Need help with whole life plan

[teo.wayne]

Quite simply, you're f**ked really, really hard when you lose all or most of your earning potential in Singapore, particularly early to mid career. It's an absolutely catastrophic event.

and.. i agree. I'll look into DII coverage as well.
Thanks for your info.

 

[teo.wayne]

I posted above in another thread earlier, below additional points all my own views:

Why buy insurance?

Eg if I get hospitalised for some reasons or kena CI, I dun want my hard earned monies to be wiped out and donated to the doctors. I want insurance to help supplement my savings, not replace it.

If u spend so much of your income on insurance premiums expenses, how much can u save for emergency use? So dun over insure, hoping insurance will replace your lost income or leave u a legacy should something happen but never happen

Focus your time and effort on your increasing your earning power and increasing your savings is more important, then u can self insure. If u cannot even save or dun have enough income, u still want to donate to the insurer?

I buy whole life which covers death, tpd and ci, started with 50k, cos insurance only supplement not replace (that is very expensive). As my income increase, I add on. With whole life, it is a form of savings, not donating the money to the insurer, if nothing happens, I get my money back with interest to enjoy for retirement. With whole life, the sum assured increases over the years, so 50k becomes more than 150k now.

I'm setting aside less than 10% of my annual income on insurance to cover what I feel is necessary. In your opinion, is that a lot (over-insuring)?

 

[mSnooze]

Finally.
Yes, you got this part right.
My dad was a cancer patient. Saw how his agent got him to buy countless of saving plans but nothing to cover for CI (is it because it's expensive, hence hard to sell so agents don't really bother?). Thank goodness his hospitalisation plan (one thing done right at least) covered $300k of his surgical and medical expenses but I witnessed how that 1-1.5 years of income loss as a result of inactivity has caused him so stress. If he had only gotten a CI plan to pay him a lump sum to cover that income loss for that period, he would have been in a much better position.

I, like most of you, have never quite believed in giving money to insurance companies until this incident. Point is, I don't wish to be caught in a similar situation, I'm comfortable being safe than sorry.

Because people likes to listen to how much they will earn/get in return and don't like to listen to negative stuffs. Your dad probably met them through roadshows, as roadshows are difficult venue for proper planning.

The purpose of insurance is to reduce risk exposure. Risk differs from everyone and thus some buy more, some less.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Thank goodness his hospitalisation plan (one thing done right at least) covered $300k of his surgical and medical expenses but I witnessed how that 1-1.5 years of income loss as a result of inactivity has caused him so stress. If he had only gotten a CI plan to pay him a lump sum to cover that income loss for that period, he would have been in a much better position.

Disability Income Insurance (DII) would have covered much/most of that income loss when he was unable to work. Moreover, DII would have covered most of his income loss if he was unable to work for 20 years, for example -- up to the length of a full working career with retirement at age 65 (or up to age 70 with the MINDEF/SAF Disability Income Insurance). CI only pays out a lump sum, if it pays out, and then after that money runs out -- it certainly will run out if you're unable to work for years -- you're f**ked.

DII would also have covered him if his income loss was due to getting run over by a bus, for example. CI doesn't cover that; it only covers "critical illnesses," a fairly short list of specific ailments and maladies. (Who cares why you cannot work? You cannot work, and that's the problem.)

In fairness, DII might not have been available in Singapore when he was in the market for such insurance. But it's available now in Singapore, from three carriers.

 

[teo.wayne]

Disability Income Insurance (DII) would have covered much/most of that income loss when he was unable to work. Moreover, DII would have covered most of his income loss if he was unable to work for 20 years, for example -- up to the length of a full working career with retirement at age 65 (or up to age 70 with the MINDEF/SAF Disability Income Insurance). CI only pays out a lump sum, if it pays out, and then after that money runs out -- it certainly will run out if you're unable to work for years -- you're f**ked.

DII would also have covered him if his income loss was due to getting run over by a bus, for example. CI doesn't cover that; it only covers "critical illnesses," a fairly short list of specific ailments and maladies. (Who cares why you cannot work? You cannot work, and that's the problem.)

In fairness, DII might not have been available in Singapore when he was in the market for such insurance. But it's available now in Singapore, from three carriers.

Sounds reasonable and it certainly makes sense but I have a few questions if you don't mind answering:
1) the definition of "unable to work". Say for example, a person is no longer able to work because he is ill, and then he got retrenched given this condition. Assuming he gets well after 1 year but couldn't get a job until 2 years later, is he covered during all these 3 years? To him, it's 3 years of income loss. Because as much as the coverage sounds extensive, might not be as easy to claim.
2) do you have a rough quote for DII if I'm looking to protect about $15,000/month of salary? (you can pm me if it's not convenient to state here).

Thanks bro.

 

[teo.wayne]

Because people likes to listen to how much they will earn/get in return and don't like to listen to negative stuffs. Your dad probably met them through roadshows, as roadshows are difficult venue for proper planning.

The purpose of insurance is to reduce risk exposure. Risk differs from everyone and thus some buy more, some less.

