New EC at Sumang Walk

[NiShiZhu]

sorry if I offended anyone.. just sharing my penny of thought.. like I've mentioned before, different ppl will have different opinions.. no right no wrong.. cheers

Don’t be. Some of your points are valid though I may not totally agree with u on everything. If sumang launch at 1200psf, I rather buyers look elsewhere for other PCs with closer price range.?
Most of us here has nothing against property agents.
I’m not sure why some are “allergic” to agents but definitely not me.
If u sprout nonsense and I still buy in your nonsense, I should be the one to be blamed and condemned for not doing my own due diligence.
Being an agent is nothing criminal, we all have families to feed.

 

[Zze121]

To begin with the price war, it start off from Esparina EC in 2010, Quartz as private launched in 2006 which is before Esparina and at a price much lower.

After Esparina, follow by Austville EC, Prive EC, River Parc EC, ATT, Luxurie, Riversound, boat House, Twin Waterfall EC.
At this point, land bidding was 300+ppr for EC and 500+ppr for private next to MRT in D19.

A hype came in 2012, when Watertown launch in Punggol MRT, a mix dev that is a managed mall with land bid at $1b, nobody knows the actual ppr for the resi components, I estimate around 700+, 2mth into launch online speculate their price over 1500psf, that is partially true with only a few units cross that mark before discount, overall their average price was around 1200psf.

Next, Parc Centro bid at lower land price and ppl though it was going to launch at 800 to 900 psf, but it turn out higher, others like Riversail, Heron Bay EC, Lafesta, Jewel continue this hype in D19, until Treasure Crest EC and Rivercove EC in SK hit 1.1k psf.

Point is, where is all this price hike came from? Demands?
Developer land bidding war?
Or because of a mix dev, then in Yishun North Park mix-dev 1400psf didn't really push the price up in that area except for Miltonia.

EC being sandwich segment between DBSS and PC, it's land bid price is becoming a benchmark, for subsidised housing, the loan amount to a buyer combine 14k income, 1.5mil ppty is just beyond what some had pointed out.
This segment itself had elevate from targeting budget buyer, HDB upgrader to the rich parents first timer kids.

 

[annetyu]

Next, Parc Centro bid at lower land price and ppl though it was going to launch at 800 to 900 psf, but it turn out higher, others like Riversail, Heron Bay EC, Lafesta, Jewel continue this hype in D19, until Treasure Crest EC and Rivercove EC in SK hit 1.1k psf.

I believe rivercove avg was $1000psf and treasure crest was lower. 1.1 are outliers from last minute desperate buyers scared of missing the boat because of.... sumang land bid price as how agents have been marketing their projects and how the market is being driven.

 

[NiShiZhu]

To begin with the price war, it start off from Esparina EC in 2010, Quartz as private launched in 2006 which is before Esparina and at a price much lower.

After Esparina, follow by Austville EC, Prive EC, River Parc EC, ATT, Luxurie, Riversound, boat House, Twin Waterfall EC.
At this point, land bidding was 300+ppr for EC and 500+ppr for private next to MRT in D19.

A hype came in 2012, when Watertown launch in Punggol MRT, a mix dev that is a managed mall with land bid at $1b, nobody knows the actual ppr for the resi components, I estimate around 700+, 2mth into launch online speculate their price over 1500psf, that is partially true with only a few units cross that mark before discount, overall their average price was around 1200psf.

Next, Parc Centro bid at lower land price and ppl though it was going to launch at 800 to 900 psf, but it turn out higher, others like Riversail, Heron Bay EC, Lafesta, Jewel continue this hype in D19, until Treasure Crest EC and Rivercove EC in SK hit 1.1k psf.

Point is, where is all this price hike came from? Demands?
Developer land bidding war?
Or because of a mix dev, then in Yishun North Park mix-dev 1400psf didn't really push the price up in that area except for Miltonia.

EC being sandwich segment between DBSS and PC, it's land bid price is becoming a benchmark, for subsidised housing, the loan amount to a buyer combine 14k income, 1.5mil ppty is just beyond what some had pointed out.
This segment itself had elevate from targeting budget buyer, HDB upgrader to the rich parents first timer kids.

