an external hdd for connecting to a mac, then mirroring to apple tv. Just for, you know. Occassions when theres gatherings, and u wanna watch some movies. As ur know, dvds tend to get scratched. Especially when there are much younger children around.

Encoding is an art, you don't just merely use the same bitrate between codecs and then compare the quality. The fact that MPEG4 can bring more savings in space is first the algorithm employed are more sophisticated, next you need more encoding time using these more sophisticated techniques. Also the decoding complexity also increased, that's why for good quality MPEG4 encoded video, normally hardware accelerated or assisted decoding is required and for encoding, the time required is a lot more. The priority here is quality per unit size that we are trying to achieved here.

Bitrate across the video is often averaged in a VBR video that is employed in MPEG4. MPEG2 also be VBR but there are some older versions of hardware player that may not be able to decode such MPEG2 DVD and hence they are often encoded in CBR.

For VBR, there is either a single pass encoding or multi pass encoding. For multi pass encoding, normally 2 passes are used but there is option for 3 passes encoding.

On first pass, encoder analyze the video and assigned allocated birtate to each frame or block of frames by analyzing the complexity of the scene. On second pass, the encoder perform the actual encoding adjusting the quantisation matrix to fit the allocated bitrate.

At the end, the actual bitrate displayed to a video is an average bitrate. It does not mean the whole video is using that bitrate thru out. Based on the actual profile constraint, encoder respect by ensuring max bitrate is not exceeded. Players that comply to these profiles will ensure they can still continue to play the video when bitrate spikes and also other features like the maximum number of B and P frames between I frames etc.

In MPEG4 there are numerous features like motion estimation distance and different searching patterns to help make more accurate comparison between frames to ensure better compression.

Like all encoding, use a good source. Never use another encoded source like MPEG2 and encode into MPEG4 and perform comparison. It just get worse all the time due to the lossy nature of video encoding.
 

peterchan75

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If your comparison is between a larger sized HD quality video at a much higher resolution than a DVD quality video of lower resolution, then requirement of much more space is noted.

But my point is just to clarify that MPEG4 doesn't bring about more space requirement than MPEG2. In fact, it is likely less for the same quality.

My point is as per your 1st statement. For backup purpose, one need to be mindful of storage space and keeping original capture format so as to maintain video quality. Hard disk is not a reliable storage medium. Best is still DV tape store in an humidity control chamber.

As for your 2nd statement, I leave it to the purist. For portability and viewing convenience, authoring video to DVD or HD compliant disc is the best.
 

sunsetbay

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For DVD/mpeg2, the bitrate should be around 6 to 8Mbps(max 9.8Mbps). I don't think mpeg2 cannot go beyond 720x576 resolution. It must be mpeg4. Of course, smaller filesize means that the video is highly compressed. Lower bitrate = lower file size = lower video quality.

mpeg2 can go upto 1080p, 40Mbps if u want~ m2ts itself is a mpeg2 video stream found in bluray~ :s22:
 

davidktw

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You can refer to here for ...
DVD compliant specs.
What is DVD? - VideoHelp.com

Blu-ray compliant specs.
What is Blu-ray Disc, AVCHD and HD DVD? - VideoHelp.com

Use MediaInfo to look what is inside the media file.
MediaInfo 0.7.62 - VideoHelp.com Downloads

I think this topics has digressed. TS asked for choosing for codec for archival. There is no mentioning of compliant to distribution standards.

DVD is a subset of MPEG2, as such based on MPEG-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, there is nothing stopping storage of HD resolution for MPEG2.
 

sunsetbay

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You can refer to here for ...
DVD compliant specs.
What is DVD? - VideoHelp.com

Blu-ray compliant specs.
What is Blu-ray Disc, AVCHD and HD DVD? - VideoHelp.com

Use MediaInfo to look what is inside the media file.
MediaInfo 0.7.62 - VideoHelp.com Downloads

the 2nd link said Bluray supports MPEG2, MPEG-4 AVC & VC-1~ your earlier remark on "mpeg2 cannot go beyond 720x576 " is not true~

here's the media info of a Sony BD test clip in mpeg2~ oh ya, u dun need to dwnload mediainfo, its already in kmplayer~ :s22:

 
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