All I can say is, they didn't meet through roadshows. He's been my parents' agent for the last decade, surely he would have known better what my parents need exactly and not what is easier to sell to them.

 

[BBCWatcher]

Assuming he gets well after 1 year but couldn't get a job until 2 years later, is he covered during all these 3 years? To him, it's 3 years of income loss. Because as much as the coverage sounds extensive, might not be as easy to claim.

To repeat, DII is not Unemployment Insurance (UI). Critical Illness insurance is not UI either. If you're fit for work and unemployed, for whatever reason(s) you're unemployed, then DII doesn't provide payouts.

In the scenario you describe, DII would pay at least 6 to 10 months of benefits (how long depends on the policy's waiting period, which can range from 2 to 6 months depending on carrier and policy). If he's fully fit for work after those 12 months, then payouts would stop.

Can we agree that being both fit for work and unemployed in Singapore for two years is a voluntary choice? Yes, it's entirely possible to be retrenched and not able to find a job with a similar salary, but that's already true, every day. Neither DII nor CI are designed to cover retrenchment risks. UI is, but unfortunately UI is barely available in Singapore since the moral hazard problems with it are difficult for a private market to address, and the government doesn't seem interested in UI.

2) do you have a rough quote for DII if I'm looking to protect about $15,000/month of salary? (you can pm me if it's not convenient to state here).

I'm not an insurance salesperson, and I'm not selling anything else for that matter.

To obtain quotations for DII, contact the three insurance carriers discussed here, and also ask for a quotation on Aviva's MINDEF/SAF Group Disability Income Insurance if you qualify for that. You will need to provide the agent with information about your profession -- if the agent is not sure which profession you fit into on the agent's list, and if two or more choices on the agent's list genuinely match your profession, ask the agent to run the premium both/multiple ways -- and how long you'd like the policy to run (to age 65 I'd recommend), how long a waiting period you want (6 months I'd recommend if offered, or longest available if no choice), and what amount of monthly income you want to insure (up to 75% of current income, except for the Group MINDEF/SAF plan which is up to 50%). I recommend you pick a reasonable number that you could live on and not necessarily insure up to the maximum ($11.2K) if you're pulling down $15K/month. One of the three insurers also offers an escalating payout option -- that is, once payouts start they escalate each year -- and I think I would choose that. Ask for a copy of the full policy letter, and read it carefully. Pay close attention to how well the policy tolerates working stints outside Singapore and bouts of unemployment (how long you can be unemployed before coverage lapses) -- these details can matter. You are free to "stack" policies if you wish, i.e. buy some amount of coverage from Carrier A and some amount from Carrier B, as long as the total coverage is still within the 75% "moral hazard" limit. And sometimes it makes sense to do that, actually. Maybe one carrier has a great premium promotion, but you like another carrier's T&Cs better, so you mix some coverage across those two carriers.

Good luck.

 

[teo.wayne]

To repeat, DII is not Unemployment Insurance (UI). Critical Illness insurance is not UI either. If you're fit for work and unemployed, for whatever reason(s) you're unemployed, then DII doesn't provide payouts.

In the scenario you describe, DII would pay at least 6 to 10 months of benefits (how long depends on the policy's waiting period, which can range from 2 to 6 months depending on carrier and policy). If he's fully fit for work after those 12 months, then payouts would stop.

Can we agree that being both fit for work and unemployed in Singapore for two years is a voluntary choice? Yes, it's entirely possible to be retrenched and not able to find a job with a similar salary, but that's already true, every day. Neither DII nor CI are designed to cover retrenchment risks. UI is, but unfortunately UI is barely available in Singapore since the moral hazard problems with it are difficult for a private market to address, and the government doesn't seem interested in UI.


I'm not an insurance salesperson, and I'm not selling anything else for that matter.

To obtain quotations for DII, contact the three insurance carriers discussed here, and also ask for a quotation on Aviva's MINDEF/SAF Group Disability Income Insurance if you qualify for that. You will need to provide the agent with information about your profession -- if the agent is not sure which profession you fit into on the agent's list, and if two or more choices on the agent's list genuinely match your profession, ask the agent to run the premium both/multiple ways -- and how long you'd like the policy to run (to age 65 I'd recommend), how long a waiting period you want (6 months I'd recommend if offered, or longest available if no choice), and what amount of monthly income you want to insure (up to 75% of current income, except for the Group MINDEF/SAF plan which is up to 50%). I recommend you pick a reasonable number that you could live on and not necessarily insure up to the maximum ($11.2K) if you're pulling down $15K/month. One of the three insurers also offers an escalating payout option -- that is, once payouts start they escalate each year -- and I think I would choose that. Ask for a copy of the full policy letter, and read it carefully. Pay close attention to how well the policy tolerates working stints outside Singapore and bouts of unemployment (how long you can be unemployed before coverage lapses) -- these details can matter. You are free to "stack" policies if you wish, i.e. buy some amount of coverage from Carrier A and some amount from Carrier B, as long as the total coverage is still within the 75% "moral hazard" limit. And sometimes it makes sense to do that, actually. Maybe one carrier has a great premium promotion, but you like another carrier's T&Cs better, so you mix some coverage across those two carriers.