Bro, thanks for the detailed summary. Can tell u r very familiar with D19.
Just a minor correction, Parc centros was truely launched starting at 8xxpsf to 9xxpsf. During the launch date, the queue was so long that for buyers buying multiple units, they are given privilege queue. 5 bedders were all sold out and bought by developer’s business associate before actual launch and not a single 5 bedder unit was available for sales during launch day.

Watertown has a weird pricing. Smaller units (1/2 bedder) are priced betw 1kpsf to 1.1xkpsf. Bigger units like 3/4 bedders are priced 1.2-1.3x kpsf. (All these are factored in after the BSD rebate, proximity rebate and furniture voucher rebate). Can see Far East come up with a lot of stunts that time.

Those buying skies Miltonia at 12xxpsf takes years to repent till now. The current resale transaction price is even lower than the time they bought.

 

[annetyu]

I don’t think any welcome an agent here because most want an objective 3rd party view of the project, not another salesman like the ones they seen from the show flat.

In early 2018, I visited a showflat as I was looking for an investment, may or may not be property. First thing before even stepping into the show unit, the agent showed me a map of the high land bid prices and potential new launch prices. They were indeed facts and very very convincing. “Do you think prices will get lower with such land prices?” The agent asked me. Therefore my husband and I almost (thankfully almost) committed to a small 2 bedder as we were afraid prices will really shoot sky high.. Agents are really powerful, even I almost got conned and bought on impulse.. Fortunately we consulted our relatives and did more research and looked at the bigger picture.

 

[Clazav]

The agent must really be good to almost convince you. Many agents made a lot of assumptions, out of courtesy we just acted inexperience and listen to their talk. There are times we got some new insights.

I don’t think any welcome an agent here because most want an objective 3rd party view of the project, not another salesman like the ones they seen from the show flat.

In early 2018, I visited a showflat as I was looking for an investment, may or may not be property. First thing before even stepping into the show unit, the agent showed me a map of the high land bid prices and potential new launch prices. They were indeed facts and very very convincing. “Do you think prices will get lower with such land prices?” The agent asked me. Therefore my husband and I almost (thankfully almost) committed to a small 2 bedder as we were afraid prices will really shoot sky high.. Agents are really powerful, even I almost got conned and bought on impulse.. Fortunately we consulted our relatives and did more research and looked at the bigger picture.

 

[NiShiZhu]

The agent must really be good to almost convince you. Many agents made a lot of assumptions, out of courtesy we just acted inexperience and listen to their talk. There are times we got some new insights.

I believe she may be referring to twin vew.
The agent told me the same story back then. Lol

Another similar story was told by tapestry agent comparing the Tampines court enbloc site (now aka treasure).

 

[Clazav]

Is yishun more exp than woodlands?
Is sengkang more exp than punggol?
Is bedok more exp than tampines?

Still, property prices is more or less based on distance to the city. Even if jurong west transform into a very attractive super modern and smart town, i don't think it can beat jurong east price. Similarly, woodlands is never going to beat upper thomson prices.

Clementi is probably more ex than jurong east. Buona is more ex than clementi and so on.

 

[Zze121]

Bro, thanks for the detailed summary. Can tell u r very familiar with D19.
Just a minor correction, Parc centros was truely launched starting at 8xxpsf to 9xxpsf. During the launch date, the queue was so long that for buyers buying multiple units, they are given privilege queue. 5 bedders were all sold out and bought by developer’s business associate before actual launch and not a single 5 bedder unit was available for sales during launch day.

Watertown has a weird pricing. Smaller units (1/2 bedder) are priced betw 1kpsf to 1.1xkpsf. Bigger units like 3/4 bedders are priced 1.2-1.3x kpsf. (All these are factored in after the BSD rebate, proximity rebate and furniture voucher rebate). Can see Far East come up with a lot of stunts that time.

Those buying skies Miltonia at 12xxpsf takes years to repent till now. The current resale transaction price is even lower than the time they bought.

For Parc Centros, what I state eariler was buyers then were expecting price range 800to900psf, and not more than 900psf, but developer launch on average 987psf which was closing to 1000psf, only 45 units with size 1000~1200sf fall below 900psf and these 45 units on average were 878psf high side of 800 which could be of poor facing, thus it was out of many ppl expectation.


For Watertown, those bigger units which they tagged at 1.4~1.5k psf were those facing waterway and unblock, rest of it no need to mention liao.