Good luck.

My bad! You really seem to know a lot about DII coming from a non-agent. Mistook you for one. Sorry about that. Now that I know about DII, i would definitely be looking at both DII and CI. My job is more niche, so if i do find myself in the position I've previously described, at least i would have monthly income from DII and a lump sum payout from CI to tide me over while I possibly look for the next best alternative (job).

Thanks for the info btw. Really appreciate that.

 

[Jiakbuayba]

Whole Life Plan with ECI

Hello,

Hoping to pick your brains here..

I'm comparing two Whole Life policies, with multiplier and ECI coverage. Main thing I want is the ECI coverage. Comparing the policies below, which would you think is more suitable for a 26 year old female who does not smoke? Have been reading the fine print, but not sure how I should choose the best policy for myself. TIA!

Some considerations:
- Is $50,000 enough as basic sum assured?
- Aviva does not seem to allow claims for early stage heart attack (only specified surgical procedures of the cardiovascular system (cardiac pacemaker insertion, pericardectomy, cardiac defibrillator insertion, cardiomyopathy).
- Aviva offers special benefit claims for 13 conditions vs GE's 7 conditions
- GE waives all premiums upon diagnosis of an ECI, Aviva waives premiums of the ECI rider upon diagnosis of an ECI

Aviva MyWholeLifePlanII:
$100,000 (2x multiplier) till age 70
ECI
~$340/mth

Great Eastern Supreme Early Multiplier
$50,000 (4X multiplier) till age 70
ECI
~$250/mth

$100,000 (3x multiplier) till age 70
ECI
~$417/mth

 

[boredboiboi]

Hello,

Hoping to pick your brains here..

I'm comparing two Whole Life policies, with multiplier and ECI coverage. Main thing I want is the ECI coverage. Comparing the policies below, which would you think is more suitable for a 26 year old female who does not smoke? Have been reading the fine print, but not sure how I should choose the best policy for myself. TIA!

Some considerations:
- Is $50,000 enough as basic sum assured?
- Aviva does not seem to allow claims for early stage heart attack (only specified surgical procedures of the cardiovascular system (cardiac pacemaker insertion, pericardectomy, cardiac defibrillator insertion, cardiomyopathy).
- Aviva offers special benefit claims for 13 conditions vs GE's 7 conditions
- GE waives all premiums upon diagnosis of an ECI, Aviva waives premiums of the ECI rider upon diagnosis of an ECI

Aviva MyWholeLifePlanII:
$100,000 (2x multiplier) till age 70
ECI
~$340/mth

Great Eastern Supreme Early Multiplier
$50,000 (4X multiplier) till age 70
ECI
~$250/mth

$100,000 (3x multiplier) till age 70
ECI
~$417/mth

If in terms of cheapest premium. It might not be this 2, or are you considering only this 2 companies?

And for waive of premiums is not on ECI. Its on CI only. Have not seem any waive on eci, and its an additional rider for premium waiver.

 

[moejoseph]

Hello,

Hoping to pick your brains here..

I'm comparing two Whole Life policies, with multiplier and ECI coverage. Main thing I want is the ECI coverage. Comparing the policies below, which would you think is more suitable for a 26 year old female who does not smoke? Have been reading the fine print, but not sure how I should choose the best policy for myself. TIA!

Some considerations:
- Is $50,000 enough as basic sum assured?
- Aviva does not seem to allow claims for early stage heart attack (only specified surgical procedures of the cardiovascular system (cardiac pacemaker insertion, pericardectomy, cardiac defibrillator insertion, cardiomyopathy).
- Aviva offers special benefit claims for 13 conditions vs GE's 7 conditions
- GE waives all premiums upon diagnosis of an ECI, Aviva waives premiums of the ECI rider upon diagnosis of an ECI

Aviva MyWholeLifePlanII:
$100,000 (2x multiplier) till age 70
ECI
~$340/mth

Great Eastern Supreme Early Multiplier
$50,000 (4X multiplier) till age 70
ECI
~$250/mth

$100,000 (3x multiplier) till age 70
ECI
~$417/mth

If u are open to AXA, let me know. Our premium range around $2600+/year for 2x multiplier ($100k).

Pros will be additional 50% payout for 3 major CI, and TPD is till age 80 (highest)

 

[blurpandasg2014]

Manulife eci should still be most affordable in market? Can check them out

 

[boredboiboi]

Manulife eci should still be most affordable in market? Can check them out

U mean ready completecare? Yes it is still affordable as it comes with free medical check up as well

 

[blurpandasg2014]

U mean ready completecare? Yes it is still affordable as it comes with free medical check up as well

I think is the life ready one

 

[boredboiboi]

I think is the life ready one

Most of the time yes, most affordable but depends if they want manulife