 

[Clazav]

Some agents are really nice to talk to. But those who only trying to manipulate you, can ask them to fly kite.

I believe she may be referring to twin vew.
The agent told me the same story back then. Lol

Another similar story was told by tapestry agent comparing the Tampines court enbloc site (now aka treasure).

 

[Zze121]

I believe rivercove avg was $1000psf and treasure crest was lower. 1.1 are outliers from last minute desperate buyers scared of missing the boat because of.... sumang land bid price as how agents have been marketing their projects and how the market is being driven.

Rivercove on average 976psf, 142 units cross 1k psf which is about 23%.
The "river view" could had command such high price.

 

[Zze121]

I don’t think any welcome an agent here because most want an objective 3rd party view of the project, not another salesman like the ones they seen from the show flat.

In early 2018, I visited a showflat as I was looking for an investment, may or may not be property. First thing before even stepping into the show unit, the agent showed me a map of the high land bid prices and potential new launch prices. They were indeed facts and very very convincing. “Do you think prices will get lower with such land prices?” The agent asked me. Therefore my husband and I almost (thankfully almost) committed to a small 2 bedder as we were afraid prices will really shoot sky high.. Agents are really powerful, even I almost got conned and bought on impulse.. Fortunately we consulted our relatives and did more research and looked at the bigger picture.

This kind better go back and think carefully, cos its a million dollar purchase, in the end caveat emptor apply. I believe in doing some research, and that's make our money well spend and wont suffer from insomnia later.

 

[NiShiZhu]

For Parc Centros, what I state eariler was buyers then were expecting price range 800to900psf, and not more than 900psf, but developer launch on average 987psf which was closing to 1000psf, only 45 units with size 1000~1200sf fall below 900psf and these 45 units on average were 878psf high side of 800 which could be of poor facing, thus it was out of many ppl expectation.


For Watertown, those bigger units which they tagged at 1.4~1.5k psf were those facing waterway and unblock, rest of it no need to mention liao.

Yes Parc centros land bid price is Low but I don’t think Parc centros buyers are expecting specifically die die must be below 900psf because Watertown was the project that launch first in 2012 during Chinese New Year crossing the 1.1kpsf bar. Like u have mentioned, some units can hit up to 1.3-1.4kpsf.
That also explains why Parc centros looks cheap when launch during July 2012, just one road away, you get to save at least 300psf. Many who miss the Watertown preview swarm to Parc centros. Not forgetting quite a number of buyers are multiple unit buyers and that’s where they have a separate privilege queue for them.
If u happened to be at Parc centros SF, it just took them less than a week to be completely sold out all the 2,3,4,5 bedders. What is left are mainly the 1 bedder.

Share with u another fun fact, heard that someone queue until fainted on that day and an ambulance came.

 

[annetyu]

Rivercove on average 976psf, 142 units cross 1k psf which is about 23%.
The "river view" could had command such high price.

Exactly, the previous EC was only avg 976psf (alr considered high at that time). Sumang is almost 200psf more which is very hard to reason and digest. CDL was over-bullish with its bid. Unfortunately, powerless buyers have no choice but to accept the price as it is the only EC launch.

Still, they have a choice whether to purchase or not.

My guess it will only be 40% sold on launch weekend unless CDL price it under $1100psf. I still believe in most sinkies. That said, there are 160,000 punggol hdb dwellers so we never know how strong the demand willl be from them.

 

[annetyu]

Is yishun more exp than woodlands?
Is sengkang more exp than punggol?
Is bedok more exp than tampines?

I would say yes, looking at private condo prices. HDB i am not sure as there are a wide range of flats with different remaining leases and locations around each town.

 

[annetyu]

I believe she may be referring to twin vew.
The agent told me the same story back then. Lol

Another similar story was told by tapestry agent comparing the Tampines court enbloc site (now aka treasure).

Seems like you really enjoy window shopping. I love visiting showflats too but I think it is not nice to waste agents' time as I no longer have the intention to buy during this period.

The only showflat I visited after that was the garden residences 2 weeks after launch. The agent seemed very inexperienced and not confident. Showed me some "starbuy" units and I commented it was on a high side. I vaguely remember how he replied but it was along the lines of "prices will only get higher" without any justification.

 

[NiShiZhu]

Seems like you really enjoy window shopping. I love visiting showflats too but I think it is not nice to waste agents' time as I no longer have the intention to buy during this period.

The only showflat I visited after that was the garden residences 2 weeks after launch. The agent seemed very inexperienced and not confident. Showed me some "starbuy" units and I commented it was on a high side. I vaguely remember how he replied but it was along the lines of "prices will only get higher" without any justification.

When Parc reviera was launched 200psf plus cheaper than twin vew, I already know twin vew has not much juice left, despite how convincing the agent may sound, stating the whistler grand plot is bid 20-30% higher, I still won’t fall into his story. By the way, west coast vale location ain’t fantastic either. Garden residence I also visited, same as you have described, my agent don’t sound confident at all. Very likely they also don’t believe in what they are selling.

 

[sgpropertyblog]

Thanks for the pic, looks good. It has to be this standard in order to be worthy of $1150psf.

But be clear, not everything u have said are facts. Even if they are, you avoid giving your clients the full picture. I can see you are trying your best to appear neutral but sorry your bias is still very obvious. I understand why you are behaving this way but don’t do it here.

I’ll be happy if this sells wells since it’s good for my CDL shares. But will be against my principals to say this is value for money and worth $1,200psf. It is an EXECUTIVE condo after all and with so many cheap new resales.

And... very nice advertisement for your website on the photo... that photo is not even yours. Once again shows that you are simply trying to get sales from this forum...

yup, the photos are not mine, its the developer's photo.. im just sharing the photo.. sorry if it sounded like I claimed its my photo..the watermark is mine though..

 

[civicguy]

The killer in EC purchase is the use of MSR rather than TDSR....

the max 75% loan is based on your affordability and income..and not because its EC that's why you cant get max 75% loan.. even for private condo, if your income canot support, you also cant get 75% loan ya.. .

For EC, there is NO ASBD required even though you are still holding on to your current HDB.. this is the only exception as you are required to sign an undertaking letter to sell your HDB within 6 mths upon TOP..

and also for EC, your bank loan still eligible for 75% as its counted as '1st property' even though your current HDB has outstanding loan ( 2nd bank loan in Sg only can loan up to max 45% )

lastly, the resale levy canot run .. pay to government.. bo pien..

 

[LISUN_777]

Some food for thought

I am new here and like to share some personal thoughts from a non-agent perspective, which unfortunately could appear a bit unfavourable and less optimistic:

1. Far far away from the one and probably only one renowned neighbourhood primary school in Punggol (guess you know which one). But, close to some upcoming and brand-new schools.

2. Far away from major public transport hub - Punggol MRT and bus interchange, and commercial hub - waterway point, and Punggol policlinic. But close to LRT, and within walking distance to those hubs (pray for no rain and one can tolerate heat temperature for 20+ min walk in the morning)

3. Far away from the existing food court/hawker centre/wet market,...

4. Far away from existing KPE entrance, but close to TPE and CTE entrance

5. No so-called sea or waterfront view, but indeed waterway view with 10-meter wide.

6. All surrounded by HDB blocks within very close proximity and very busy main roads

7. Good to have the future pipeline of SIT uni and business park and so on, but, presumably and realistically, most students will be local who don't need to rent a room nearby and local employees. Even for foreign employees, Punggol is sure to have more than sufficient HDB rooms to rent at a much cheaper price with easy accessibility to the business park.

8. Beware of the new HDB rules that one can not even apply for new HDB flat (including EC) within their MOP, meaning demand from new BTO upgraders within the last 4-5 years will be largely dented.

9. For others meeting MOP requirement, it's always helpful to guess how many have already moved in all Punggol ECs in the last 5-10 years. Would they further consider upgrading from old EC to new EC?

10. Nonetheless, still, some will be keen to upgrade for sure.

11. Given the 14000 income ceiling, the 30% MSR, and 25% downpayment, as well as the gloomier SG economy and employment outlook, how much average households can afford or dare to afford (both downpayment and monthly instalment).

12. About HDB resale market, no need to mention too much about how challenging it is now to fetch a fairly good price as a major means to pay EC downpayment for most BTO upgraders. That means you really need to consume quite a bit your savings to buy EC.

A bit of thought so far for further discussions.